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But they count as jinking. So almost any of your shots without ignores cover will be laughed off.

 Jambles wrote:

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Can DA shoot after Turbo boosting?


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*RW

Not in the same turn, but the next turn they get to shoot without having to snapshoot.

But only if the turbo boosted turn 1. They do not get the benefit from turbo boosting in subsequent turns.

Hee... they only need it one turn .

Take farsight and his 7 generic buddies. Give a commander or one of the bodyguard the ignore cover twin/linked signature systems and vectored retro thrusters for HnR. Load up on shield drones. If you want to you can add shadowsun for stealth and shrouded - also consider getting a farsight enclave commander for the warscaper drone for move through cover.

Markerlights can ignore cover... A smart player will use every ap 2-1 weapon for that. So a riptide or hammerhead with ion cannon with have fun with the Markerlights support. So try to kill Markerlights support first if you can.

peirceg wrote:
Take farsight and his 7 generic buddies. Give a commander or one of the bodyguard the ignore cover twin/linked signature systems and vectored retro thrusters for HnR. Load up on shield drones. If you want to you can add shadowsun for stealth and shrouded - also consider getting a farsight enclave commander for the warscaper drone for move through cover.

You can't add Farsight and Shadowsun in the same army...

Mavnas wrote:

peirceg wrote:
Take farsight and his 7 generic buddies. Give a commander or one of the bodyguard the ignore cover twin/linked signature systems and vectored retro thrusters for HnR. Load up on shield drones. If you want to you can add shadowsun for stealth and shrouded - also consider getting a farsight enclave commander for the warscaper drone for move through cover.

You can't add Farsight and Shadowsun in the same army...

Yes you can, you just can't take shadowsun in a farsight enclaves army

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Markerlights can ignore cover... A smart player will use every ap 2-1 weapon for that. So a riptide or hammerhead with ion cannon with have fun with the Markerlights support. So try to kill Markerlights support first if you can.

assuming both lists are taloring vs each other - the DA have the edge I think - because they have to tools to remove all the marker lights on the table on the first turn with WW, LS with TML, and interceptor to ward off the deep strike retaliation.

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Markerlights can ignore cover... A smart player will use every ap 2-1 weapon for that. So a riptide or hammerhead with ion cannon with have fun with the Markerlights support. So try to kill Markerlights support first if you can.

Hammerhead's IC is only AP3

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Markerlights can ignore cover... A smart player will use every ap 2-1 weapon for that. So a riptide or hammerhead with ion cannon with have fun with the Markerlights support. So try to kill Markerlights support first if you can.

assuming both lists are taloring vs each other - the DA have the edge I think - because they have to tools to remove all the marker lights on the table on the first turn with WW, LS with TML, and interceptor to ward off the deep strike retaliation.

this. If both list are tailored , then the WW (if you have 1) will be the bane of the Pathfinders. Unless for some reason he has some marker drone squads, the WW will shut out his markerlight support.


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 Vector Strike wrote:

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Markerlights can ignore cover... A smart player will use every ap 2-1 weapon for that. So a riptide or hammerhead with ion cannon with have fun with the Markerlights support. So try to kill Markerlights support first if you can.

Hammerhead's IC is only AP3

Oh that is right, Well that will still be good enough to ignore the armour. if he runs an unbound list...he could have some Skyrays , which will be good ML support and harder to kill.

Bikes will not enjoy Ion Cannon armed Hammerheads backed by markerlights, let me tell you that much.

Nor will they enjoy a hail of fire from ethereal sniper drones. "what cover save? I'm not passing your armor anyhow. now roll 12532 saves."

Buffmander and his unit don't need lights and can shoot multiple targets. Heck, they could have markerdrones shooting at the main target and all the guns shooting at other targets.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Bikes will not enjoy Ion Cannon armed Hammerheads backed by markerlights, let me tell you that much.

Nor will they enjoy a hail of fire from ethereal sniper drones. "what cover save? I'm not passing your armor anyhow. now roll 12532 saves."

You have how many units with marker lights? 3? Not even that?

Sniper drones seem so broken to me but you rarely ever see them.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Sniper drones seem so broken to me but you rarely ever see them.

because Heavy Support has Sky Ray, which is much better. Sniper Drones have the same problem Stealth Suits have - they're not exactly bad, but the competition in the same FoC slot is damaging to them.

The Decurion-style Tau FoC will alleviate things.

Sniper drones put out so many shots plus they can rend. I always fear to see them across the table.

I hope Tau get some good things when their new codex drops.

peirceg wrote:
Take farsight and his 7 generic buddies. Give a commander or one of the bodyguard the ignore cover twin/linked signature systems and vectored retro thrusters for HnR. Load up on shield drones. If you want to you can add shadowsun for stealth and shrouded - also consider getting a farsight enclave commander for the warscaper drone for move through cover.

Very inneffective if he goes for min units with max weapons and I can only target one before he wipes the only unit that matters (a 7 body guard unit is like 700pts with farsight and then add in the commander with buffs for 800pts)

Putting that many points in one unit in a shooty army is..... well.... no


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 Vector Strike wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Sniper drones seem so broken to me but you rarely ever see them.

because Heavy Support has Sky Ray, which is much better. Sniper Drones have the same problem Stealth Suits have - they're not exactly bad, but the competition in the same FoC slot is damaging to them.

The Decurion-style Tau FoC will alleviate things.

Also has broadsides . Broadsides and Riprides if when you add them together it doesn't equal 7-8 you're going to lose against someone good

And about the new book in a few months I hope they drop the costs on things like they have universally for most armies. Drones are a little costly for what they do and they should be fearless since they are not capable of experiencing fear


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The answer is to take a lot of SMS I guess. They can pop everything DA has that can jink

I am happy something like Ravenwing has forced change. Back when the 1st Tau codex came out, it was all about mobility and using mixed forces to wear down the opponent. I have 3 Riptides you lose kinda crap made me stop playing Tau. I will revamp my force now that it is fun again. With all that being said, Tau still have more than a fighting chance against Ravenwing, but there isn't an easy auto-win solution.

I am really looking at Kroot as part of the answer. Ravenwing are most dangerous in the 2nd turn. Use the Kroot to screen your more valuable units, DO NOT charge, force your opponent to always waste their turn charging - after all, you will lose, but it takes another turn away from their shooting and charging. Pay the tiny price for sniper rounds so that the Kroot are a threat that forces your opponent to respond or risk taking casualties. Vespids actually have a very important value for the first time, between their mobility, stealth in ruins (3+ cover), and their ap 3 str 5 guns, meaning space marine bikes will be forced to jink if shot at and will have to chase if they want to eliminate them. Similarly, Devilfish transports can be used as line of sight/path of charge blockers, delaying units, or objective grabbers. Detach all the drones from your vehicles to grab objectives, block charges, etc. Meanwhile, deepstrike your crisis suits to get behind the enemy line and make use of the superior range of missile pods, railguns, etc to force your opponent to either ignore you or dedicate their expensive units to chase. Use drones to bring down the majority armor save in crisis teams to minimize the impact of grav guns and use shield drones to force them to waste shots. The goal will be to bleed the enemy dry and wear them down over turns.

Point being, a mixed Tau force, rather than a spam army, will be the most effective. It's all about board control, and Tau have the mobility to contend with every army.

Had a against WS using this list that I just kind of threw together last minute.

Farsight Enclaves - 1166

* Darkstrider - 100

* XV104 Riptide - 238
Heavy burst cannon, Twin-linked fusion blaster, Fusion blaster, Advanced targeting system, Earth caste pilot array, Early warning override, Velocity tracker

* XV8 Crisis Team - 156
3x Target lock, Plasma rifle, Flamer, Bonding knife ritual
1x Marker drone

* 2x 1 XV8 Crisis Team - 86
Twin- linked missile pods, Bonding knife ritual

* Fire Warrior Team - 132
12 Fire Warriors, Pulse carbines, EMP grenades, Bonding knife ritual

* 2x 1 Tetra Scout Speeder Team - 110
Disruption pod, High intensity markerlight, Homing beacon, Sensor spines, Twin-linked pulse rifles, Targeting array

* Sniper Drone Team - 84
3 Sniper Drones, 3 Farsight Marksmen

* 2x 1 Skyray Missile Defense Gunship - 260
Twin-linked Smart missile system, 6 Seeker missiles, 2 Networked marker lights, Disruption pod, Velocity tracker

Firebase Support Cadre Formation - 681
(Bane of Angels, Tank Hunters)

* XV104 Riptide - 213
Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked smart missile system, Advanced targeting system, Early warning override, Velocity tracker

* 2x XV88 Broadside Team - 468
3x Broadside Shas'ui
Broadside battlesuit, Twin-linked heavy rail rifle, Twin-linked smart missile system, Early warning override
2 Shield drone

There is nothing extraordinary about it but it did well vs a bike list. It had just about the right mix of marker drones and dakka and enough disposable units to slow the bikers down. Overall it was a decent list considering it is really designed to take down FMCs and counter drop pods.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Detach all the drones from your vehicles to grab objectives

A unit entirely composed of drones cannot capture objectives. The devilfish can, on the other hand.

How long does fw usually take to remove experimental tags from units like the yvarna

gungo wrote:
How long does fw usually take to remove experimental tags from units like the yvarna

Experimental rules and units usually get included into next army codex or army related book. We are hearing rumors of new Tau codex coming soon, so there is our chance!

I heard Tau has been pushed back.

Well, we just have to sit tight and keep those RavenWing bikes under pressurized blast markers!

Smart missile systems anyone????? ignores cover? no line of sight? who cares if he has 3+ armour, throw enough wounds his way and he WILL fail some of those saves.

gungo wrote:How long does fw usually take to remove experimental tags from units like the yvarna

IA14, next year. Probably by spring.

jackflashultra wrote:Smart missile systems anyone????? ignores cover? no line of sight? who cares if he has 3+ armour, throw enough wounds his way and he WILL fail some of those saves.

The problem is that basically all of our SMS sources aren't that mobile - Hammerheads, Sky Rays and Broadsides. Riptides are an exception, but they're costier than all the other options. Missile Pods do the same thing as SMS and Wound on 2+. Ravenwing won't jink, as even jinking they'll be forced to use the 3+ anyway, and Missile Pods have much better sources than SMS.

Tau must be able to beat an army that will be totally up in there grill second turn.

I've played against a semi-competitive ravenwing army twice (as in he was taking it to a smaller local tournament). So it was reasonable decent but likely not super optimized.

I play a more mobile/non-gun line tau. Here are the main things I leaned. Smart missile systems are the best unsupported (non-marker light) gun in your army. They utterly eat through his armor 10 vehicles that rely on jinking to not die. Double tapping with your riptide's nova charge can be awesome.

Skyrays do work. They have marker lights to ignore cover and a SMS which will always be doing work. With a little set-up (if you can hit the enemy with two marker lights from another source then use the network markerlights, and don't move) you can lob a barrage of bs 5 str 8 ap 3 ignore cover missiles into a squad. It'll ruin that squads day.

Make things jink as much as possible. The armies shooting isn't all that scary if they're jinking.

Their models are annoying hard to kill, but they also don't have the model numbers to take significant loses. You can lose multiple squads in exchange for only one of theirs and have it be very worth while. Tarpit models without good CC with kroot or riptides. You don't need to win combat, just the longer you don't lose the more you can win fights elsewhere. Sometimes sacrifices need to be made for the greater good.

My opponents backfield was often only scouts and a hiding psyker. During the games I often Completely sacrificed my backfield to kill his and won via more objective secured troops on objectives than he did.

TLDR:
- bring more Smart missiles systems
- skyrays can do work
- you can sustain more casualties than he can, don't let seemingly greater numerical loses hurt your morale
- might have a weaker backline you can exploit if you're mobile enough
- keep him jinking

materpillar wrote:
I've played against a semi-competitive ravenwing army twice (as in he was taking it to a smaller local tournament). So it was reasonable decent but likely not super optimized.

I play a more mobile/non-gun line tau. Here are the main things I leaned. Smart missile systems are the best unsupported (non-marker light) gun in your army. They utterly eat through his armor 10 vehicles that rely on jinking to not die. Double tapping with your riptide's nova charge can be awesome.

Skyrays do work. They have marker lights to ignore cover and a SMS which will always be doing work. With a little set-up (if you can hit the enemy with two marker lights from another source then use the network markerlights, and don't move) you can lob a barrage of bs 5 str 8 ap 3 ignore cover missiles into a squad. It'll ruin that squads day.

Make things jink as much as possible. The armies shooting isn't all that scary if they're jinking.

Their models are annoying hard to kill, but they also don't have the model numbers to take significant loses. You can lose multiple squads in exchange for only one of theirs and have it be very worth while. Tarpit models without good CC with kroot or riptides. You don't need to win combat, just the longer you don't lose the more you can win fights elsewhere. Sometimes sacrifices need to be made for the greater good.

My opponents backfield was often only scouts and a hiding psyker. During the games I often Completely sacrificed my backfield to kill his and won via more objective secured troops on objectives than he did.

TLDR:
- bring more Smart missiles systems
- skyrays can do work
- you can sustain more casualties than he can, don't let seemingly greater numerical loses hurt your morale
- might have a weaker backline you can exploit if you're mobile enough
- keep him jinking

I'm going to get 1 turn of shooting. Period. (Thanks to flat out rule) forced to jink or not. You can bet your buttons I'll be close enough. And please, please shoot your missiles at my lovely 80pt dark shrouds. I have 2-3 in a 1500pt game, I just need one to live.. After that turn of shooting, my army Assaults your line, then, on your turn, you can't shoot, I hit and run out, shoot, charge in again. Rinse repeat.

With Tau you want to have an MSU firebase and the rest of your force will be aggressively DSing in, both denying the DA many of their charges on high value targets and allowing the Tau to hit from a distance. Flamers, missile pods, plasma are your friends, pretty much standard fare for tau troops anyway.

Yeah your firebase will go down if you do not divide it up and spread it out but most of your drop troops should inflict heavy casualties. Also allows you to hit the small DA back field if there is one. Throw in sniper drone, stealth marker teams, buffmanders to remove the cover saves.