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Print the warscrolls.....

 sfshilo wrote:
Print the warscrolls.....

I'd rather have small well made cards. Like the old Magic Decks :-)

I used an iPad mini to scroll through the scrolls, but I find it takes time.

My first game this morning was a rather small one; 10 HE Spearmen, 10 Archers and a mounted Prince vs a Warlord and 2x10 Clanrats. 3 Warscrolls a side just to see how balanced that was (surprisingly, actually!). I did keep forgetting to roll priority each turn (an unusual mistake for someone who's played LotR for 10+ years) but even with just alternating turns things kept moving fast.

The thing that really stood out was heroes. Between their abilities and increased general tank-ness they really do feel like mighty warriors and commanders, rather than just bunkered beatsticks. The unit abilities too add a lot, even if some might seem a tad over the top.

Overall, I like it. A lot.

simple, fun, freedoomistic (not a word)

it got me back into tabletop gaming is what it did...

 Paradigm wrote:
My first game this morning was a rather small one; 10 HE Spearmen, 10 Archers and a mounted Prince vs a Warlord and 2x10 Clanrats. 3 Warscrolls a side just to see how balanced that was (surprisingly, actually!). I did keep forgetting to roll priority each turn (an unusual mistake for someone who's played LotR for 10+ years) but even with just alternating turns things kept moving fast.

The thing that really stood out was heroes. Between their abilities and increased general tank-ness they really do feel like mighty warriors and commanders, rather than just bunkered beatsticks. The unit abilities too add a lot, even if some might seem a tad over the top.

Overall, I like it. A lot.

Wow! Totally missed that rule! We played IGOUGO as well. Can't wait to try out this rule too :-)

 Bottle wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Print the warscrolls.....

I'd rather have small well made cards. Like the old Magic Decks :-)

I used an iPad mini to scroll through the scrolls, but I find it takes time.

You can export pdf pages as images and make a pdf just for your army. Should be much easier to flip through 4-6 pages than the whole compendium. : ) Not sure if regular reader allows for that, but I know the free PDF X-Change Viewer does (it's also great for marking documents and making highlights and whatnot).

[edit] That's what I am going to do, because I always extensively use my iPad while gaming - it's just very convenient to have it all on one device along with my quartermaster army lists.

 Klerych wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Print the warscrolls.....

I'd rather have small well made cards. Like the old Magic Decks :-)

I used an iPad mini to scroll through the scrolls, but I find it takes time.

You can export pdf pages as images and make a pdf just for your army. Should be much easier to flip through 4-6 pages than the whole compendium. : ) Not sure if regular reader allows for that, but I know the free PDF X-Change Viewer does (it's also great for marking documents and making highlights and whatnot).

[edit] That's what I am going to do, because I always extensively use my iPad while gaming - it's just very convenient to have it all on one device along with my quartermaster army lists.

What I did do was bookmark all the units I was playing with, because you can view only bookmarked pages too.

I still want buyable cards though ;-)

 Bottle wrote:


I still want buyable cards though ;-)

Totally understandable - cards make everything oh so much easier - just look at WarmaHordes, X-Wing or WarZone Resurrection - all the info conveniently stored on a couple cards that you can keep on the table with no problem.

If this was X-Wing forums, someone would have already posted a printable version of hand-made unit cards based off those warscrolls. Those guys are really creative when it comes to such stuff!

Profile Cards would be awesome. I might make myself some.

I didnt play a "real" game. It was 4 of us on a 4x4 each taking one corner for deployment. We each put out one unit of X models, sometimes with Heroes. When the unit died we put out a new, different unit. Free for all. My first turn I ran my Doomfire warlocks 20" straight at a Bloodthirster. It turned out like I figured it would, badly. But it was all for fun and getting familiar with the game as a whole.

Things I noticed:
Heroes can be amazing.

Big/monstrous creatures really feel like the power house models they are. I think the best part about these particular models is that as they take more wounds, they get weaker.

Charges and attacks make or break the units. Shooting is strong but getting in close is where its at. I had a Fleetmaster hold up a unit of White Lions for 2 turns while my Darkshards shot the hell out of them. Because the Fleetmaster is a unit of one model he never had to take a Battleshock test while the White Lions did (only lost 2 models to that sadly).

Remembering magic happens at the start of the turn, before Movement. Magic is really simple, choose a spell throw 2 dice and see if you cast. Same for countering

We did have one discussion that I brought up via my Corsairs and that is if you can mix and match equipment in a single unit. Corsairs can have 2 hand weapons or one hand weapon and 1 crossbow, but there's nothing I saw that says you cant have a mix of both in a single unit. We ruled it 2 different units.

by the way, there will be profile cards in the new miniatures released...

I despise that they removed any customization with characters. My best memories are of creating a super killy doombull...

i am TERRIBLE at Magic Set Editor, but if someone can make a Card for it I'd love you!

Played two games with the starter set. One with each force. Really enjoyed the mechanics but wish I could do more with magic and customisation.

The special rules for most units are fun. Cant wait to try dragon ogres!

Overall I prefer 8th but see this as a fun alternative

I had an excellent game this afternoon using high elves and Skaven. Warp lightning seemed good, poison wind mortar was excellent. The clan rats were also decent untill they were charged in the rear by E Reavers - 10 died on the spot and a further ten fled during the battle shock phase. NOTE: If your taking a chunky unit with low bravery, find a way to keep some inspiring presence effect around.

Best moment was watching my eldest lad fail a charge from 4 inches -hilarious

other interesting rules the E reavers can move 16 inches, shoot 3 times, move 2xd6, charge 2xd6 and then pile in! I experienced this when they moved killed my engineer with their bows, moved again and then charged another unit, moving a total of about 32 inches in one turn.

Deportivodeej wrote:
I had an excellent game this afternoon using high elves and Skaven. Warp lightning seemed good, poison wind mortar was excellent. The clan rats were also decent untill they were charged in the rear by E Reavers - 10 died on the spot and a further ten fled during the battle shock phase. NOTE: If your taking a chunky unit with low bravery, find a way to keep some inspiring presence effect around.

Best moment was watching my eldest lad fail a charge from 4 inches -hilarious

other interesting rules the E reavers can move 16 inches, shoot 3 times, move 2xd6, charge 2xd6 and then pile in! I experienced this when they moved killed my engineer with their bows, moved again and then charged another unit, moving a total of about 32 inches in one turn.

We forgot this when I played, but for every 10 models in a unit you add 1 to their bravery. Skaven and other hoardy armies shouldnt have too much trouble with bravery, at the start at least.

The E Reavers beat up my Corsairs with their move, shoot, move. He rolled kinda crappy on his 2d6 move so I was able to close the gap and charge him anyway

- list building is actually quite fun, since it is can be a mutual balance between friends, figuring out what balances out what

- there are a variety of ways to pick your army - W's, Warscrolls, eyeball test, etc. But my friend suggested like a blind bidding system where you keep fielding units of any size until you decide to stop (essentially the RAW), regardless of what your opponent brings, but presume your opponent has equal access to powerful units. I.e. If you go first and field Karl Franz. opponent deploys next and decided to bust out his 40 Corsairs in response to Karl Franz. This is a very interesting way to play, imo, but only if you both have the same level of army

- the rules are simple, the game is essentially point and click. But the point and click aspect (who to charge, what units to attack first in CC, etc) is quite complex and strategic

- LOVE the new simple "magic phase". Just...absolutely love it. Not game-breaking and random at all like 8E (which I actually kinda liked), but just enough to make a difference in the game

- love that you can move and shoot w/o penalty, move backwards then charge, shoot then charge etc. More fluid move flexibility between the phases is just so awesome, imo

- back to point 1, while I appreciate balanced/comp'd list building like in every wargame out there (well, 99%), again building a list now is so much more fun. You and your buddy can just eyeball what each other picking and kinda of regulate each other. "is my unit of 20 Minotaurs equal to you 30 Ironbreakers?" "well, if I add a Grudge Thrower" "hmm...okay"

- I cannot WAIT to see the new models for the new factions. I'm guessing they'll all be bigger in size, ala the new Celestials and Chaos. This is sort of the "natural" way to limit what is fielded (by taking up more board space)

edit:
- oh and now every unit actually seems to be fairly decent to use

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
- list building is actually quite fun, since it is can be a mutual balance between friends, figuring out what balances out what

- there are a variety of ways to pick your army - W's, Warscrolls, eyeball test, etc. But my friend suggested like a blind bidding system where you keep fielding units of any size until you decide to stop (essentially the RAW), regardless of what your opponent brings, but presume your opponent has equal access to powerful units. I.e. If you go first and field Karl Franz. opponent deploys next and decided to bust out his 40 Corsairs in response to Karl Franz. This is a very interesting way to play, imo, but only if you both have the same level of army

- the rules are simple, the game is essentially point and click. But the point and click aspect (who to charge, what units to attack first in CC, etc) is quite complex and strategic

- LOVE the new simple "magic phase". Just...absolutely love it. Not game-breaking and random at all like 8E (which I actually kinda liked), but just enough to make a difference in the game

- love that you can move and shoot w/o penalty, move backwards then charge, shoot then charge etc. More fluid move flexibility between the phases is just so awesome, imo

- back to point 1, while I appreciate balanced/comp'd list building like in every wargame out there (well, 99%), again building a list now is so much more fun. You and your buddy can just eyeball what each other picking and kinda of regulate each other. "is my unit of 20 Minotaurs equal to you 30 Ironbreakers?" "well, if I add a Grudge Thrower" "hmm...okay"

- I cannot WAIT to see the new models for the new factions. I'm guessing they'll all be bigger in size, ala the new Celestials and Chaos. This is sort of the "natural" way to limit what is fielded (by taking up more board space)

edit:
- oh and now every unit actually seems to be fairly decent to use

Besides the fact we have FOUR MONTHS of releases in a row for this game. Imagine the things we will see? I for one am stoked about the supposed new Tomb Kings bone giant waiting for release. Also the fact that people will discuss list building now more then ever quite possibly as there are zero limitations, even cross faction.

 ToxicBox wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
- list building is actually quite fun, since it is can be a mutual balance between friends, figuring out what balances out what

- there are a variety of ways to pick your army - W's, Warscrolls, eyeball test, etc. But my friend suggested like a blind bidding system where you keep fielding units of any size until you decide to stop (essentially the RAW), regardless of what your opponent brings, but presume your opponent has equal access to powerful units. I.e. If you go first and field Karl Franz. opponent deploys next and decided to bust out his 40 Corsairs in response to Karl Franz. This is a very interesting way to play, imo, but only if you both have the same level of army

- the rules are simple, the game is essentially point and click. But the point and click aspect (who to charge, what units to attack first in CC, etc) is quite complex and strategic

- LOVE the new simple "magic phase". Just...absolutely love it. Not game-breaking and random at all like 8E (which I actually kinda liked), but just enough to make a difference in the game

- love that you can move and shoot w/o penalty, move backwards then charge, shoot then charge etc. More fluid move flexibility between the phases is just so awesome, imo

- back to point 1, while I appreciate balanced/comp'd list building like in every wargame out there (well, 99%), again building a list now is so much more fun. You and your buddy can just eyeball what each other picking and kinda of regulate each other. "is my unit of 20 Minotaurs equal to you 30 Ironbreakers?" "well, if I add a Grudge Thrower" "hmm...okay"

- I cannot WAIT to see the new models for the new factions. I'm guessing they'll all be bigger in size, ala the new Celestials and Chaos. This is sort of the "natural" way to limit what is fielded (by taking up more board space)

edit:
- oh and now every unit actually seems to be fairly decent to use

Besides the fact we have FOUR MONTHS of releases in a row for this game. Imagine the things we will see? I for one am stoked about the supposed new Tomb Kings bone giant waiting for release. Also the fact that people will discuss list building now more then ever quite possibly as there are zero limitations, even cross faction.

I'm eager to see the new Orks and Grots. I remember reading a rumor that they'll be more "realistic" ala the LotR Orcs. Also, it will be interesting to see if all models get up to the heroic scale. The Stormcast Eternal - model and base - absolutely dwarfs a state trooper or elf. If that's the new standard, it'll be fun to see in a year or 2 all the new models.

Releases should start getting very interesting in about two weeks, after the scenery is out

 Bottle wrote:

1. In our first game we played about 50-80 models a side and it took AGES! We gave up after 3 turns to play a smaller game.

2. Combats become big multiple combat messes really quickly. With everyone making pile in moves all over the place. (We were playing 2x4ft that didn't help!)

3. Using dice to track slain models for later battleshock was a nightmare, in the second game we left dead models on their side for a turn and this made it much easier.

4. 30-40 models a side seems a great amount. Our second game was really fun.

5. The slowest part of the rules is flicking through warscrolls all day long. I really hope they make a deck of cards with them all printed on!

8. The more characters the more fun imo. Herohammer here I come!

I will agree that the while some units get bonuses to being 20+, the game still seems to be best at something comparable to 1500~2000pts in 8E.

Also, yeah, I ended up using models as Battleshock counters (I may need some other counters for the fact some of my Empire units can get like 4 buffs...).

And yes, CC's turn to a big mess, but I kinda liked it. The unit by unit rotating player part adds a lot of strategy on who you want to attack and when.

And while someone else suggested you to print the Warscrolls (which is what I did), individual Warscroll copies coming w/ the new models would still be kinda nice. But I wont fault GW if they dont do it and just let players print their own.

Nice and streamlined. Has some downsides like that is is hard to balance and we lost item customisation for characters.
Especially when some units have greatly changed.
All units are viable as you now try to balance by yourself.
Tried one game except for demo at GW. They talked about balancing by no. of wounds. But I didn't do that for my game. Went more by feeling. As 1 clanrats is not equal a Quareller.
Skaven vs Dwarves.

60 clanrats - they seem about right but the problem of balancing them to other 1W infantry has to be done.
20 Stormvermin
20 Plaugemonks - these dudes changed flavour with no more T their half defining characteristic was gone. No more though skaven. Just a sick ( in both senses) rat. Same amount of wounds but so much stronger than a clanrat.
5 Gutterrunners - Can charge turn 1 from flanking with a lucky roll.
1 warlord
1 Warlok engineer
1 Doomwheel - intressting but never made it to combat.
1 ratling gun - so sad that their old mechanic is gone. It was so cool. But now they are atleast much stronger.
1 mortar - weak
1 warp fire thrower - intressting and well balanced.

Dwarves
1 Runelord.
1 cannon, 1 Grudge thrower, 1 Organ gun -
war machines have changed a lot! You can crewsnipe which make them even more fragile. And their power has plummeted. Save for the organ gun. Feels like a guardsman heavy weapon team. Cannon is a lascannon and stone thrower a single shot auto cannon. Especially the thrower feels underwhelming. The organ gun jammed the entire game so can't say much about it. But looking at rules it feels like the artillery that still is powerful enough to be called artillery. The others are more like a bigger version of a single rng weapon. So during balancing a thrower shouldn't cost anything significant.
20 dwarves warriors 2H weapon. - like quarrellers minus the rng attack, the refill to saves and +1 to wound. I am glad I have more quarrellers than warriors....
32 Quarellers - holy gak they are strong. With no more modifiers to shooting and the ability to shoot twice if 20+ makes these guys dangerous. On top of that they can move and shoot. These guys killed everything they looked at. Very different from the ineffective shooting of previous edition. A it want until they were outnumbered 2 to 1, caught in CC and the rats were affected by buffs that they went down. Almost cleaning a flank by themselves.
10 dudes with drakefiregun? - holy gak. These are why you can't balance by wounds. A meagre 10 guys killed everything they fired at. Doomwheel? Stormvermin? Nope they wipe em.

Total wounds. Total models
Skaven: 125~. 106~
Dwarves. 100~. 70~

Minor victory to skaven. If the organ gun hadn't jammed it might been a different story. Decently balanced. Just a little too much skaven and monks are underrated.
My 2 cents so far.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

1. In our first game we played about 50-80 models a side and it took AGES! We gave up after 3 turns to play a smaller game.

2. Combats become big multiple combat messes really quickly. With everyone making pile in moves all over the place. (We were playing 2x4ft that didn't help!)

3. Using dice to track slain models for later battleshock was a nightmare, in the second game we left dead models on their side for a turn and this made it much easier.

4. 30-40 models a side seems a great amount. Our second game was really fun.

5. The slowest part of the rules is flicking through warscrolls all day long. I really hope they make a deck of cards with them all printed on!

8. The more characters the more fun imo. Herohammer here I come!

I will agree that the while some units get bonuses to being 20+, the game still seems to be best at something comparable to 1500~2000pts in 8E.

Also, yeah, I ended up using models as Battleshock counters (I may need some other counters for the fact some of my Empire units can get like 4 buffs...).

And yes, CC's turn to a big mess, but I kinda liked it. The unit by unit rotating player part adds a lot of strategy on who you want to attack and when.

And while someone else suggested you to print the Warscrolls (which is what I did), individual Warscroll copies coming w/ the new models would still be kinda nice. But I wont fault GW if they dont do it and just let players print their own.

1500-2000 points of Empire is usually 100+ models.

My second game of AoS consisted of:
- 2 units of 10 Swordsman
- 5 Outriders
- 1 cannon
- 1 General on Foot
- 1 Bright Wizard

I felt this was a good size for an AoS army, maybe 10 more RnF and 2-3 more characters. (keeping it to under 50)

Not even 1000 points of 8E, I love it! :-D

I played my first two games today. Both times I stopped deploying first to get first turn and ended up with Sudden Death. Both games I won because of Sudden Death.

I flanked (figuratively, rather than rule wise) to get Assassination and in the second game I used the ability to shoot out of combat to get Blunt.

Blunt nearly ended the game on turn 1 alone.

Further quick fire thoughts:
- I need to print my warscrolls
- Set up is super quick and simple
- Stopping deploying first to go first is a nice trade-off
- All models are useful (I finally played Masque of Slaanesh and she was top)
- Minimal chart checking
- Monsters getting weaker is neat
- A lot of 4+ then 4+ then 5+
- Shooting into and out of combat is vital
- Spells are simple and powerful. My Tzeentch Herald took out a Dwarf Lord in one phase (fire cast on a 10, enabled me to use the tome for 3D6 to do 1D6 more mortal wounds).
- Commands are, again, simple and powerful
- The first game with more models wasn't as fun
- Not sure of what the optimal table size is (appears like 4x4)
- Still concerned about turn 2 pile-in; thankfully this wasn't as heavy in game two
- Measuring from any point of a model wasn't an issue
- Units getting a bonus at 20+ models worked as a trade-off (as that caused me to get SD in the second game)
- Heroes can run around solo and feel important; they also act as buffs for light infantry units
- Rolling off who goes first from turn two on wards had us both holding our breath for those rolls

Overall, quick and fun. Played two games with learning rules in three hours. Might actually get other friends to learn and play it (no way they'd touch Oldhammer or 40k).

I don't play "competitively" so won't comment on that.

EDIT: There's something rather RTS about it...
EDIT 2: And we house ruled the "silly" rules (A you get, B you don't). It's a shame some of them are male centric, whilst none are female. So we'll ignore them. I also haven't seen any such rules for the new models.

Played my 1st AoS game earlier tonight.

1. I totally agree this game seems optimally scaled for like 30 to 40 models, with everything in a melee mosh pit in the end

2. The game shifted from maneuvering units, to them interacting with commands, buffs, debuffs on enemies, etc.

3. I believe it'll be Herohammer due to that shift, very character-driven, possibly very narrative-driven as an indirect result

4. I really like how the basic rules are so streamlined, with special rules associated with the unit and its warsheet, much more fun

5. It feels more dynamic, more fast-paced, but mechanics like Shooting which can still be done in melee needs to be looked at

---

If I were to summarise my description of AoS, I'd call it Role Playing Strategy, a piece of jargon Warcraft 3 used, but it's kinda how it feels.

At the moment, and I'll need more games to confirm this, it seems like a really good framework for most armies will have something like this:

- 1 multi-model unit with lots of models (rather than multiple units with fewer models) to benefit from Commands (which usually affect just 1 unit)

- many Hero models who are not only great in their own right, but provide all sorts of buffs in the Hero phase or with area effect buffs

- then maybe some artillery units to provide some heavy support at range, especially since apparently you can fire on enemies locked in melee

These are my 1st impressions. I'll probably realise I'm wrong later, but after playing a game, this is what I feel.

 Bottle wrote:

1500-2000 points of Empire is usually 100+ models.

maybe if you go hordes of State Troops?

For one AoS game, I/we went Volkmar, Wizard, WAlter, 20 Greatswords and 4 DGKs in a game. I'm guessing that's probably ~1250pts (I dont have Army Builder on me) and I considered it about "average" size for AoS. And that's only 27 models... You can easily eyeball 1500pts w/o going over 50 models. And I'd say 50 models is just around "a lot" by AoS standards.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

1500-2000 points of Empire is usually 100+ models.

maybe if you go hordes of State Troops?

For one AoS game, I/we went Volkmar, Wizard, WAlter, 20 Greatswords and 4 DGKs in a game. I'm guessing that's probably ~1250pts (I dont have Army Builder on me) and I considered it about "average" size for AoS. And that's only 27 models... You can easily eyeball 1500pts w/o going over 50 models. And I'd say 50 models is just around "a lot" by AoS standards.

Yes, it depends on how many state troops etc, your listed army there is very elite.

I will agree that this game is definitely designed for under 50 models.