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Thanks!

I'm really confused as to who this is marketed towards. It doesn't seem like it would be appealing to old or new players, as the models still cost a lot and old players are upset at all the lore and rule changes. It just does not seem to be economically viable.

I never wanted to get into Fantasy (I've played 40k for years) because if it was just as complicated as 40k, but I'd also have to buy $$$ worth of new models, I wasn't going to.

Now that the rules are "easy", I might pick some up. Even though the models are just as expensive, now that the rules are "easy" I feel like there's not that big of a barrier to entry any more.

EDIT: I know that I'll catch some flak for this, but I hope that they "dumb down" 40k into the Age of Ultramar or something.

Kids. Simple as that. The game has a very low and almost flat learning curve, which makes it great to pick up. It will not be able to interest people for the long run, but that's now that it's supposed to do.

ziggurattt wrote:
I never wanted to get into Fantasy (I've played 40k for years) because if it was just as complicated as 40k, but I'd also have to buy $$$ worth of new models, I wasn't going to.

Now that the rules are "easy", I might pick some up. Even though the models are just as expensive, now that the rules are "easy" I feel like there's not that big of a barrier to entry any more.

EDIT: I know that I'll catch some flak for this, but I hope that they "dumb down" 40k into the Age of Ultramar or something.

I doubt they could do the same thing with 40k, as there is no reset button to press.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Kids. Simple as that.

You need to give kids some credit - hell, I was 11 when I taught myself WHFB 4E, and while a precocious know-it-all, I wasn't a child prodigy or something.

When I talk about AOS now, I always sum it up as a decent game for people who have no experience in the tabletop hobby. From buying, to building, to painting, to playing with miniatures, GW through AOS offers a fairly accessible experience for the new player. AOS will also leave them hungering for more, setting it up to be a gateway into bigger and better gaming systems. Hypothetically GW will have something lined up to keep new players' attention, be that expansions to AOS, more complex rules, 40k, or a different game entirely.

Because if they don't, well, there's a universe of games - and gamers - waiting for the AOS player who wants more

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Kids. Simple as that.

You need to give kids some credit - hell, I was 11 when I taught myself WHFB 4E, and while a precocious know-it-all, I wasn't a child prodigy or something.

When I talk about AOS now, I always sum it up as a decent game for people who have no experience in the tabletop hobby. From buying, to building, to painting, to playing with miniatures, GW through AOS offers a fairly accessible experience for the new player. AOS will also leave them hungering for more, setting it up to be a gateway into bigger and better gaming systems. Hypothetically GW will have something lined up to keep new players' attention, be that expansions to AOS, more complex rules, 40k, or a different game entirely.

Because if they don't, well, there's a universe of games - and gamers - waiting for the AOS player who wants more

- Salvage

And the miniature wargaming hobby can thank GW again for drawing in enormous amounts of newblood You know, like it did with the current generation of gamers....

People who like games with endless lope holes and poorly/ barely written rules.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Kids. Simple as that. The game has a very low and almost flat learning curve, which makes it great to pick up. It will not be able to interest people for the long run, but that's now that it's supposed to do.

Kids must have a lot of money then....

AoS is best suited for under 50 models. 30 models being my favorite.

That makes AoS a hell of a lot cheaper than 8th was.

+ all the rules a free too. You can get started really quickly.

The rules lend themselves to RPG and Skirmish elements better than 8th did imo. So that's another plus.

Lastly the freedom to build so many different armies is really refreshing.

AoS is perfect for a gamer like me.

Its 100 Euro for the starter set not including painsts. Cheaper then 8th but still well out of little timmys price range.

 Da krimson barun wrote:
Its 100 Euro for the starter set not including painsts. Cheaper then 8th but still well out of little timmys price range.

So what's "little Timmy's" price range then?

ziggurattt wrote:

EDIT: I know that I'll catch some flak for this, but I hope that they "dumb down" 40k into the Age of Ultramar or something.

 Da krimson barun wrote:
Kids must have a lot of money then....

You have no idea, kids are always coming in dragging their parents and ive seen some real spoilt rich kids in gamesworkshop before making their parents buy half the space marine stock.
Trust me little timmy is the best buyer Gamesworkshop has at the moment.

It's for quick laughs and sales. AoG will be dead soon enough. I can think of several tabletop miniatures games that are both entry level and far better for rules then this.

My only hope is people dispel the "optimism" plague that has hit the community and hope they finally just realized that GW Just gave us something that some one could of think up in a day. Then slapped a big fat "We expect are players to fix our game" sticker on it.

This is coming from some one who honestly was excited about AoG being released.

The principal market is newcomers who need a quick to learn and play, relatively cheap game that acts as an introduction to Fantasy wargamimg.

The secondary markets are veterans, who abandoned 8th edition WHFB and are catered for by the complete war scroll support for all old WHFB armies, and also people who just like to collect the models (either for display or for use in 40K).

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The principal market is newcomers who need a quick to learn and play, relatively cheap game that acts as an introduction to Fantasy wargamimg.

If only there was something actually left to go onto when they're done with their introduction. AoS would be fine if it were beginners fantasy wargames but they kind of needed to keep fantasy around to move onto when they grow bored of AoS and actually want the more complex army building/rules set.

The target audience of AoS is everyone - it's attempting to capture more players than ever before

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The principal market is newcomers who need a quick to learn and play, relatively cheap game that acts as an introduction to Fantasy wargamimg.

If only there was something actually left to go onto when they're done with their introduction. AoS would be fine if it were beginners fantasy wargames but they kind of needed to keep fantasy around to move onto when they grow bored of AoS and actually want the more complex army building/rules set.

I expect the campaign books et al will cover that.

I do not expect to see a Advanced Age of Sigmar, though. But then this does provide us with a game to play aside 40k as a palette cleanser (and I can use by Daemons for both games).

ShaneTB wrote:
The target audience of AoS is everyone - it's attempting to capture more players than ever before

Seemingly, not the highest bar?

According to rumour there are going to be two more layers of game rules, catering for larger battles and tournaments, plus scenario books and of course more new models.

Therefore newcomers who start with AOS Basic will have somewhere to go when they outgrow the basic set.

Whilst I can understand the whole kids-being-the-market in theory, I'm not sure it would play out in practice.
Firstly, and somewhat minor-ly, children tend not to have beards, which could be a bit of an issue.
Secondly, whilst this sort of game seems like it would appeal to childish mentality, children can take things very seriously. When me and my 11 year old friends first got into these games, we built our original 40k armies painstakingly. I mean, a lot of the fluff was a bit ropey, but it was at least intended to be taken seriously. Nothing was more serious to us than our silly game with man-dollies.

So, I'm not really that sure who this thing is aimed at.
I'm not really sure it's aim at anyone at all; GW products are perfectly inelastic, after all...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
According to rumour there are going to be two more layers of game rules, catering for larger battles and tournaments, plus scenario books and of course more new models.

Therefore newcomers who start with AOS Basic will have somewhere to go when they outgrow the basic set.

Let's be realistic here and assume that the "tournament rules" GW will release are not suitable for tournaments. What does matter, however, is that AoS gets some form of force organisation rules. Else it will die, quickly.

Err sorry fellas I think AoS was built for me. Let me describe how it feels.

I have been playing Warhammer for 20 years so don't have a problem with the complexity or any of that bull, but I don't belong to a club, and don't play regularly and certainly nothing competitive.

I have Skaven, ogres, Bretts, high elves a couple of units of lizardmen and some other bits and bobs.

Last Saturday felt a lot like Christmas to me. It WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A DECADE THAT I HAVE OWNED A FULL AND CURRENT SET OF RULES FOR EVERY MODEL I OWN.

Even better I own a set of rules for every fantasy miniature in the shop. This is splendid for me and for my boys who can now think about buying the coolest miniatures rather than feeling there are rule/practical obstacles.

I'm sure GW know that getting people to actually play is the key for success. That means fewer minis required to start, rules for free, in the box, and online and it means producing something new with a bit of razzmatazz.

I don't know what anyone else thinks but I can't help myself being absolutely 100% in favour of a game that lets any kid save his money, buy a big-feth-off-dragon and stick it straight on the battlefield and have a go. That, after all, is what every single one of me and my mates did and it will keep fantasy alive.

The idea that there is a basic set of rules to start with and an advanced/tournament enhancement seems eminently sensible to me.

I think the force organisation rules will come from scenarios, formations combining specific sets of war scrolls, and possibly a strength rating for war scrools. I very much doubt it will be a full blown points system like WHFB had.

ziggurattt wrote:
Age of Ultramar

Sounds like a crappy free-to-play MMO that lasts two years before shutting down, attention picking up in the first six months then slowly dying off in the next eighteen.

Deportivodeej wrote:
Err sorry fellas I think AoS was built for me. Let me describe how it feels.

I have been playing Warhammer for 20 years so don't have a problem with the complexity or any of that bull, but I don't belong to a club, and don't play regularly and certainly nothing competitive.

I have Skaven, ogres, Bretts, high elves a couple of units of lizardmen and some other bits and bobs.

Last Saturday felt a lot like Christmas to me. It WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A DECADE THAT I HAVE OWNED A FULL AND CURRENT SET OF RULES FOR EVERY MODEL I OWN.

Even better I own a set of rules for every fantasy miniature in the shop. This is splendid for me and for my boys who can now think about buying the coolest miniatures rather than feeling there are rule/practical obstacles.

I'm sure GW know that getting people to actually play is the key for success. That means fewer minis required to start, rules for free, in the box, and online and it means producing something new with a bit of razzmatazz.

I don't know what anyone else thinks but I can't help myself being absolutely 100% in favour of a game that lets any kid save his money, buy a big-feth-off-dragon and stick it straight on the battlefield and have a go. That, after all, is what every single one of me and my mates did and it will keep fantasy alive.

The idea that there is a basic set of rules to start with and an advanced/tournament enhancement seems eminently sensible to me.

I'm with you

And I have to say... On facebook warhammer fantasy groups, I only see players saying good things from the game...

So, I think, negative feedback, are only coming from players that like to hate new changes or didn't have tried the game yet... I maybe wrong, but that's my opinion.

I would love it if all you grown adults would stop getting pissy about this game saying its aimed at children...
I was a kid when I started playing warhammer and so was everyone I know...
Everyones excuse for this extremely uncool hobby is that you got into it when you were a kid and just never grew out of it.
Anyone who got into the game as a fully grown adult needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and go find a grown up hobby like gardening or paint by numbers. FACT

In my experience, young teens or children who are soon to be teens often like things that do not openly appear to be childish more than they like childish things...

BAN wrote:
I would love it if all you grown adults would stop getting pissy about this game saying its aimed at children...
I was a kid when I started playing warhammer and so was everyone I know...
Everyones excuse for this extremely uncool hobby is that you got into it when you were a kid and just never grew out of it.
Anyone who got into the game as a fully grown adult needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and go find a grown up hobby like gardening or paint by numbers. FACT

Pffft.

Gardening?

Try real grown-up hobbies... like paying the mortgage, getting laid off or the one that's more popular right now, divorcing.

 Grimdark wrote:

BAN wrote:
I would love it if all you grown adults would stop getting pissy about this game saying its aimed at children...
I was a kid when I started playing warhammer and so was everyone I know...
Everyones excuse for this extremely uncool hobby is that you got into it when you were a kid and just never grew out of it.
Anyone who got into the game as a fully grown adult needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and go find a grown up hobby like gardening or paint by numbers. FACT

Pffft.

Gardening?

Try real grown-up hobbies... like paying the mortgage, getting laid off or the one that's more popular right now, divorcing.

That's not hobbies... That's consequences from hobbies

The target market is people who will buy whatever GW produces.

NunoTaborda wrote:

Deportivodeej wrote:
Err sorry fellas I think AoS was built for me. Let me describe how it feels.

I have been playing Warhammer for 20 years so don't have a problem with the complexity or any of that bull, but I don't belong to a club, and don't play regularly and certainly nothing competitive.

I have Skaven, ogres, Bretts, high elves a couple of units of lizardmen and some other bits and bobs.

Last Saturday felt a lot like Christmas to me. It WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A DECADE THAT I HAVE OWNED A FULL AND CURRENT SET OF RULES FOR EVERY MODEL I OWN.

Even better I own a set of rules for every fantasy miniature in the shop. This is splendid for me and for my boys who can now think about buying the coolest miniatures rather than feeling there are rule/practical obstacles.

I'm sure GW know that getting people to actually play is the key for success. That means fewer minis required to start, rules for free, in the box, and online and it means producing something new with a bit of razzmatazz.

I don't know what anyone else thinks but I can't help myself being absolutely 100% in favour of a game that lets any kid save his money, buy a big-feth-off-dragon and stick it straight on the battlefield and have a go. That, after all, is what every single one of me and my mates did and it will keep fantasy alive.

The idea that there is a basic set of rules to start with and an advanced/tournament enhancement seems eminently sensible to me.

I'm with you

And I have to say... On facebook warhammer fantasy groups, I only see players saying good things from the game...

So, I think, negative feedback, are only coming from players that like to hate new changes or didn't have tried the game yet... I maybe wrong, but that's my opinion.

Interesting... In the groups i have not seen one positive thing about it other than its free but that is... you get what you pay for. And this is from people who have played it face to face.
Having played it and watched it being played i really dont see much of a game. Checkers is more complex. Again i would be fine with this ruleset if it were marketed as a intro rules for a started kit only. But since GW feels insistent on secrecy we have to assume this is a full blown rule set.