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I'm a firm believer that having the highest quality of training mixed with grit, and discipline would make the strongest guard regiment.

Out of the mainstream regiments who would you qualify as the toughest given my criteria above?

I think pure grit, resolve and toughness would go to the Catachans. Their deathworld training puts them far above other regiments.

 Icculus wrote:
I think pure grit, resolve and toughness would go to the Catachans. Their deathworld training puts them far above other regiments.

All true but it also makes them horrible line infantry no matter how tough and rugged they are. They are too independent for many situations. For most well trained that probably is the Cadians.

I'm not convinced there's an answer.
The regiments were designed to all have different strengths and appeals.

The only regiment you could firmly argue is not well trained is the Tanith, as they never had chance. However they've survived many situations and show remarkable natural adaptability.

So far as discipline, I'd be biased towards Mordians and their refusal to break ranks or retreat (resulting in the ridiculous situations where they're occasionally left behind because nobody ordered them to leave).

That's the Death Korps schtick, too. They need Commissars to reign them in.

The correct answer, valid for almost any subjective question like this one is:

"The one I like the most."

Mordian discipline, plus they are backed by the rule of cool.

MarsNZ wrote:
The correct answer, valid for almost any subjective question like this one is:

"The one I like the most."

Not necessarily. I love the Savlar Chem Dogs fluff, and I'll freely admit they're pretty terrible on both counts. Not everyone feels the need for their faction to be "the bestest at everything evar!!!"

To the OP, I would say it's a pretty sure bet that Cadians are the most well trained, and Catachans are the toughest. Every Cadian learns to be a soldier as soon as they're old enough to walk, and the planet's been doing this for centuries. They've had time to work out the kinks. Plenty of first hand experience against Chaos too. Catachans, meanwhile, grew up on one of the most lethal death worlds in the galaxy where every day is a struggle to survive.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm a firm believer that having the highest quality of training mixed with grit, and discipline would make the strongest guard regiment.

Out of the mainstream regiments who would you qualify as the toughest given my criteria above?

There's multiple worlds where training is essentially from childhood. A lot of them however typically specialize in something.

Now, if we're just talking sheer willingness to face & endure whatever, and die, probably the DKoK, and they're the only ones with rules to back that up.

If we're talking actual military capability and adaptability, probably the Cadians.

Indeed. Catachans are awesome, but the moment you mention "discipline".....go somewhere else.

Probably the best balance is the Cadians. The Mordians are very over-the-top on discipline, but the Cadians come a close second - and they have more regular experience because whilst Mordia has been attacked in the past, Cadia is...well....Cadia. Raids by chaos warbands occur most tuesdays.

Cadians probably have the best training, Catachans are the toughest, Mordians have the best discipline and the DKoK has the best commitment.

DKoK or which ever way you can have endless waves of men dying to Zap Brannigan's suicide plan.

skip to 6:13

Cadians are proably the best soldiers in the IoM. this doesn't mean that tey're better in every way. but by and large if you want a professional military force capable of holding the line, following orders, but also demonstrating "common sense level initative" the Cadians are proably the best canidate

locarno24 wrote:
Indeed. Catachans are awesome, but the moment you mention "discipline".....go somewhere else.

Probably the best balance is the Cadians. The Mordians are very over-the-top on discipline, but the Cadians come a close second - and they have more regular experience because whilst Mordia has been attacked in the past, Cadia is...well....Cadia. Raids by chaos warbands occur most tuesdays.

I'm going to go ahead and say the tourist board for Mordian is also pretty terrible at its job.
There's no daylight, it's cramped as feth, and Friday night is cultists-eat-free. The siege may be done and dusted, but it is an incredible cluster-feth.

...Let's just agree that we basically don't want to live on any of these planets.

Penal Legion? If I were In penal for stelaing a candy for a Kid Id be pretty eager to redem my sins puttign a furious fight vs Orkz, that can smash my head with one punch.

What guard regiment is the most well trained? - Mordians. From a perpetual night planet-city of gangs comes the most unflinching and regimented regiment in the galaxy.

Which is the toughest? - Catachans, they're halfway to being ogryns.

And which units deployment is a sign to leave very quickly and beg to be assigned to a Grey Knight kill team?

Elysians. Its like their very presence is a guarrantee that the mission is going to fail, no matter how many Space Marines you throw at it with them.

I'd say the steel legion they have been battle hardened and tested time and time again. if you can fight wave after wave of Orks and hold the line sometimes to the last that shows true grit and training in my book. Also commissar yarrick is a beast! Armageddon steel legion all the way!

In my opinion it goes like this
Scions
Death Corps
Cadians
Catachans
Elysians
Tallaran
Steel Legion
Vostroyan
Valhallans
I wanted to include the Kaerls some where but not sure how they'd rank up with these more well known regiments.

The Death Korps of Krieg win this hands down.

They are the only regiment where the Commissars are there to stop them from throwing their lives away.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Death Korps of Krieg win this hands down.

They are the only regiment where the Commissars are there to stop them from throwing their lives away.

That makes them ill disciplined.

As usual, the fluff is deliberately inconclusive so you can pick the regiment you favor and still feel good about your choice.

It's hardly surprising. After all, can you really tell which Division of the US Army is 'the best'? Or which British regiment has the tightest discipline and highest skill level? Not really. Even tossing in special ops, is it the Ghurkas? SAS? Green Berets, SEALS, Force Recon? Spetnaz?

You can have an opinion, but proving it is almost impossible. It'll devolve into a struggle between various fanboy factions. Perhaps if you boil it down to 'best regiment in situation X' you MIGHT get something approaching an objective answer.

Fair point about the Salvar Chem Dogs. They're definitely the anti-heroes of the IG/AM. That in itself can be a fun reason to love 'em.

You can also make a point that the Elysians aren't the problem, it's Segmentum Command throwing them into bad situations all the time the way the French utilized the Foreign Legion. 'Got a no-win situation? Send in the Elysians... they may not win, but they'll make the enemy pay five, maybe ten times their number...'

My two cents.

The Storm Trooper regiment, of course.

Mordian Iron guard are the most disciplined, that goes without question. Hell, being the most disciplined regiment in the entire Imperium is their gimmick.

Death Korps are the most determined but can you really call them disciplined? Never retreating in a battle with no chance of victory requires massive self-control but if they won't follow orders to retreat can you really call them disciplined?

 Bobthehero wrote:
That's the Death Korps schtick, too. They need Commissars to reign them in.

That doesn't sound very disciplined at all, if they need Commissars to ensure they don't break ranks and advance when they're not supposed to.

Would love to argue Steel Legion, but since there mostly Hive Worlders thrown together to stop the orks, it's probably DKoK, Cadians, Mordians, or Catachans.

 Signet-Powers wrote:
Mordian Iron guard are the most disciplined, that goes without question. Hell, being the most disciplined regiment in the entire Imperium is their gimmick.

Death Korps are the most determined but can you really call them disciplined? Never retreating in a battle with no chance of victory requires massive self-control but if they won't follow orders to retreat can you really call them disciplined?

They will actually follow, as to HOW they'll follow them in regard to their mentality, that's something else entirely.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What guard regiment is the most well trained? - Mordians. From a perpetual night planet-city of gangs comes the most unflinching and regimented regiment in the galaxy.

Which is the toughest? - Catachans, they're halfway to being ogryns.

This. For all reasons listed.

DKOK needlessly throw their lives away. That is not discipline. That is the opposite. It makes them great at what they do, but it does not make them disciplined.

Discipline is the cornerstone of being a good soldier. Basic Training, the first introduction any American gets to becoming a soldier, is almost entirely devoted to teaching discipline to soldiers. Without discipline you can't be a unit that achieved maximum combat effectiveness.

If you tell a Mordian Platoon to "go secure that hill" how will they do it? By following their battle drills as laid out to them in their training. AKA a good soldier, and one you can depend on purely because of their training.

If you tell a DKOK Platoon to "go secure that hill" how will they do it? Who the hell knows. Maybe they will follow their training, maybe they will get too caught up in the moment and throw themselves at the enemy.

Which is more effective? I can't answer that. Which is more dependable? Obviously, the Mordians.

Mordians are probably the most disciplined, given their fluff as hive gangers bent to enforcing extreme rationing. I think more than any othe regiment, a Mordian given an order will obey without question.

Grit means a lot of things. Catachans grow up surviving a hellish death world (where every plant is poisonous and ever animal a predator... gotta love OTT fluff) that makes any hive gang, rad world, or invasion prone punching bag world look soft in comparison.

Quality of training is realy up in the air. Scions clearly are at the top here, although they are not really a proper Guard regiment (anymore). Cadians have the best documented training, but what is revealed shows that not only do Cadians train in depth (children can field strip lasguns and platoons are the smallest units that attempt most field exercises) they also train broadly. They train in various climates and geographies, and use the full range of weapons available to the IG.

Cadians are plenty tough, and certainly well disciplined. I think the sheer range of training afforded the Cadian regiments makes them the most generally useful regiment.

yeah, the impression I get is, if you need a regiment for a specific mission with a specific task etc, other regiments might be better, but if you just need a regiment for "something and I'm not a hundred percent certin what conditions will be" Cadians are your choice. they;'re disiplined, skilled and adaptable