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Tanith First and Only. Influencing the course of the Sabbat Worlds crusade more than any other, with only ~3000 men and little to no vehicles when at full strength.

Tanith First-and-only is aweosome, but I don't know if disciplined is a good word to describe them. Tough yes, but disciplined when one of the top officers openly wants to kill the CO?

 saithor wrote:
Tanith First-and-only is aweosome, but I don't know if disciplined is a good word to describe them. Tough yes, but disciplined when one of the top officers openly wants to kill the CO?

Yeah, the Tanith are like the scrappy kids from the 80's movie that beat the snooty rich kids in the end. They're a great story, and lucky as hell, but their biggest attribute seems to be plot armor.

Considering how many characters die, not even very good plot armor. But yeah, that analogy works.

I would love one of the Ghosts novels to be made into a film. Necropolis is the one that springs to mind to be a potential good film conversion.

Remember Rawne does 'warm' to Gaunt in the latter books. Well as much as Elim Rawne can warm to anybody. Cuu I would say is the worst example of a lack of discipline.

Depends on the environment, if your not sure on the job, Cadians do almost anything, jungle Catchans are tough as they come and probably will call it a picnic.

Some are extreme specialists, you got a jungle, ice world or bloody thankless siege. Call in the pro,s.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I would love one of the Ghosts novels to be made into a film. Necropolis is the one that springs to mind to be a potential good film conversion.

Remember Rawne does 'warm' to Gaunt in the latter books. Well as much as Elim Rawne can warm to anybody. Cuu I would say is the worst example of a lack of discipline.

That would be awesome. However GW would probably insist on a SM film instead, more than likely Ultramarines (ugh that is still the most stupid sounding name).

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Death Korps of Krieg win this hands down.

They are the only regiment where the Commissars are there to stop them from throwing their lives away.

That makes them ill disciplined.

My interpretation of the whole "Krieg needs Commissars so they don't sacrifice themselves" does not refer to the wanton throwing away of lives at a whim (which seems a pretty bad trait for regiments that are supposedly heavily specialised in long-term wars of attrition and trench warfare) but rather due to Krieg officers being entirely without imagination. Hence, when you order a Krieg Colonel to take that hill, he just keeps sending men at the problem and the men keep advancing into the teeth of the enemy machineguns until they run out of bullets or men to shoot them at. It takes someone else (say, a Commissar that was trained in the Schola) to point out to said Colonel that if the first four waves didn't do it then maybe it is a waste to send in the fifth. Such rigid adherence to the chain of command is certainly not a great trait for anything outside of trench warfare but in their little niche? They will grind down almost anything given the time and the bodies.

Given that the Mordians are themselves based off of the Prussians, I can imagine them having a far more flexible officer corps that encourages junior officers and senior NCOs to think on their feet within the context of general orders but to still carry them out with trademark Mordian precision and decorum. Discipline and initiative need not be discrete qualities afterall.

I would say the DKoK are the most effective out of the guard regiments.
Born and trained on a world that has had a nuclear holocaust.
If you tell the DKoK to do something, THEY WILL DO IT NO MATTER WHAT ("secure that hill",DKoK WILL secure that hill)
Because of their Discipline, they generally do not need commisars (see the 2nd point as for why)
They look the most badass
They alone are responsible for 20% of the grimdark that is in 40k
TRENCHES
Their commisars are more badass looking than yours
ARTILLERY

Catachans are cool because they have sly marbo and are a bunch of Arnie ripoffs

commander dante wrote:
I would say the DKoK are the most effective out of the guard regiments.
Born and trained on a world that has had a nuclear holocaust.
If you tell the DKoK to do something, THEY WILL DO IT NO MATTER WHAT ("secure that hill",DKoK WILL secure that hill)

Or they will all die terrible deaths because they won't do anything but charge up the face of it.

Most effective is very debatable, and I'd wager that they would not really be as effective in real life as they are in universe based on their tactics. They take their battle plan right out of World War I armies, which were horribly INEFFECTIVE.

I'd also argue that just being born on a world with a nuclear holocaust does nothing to make them tougher. If anything, it's just in the sense that they aren't going to complain about nearly as much as someone else would by virtue of having to wear a gas mask their entire lives. But that neither makes them tougher nor more effective nor more well trained.

A well trained dog is one that will heel well called to while running to attack someone. Not charge at someone they perceive to be a threat to their owner.

There's a pretty good fluff exemple where the DKoK general decides that the current battle he's dealing with is a waste of Imperium resources, the retreat his troops does is well ordered and well executed, if you ignore the whole planet-is-going-to-necron'd part.

This question had TWO parts.. what was the most disciplined and what was the toughest. Can people read the OP.. it is TWO questions, barely anyone answered the sexond question!!

commander dante wrote:
I would say the DKoK are the most effective out of the guard regiments.

For sieges, maybe.

More effective than Catachan or Tallarn at guerrilla style battles in the jungle/desert? Nope.

More effective at stealth/scouting than the Tanith? Nope.

More effective at special operations/deep striking than Storm Troopers? Nope.

More effective at mechanised/blitzkrieg than the Steel Legion? Nope.

The DKoK, like many "regiments of reknown" within the Imperium are specialised towards particular styles of warfare, with particular strengths as a result. This means that there isn't really a "most effective" regiment overall, because they all do their own things better than most others. So, the most effective regiment will depend on the theatre/campaign/battlefield of any given situation.

ConanMan wrote:
This question had TWO parts.. what was the most disciplined and what was the toughest. Can people read the OP.. it is TWO questions, barely anyone answered the sexond question!!

Toughest, I'm putting down Armaggeddon Steel Legion. Personal Bias is defintely in full effect here, but they have fought off a Chaos Primarch, and Thraka twice, and that they were mostly raised not as fighters like the Cadians, Catachans, or DKoK, but were instead mostly Hive citizens. Also their is nothing tougher than the steel of tank armor. Probably not what others answers are going to be, but that's my choice for toughest.

Mordian discipline is referred to in the fluff as being the best in the Imperial Guard. That isn't coming from a place of fan boy wishing; I don't own any of them, nor do I intend to change that.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Tanith First and Only. Influencing the course of the Sabbat Worlds crusade more than any other, with only ~3000 men and little to no vehicles when at full strength.

They're openly referred to in the AM codex as being head-the-ball unruly. And "little to no vehicles" can't truly be said when many times they're palled up with regiments who do have vehicles...

They're resilient, I'll give you that. I think their survival rate greatly outstrips other regiments.
But then other regiments haven't got a dozen books following them with a necessity of some regular cast survival. You can't easily sell a franchise purely on red-shirts.

ConanMan wrote:
This question had TWO parts.. what was the most disciplined and what was the toughest. Can people read the OP.. it is TWO questions, barely anyone answered the sexond question!!

The Spiders of the Necromundan 8th get my vote. Composed entirely of members of the Spider gang from one of the hive cities, the regiment is always rebuilt and replenished from their ranks.

High morale due to familial bonds and regimental tradition, lots of experience in fighting, and they have some OG game fluff. I know they go back to the 2nd Edition Black Codex, and maybe even to Rogue Trader.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
As usual, the fluff is deliberately inconclusive so you can pick the regiment you favor and still feel good about your choice.

It's hardly surprising. After all, can you really tell which Division of the US Army is 'the best'? Or which British regiment has the tightest discipline and highest skill level? Not really. Even tossing in special ops, is it the Ghurkas? SAS? Green Berets, SEALS, Force Recon? Spetnaz?

You can have an opinion, but proving it is almost impossible. It'll devolve into a struggle between various fanboy factions. Perhaps if you boil it down to 'best regiment in situation X' you MIGHT get something approaching an objective answer.

Fair point about the Salvar Chem Dogs. They're definitely the anti-heroes of the IG/AM. That in itself can be a fun reason to love 'em.

You can also make a point that the Elysians aren't the problem, it's Segmentum Command throwing them into bad situations all the time the way the French utilized the Foreign Legion. 'Got a no-win situation? Send in the Elysians... they may not win, but they'll make the enemy pay five, maybe ten times their number...'

My two cents.

SEALS have a special-special forces (I forget the official name for it) called Seal Team Six. It's basically its own division. Force Recon is on par with SEALS, SEALS are on par with Berets and Rangers, Seal Team Six is on par with Delta Force. We most definitely can figure out which Spec Ops groups are the best (in terms of successful ops, training, discipline, etc. etc.). Also, I'm pretty sure that Force Recon got replaced by MARSOC (participate in the inter-branch SpecOps thing, basically just Force Recon, only they cooperate with other branches). I could break it down further, but that would take ages of typing, and is way off topic. Instead, I'll direct you to this article, and direct you to look at the comments (specifically, that of Denis Savgir) http://news.discovery.com/adventure/outdoor-activities/navy-seals-vs-delta-force-whos-really-tougher.htm


In response to OP, I'd say that the Cadians are the best all-around (jack of all trades), while troops like DKoK and Catachans are more specialized (even if they can be used in a variety of situations), meaning not the best soldiers..

EDIT: Cadians have millenia of fighting Chaos to evolve them (Darwinism and all that, which 40k has (regardless of your faith, it's in 40k (see: Tau))) to be better soldiers. I'm not just talking better physical specimens, I mean they would (realistically) literally evolve to be more disciplined, more stubborn, more able to be trained, etc. etc. (survival of the fittest) genetically. Not only this, but their training process has been constantly honed for over 10 thousand years to be the ultimate soldier training system - everything wrong with it (99.99%) will have been removed due to it not working in the Chaos attacks, or being inefficient. Sure, Cadians may not be the ultimate marine warriors, but they have all of the factors for being the best Regiment stacked in their favor.

Note: This isn't bias speaking here, I harbor a rather strong dislike for the mary sue-ness of Cadians, but, what can I say? Sometimes the best is just the best.
Note note: Smurfs aren't the best Chapter just because they're poster boys. They just have the most resources.

Would Cadians really be affected by survival of the fittest? Unless they're speciffically put on breeding programmes that denied poorer specemins the right to reproduce (unlikely given the planets presumably high output of soldiers) there's no reason to assume that the weaker or slower ones can't have kids. I don't remember any mention of a Cadian breeding programme anyway, I might be wrong.

We all know that the best special forces are the ones that are still secret.

 Signet-Powers wrote:
Would Cadians really be affected by survival of the fittest? Unless they're speciffically put on breeding programmes that denied poorer specemins the right to reproduce (unlikely given the planets presumably high output of soldiers) there's no reason to assume that the weaker or slower ones can't have kids. I don't remember any mention of a Cadian breeding programme anyway, I might be wrong.

We all know that the best special forces are the ones that are still secret.

I say survival of the fittest, in that Cadian regiments are constantly in combat, Cadia is constantly being raided, etc. After 10k+ years, the Cadian population would inevitably evolve (neurally, psychologically, etc.) to be excellent soldiers. Those with an increased predilection to follow orders might survive, while the sergeant who decided to dig a latrine closer to the camp than his superior ordered ended up creating a perfect place for a group of Cultists to hide in before killing the nearby guards and allowing a horde of Cultists to slaughter the rest in their sleep. Just 10k+ years of people who are better suited to serving on the front lines surviving and passing on that ability to their offspring, while those that were less suited (even slightly so) would get offed. Of course, luck would play a serious role, but, after 10k+ years, there would be an inevitable trend of better soldiers (psychologically, physically, neurally) being spawned from the billions of survivors from past wars. It would be a highly gradual process, but it would happen (logically, at least. But, 40k is rarely logical, so it might not have happened).

note: I just added neurally to the list because the soldiers with the better reflexes would be more likely to survive, just like the soldiers whose brains perhaps have a slightly weaker ability to produce fear hormones might be better suited than the ones whose brains produced just a little bit too much fear and were routed and massacered, while the ones that produced too little fear ended up getting killed through lack of caution.

Well, from the "official" Regiments, I'd say:

Cadians: Best overall; "Jack of all Trades". Good training mixed with discipline and gear.

Catachans: Best when you need sh*t done. Practically no discipline, but make up with skill, flexibility and determination.

Mordians: Most disciplined. This may turn out to be bad, as it allows no tactical flexibility.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:


Mordians: Most disciplined. This may turn out to be bad, as it allows no tactical flexibility.

Care to explain this a little further? I'd like to see how your logic follows here...

Also, just to split hairs because that's what I'm good at, U.S. Army Rangers are not a special forces unit, nor are they on par training wise with the SEALs or Green Berets, who are mostly not on par with Delta Force. Rangers are just the Army's elite light infantry Battalions, and while there is only two of them, there are a lot more Rangers than there are SEALs, Berets, or Deltas.

I'd say maybe Elysians for best trained, they are essentially an airbourne assault regiment. Most disciplined either mordians or DKoK.

This is a hard question--first I say Tanith--then oh--Mordian, but then again Cadian--aww crap Krieg....damn. LOL!

I would say DKoK. Their only main weakness that I know of is them not fearing death at all. Which is a problem. Vostroyans win by the rule of cool though

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Cadians probably have the best training, Catachans are the toughest, Mordians have the best discipline and the DKoK has the best commitment.

Don't forget the Vostroyans, who make up for a lack in other department by probably being the single best equipped regiments in the Imperium. In a choice of Cadians and Vostroyans, I'd favor the firstborn simply for their gear and armor. Drown the enemy in massed squadrons of Leman Russes with infantry wielding borderline artificer gear. Plus their regiments are consistently reinforced and therefore maintain large groups of veteran squads to reliably lead the fresh recruits.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm a firm believer that having the highest quality of training mixed with grit, and discipline would make the strongest guard regiment.

Out of the mainstream regiments who would you qualify as the toughest given my criteria above?

Best trained - Cadians.

Toughest - Catachans.

The most famous/commonly encountered Guard regiments in fluff (Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyan, Krieg, Armageddon, Mordian, Elysians, Tallarn, Valhallans) are actually the most elite/capable/famous. These guys are a league above your average Guardsmen, which fit the usual stereotype.

Strictly Well-Trained: Mordians. Drills. It's their thing
Strictly Toughness: Catachans. Being tough. It's their thing.