Astra Militarum Sentinels Any Good?

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**Colehkxix**

I've always wanted my guard army to be a mobile force that can advance and take objectives. Sadly this isn't very easy to do with Heavy Weapons Teams, which encourage me to have a static force stuck in my deployment zone.

I am moving towards getting transports for my Infantry Squads/Veterans, and perhaps ditching weapons teams altogether. I see Sentinels as a more mobile alternative. But how good are they?

I'm mainly looking at the lascannon option for taking on vehicles and monstrous creatures.

**fallinq**

They're not spectacular, but they're certainly not bad either, being cheap, maneuverable heavy weapons platforms. Take a couple squads of three, otherwise they lack any offensive punch. You probably want to take scout squads if you're going mobile, and keep them in cover, as they can be rather fragile.

Personally though, I've always found Hellhounds to be a more appealing mobile IG option.

**ansacs**

IG scouts are quite mediocre. Not terrible but definitely not good. On the other hand in the forgeworld Renegades and Heretics army list they are actually quite good.

If you want a mobile IG force and don't mind allies then drop pod IG vets are actually really good.

Alternatively the forgeworld army list for Elysian Drop Troops is actually pretty good when used with some finesse.

Personally though my favorite mobile IG force is the death riders of krieg detachment. ObjSec cavalry is pretty awesome.

As for base codex IG it really doesn't do mobile very well...or really much at all. You can attempt it but you will be at a huge disadvantage against almost any other army list. However if you use the new hades breach drill units they can do some decent work and are very mobile.

**Colehkxix**

fallinq wrote:
They're not spectacular, but they're certainly not bad either, being cheap, maneuverable heavy weapons platforms. Take a couple squads of three, otherwise they lack any offensive punch. You probably want to take scout squads if you're going mobile, and keep them in cover, as they can be rather fragile.

Personally though, I've always found Hellhounds to be a more appealing mobile IG option.

I do like the look of hellhounds, but my main problem right now seems to be the lack of effective anti monster and anti tank. Lasguns, heavy flamers and transport weapons do well enough at holding off the small amount of infantry I face, but I have little to fight the Wraithknights or Raiders I keep coming across.

I understand a Hellhound would help with the Raiders though!

ansacs wrote:
IG scouts are quite mediocre. Not terrible but definitely not good. On the other hand in the forgeworld Renegades and Heretics army list they are actually quite good.

If you want a mobile IG force and don't mind allies then drop pod IG vets are actually really good.

Alternatively the forgeworld army list for Elysian Drop Troops is actually pretty good when used with some finesse.

Personally though my favorite mobile IG force is the death riders of krieg detachment. ObjSec cavalry is pretty awesome.

As for base codex IG it really doesn't do mobile very well...or really much at all. You can attempt it but you will be at a huge disadvantage against almost any other army list. However if you use the new hades breach drill units they can do some decent work and are very mobile.

I am told I am playing the wrong army and that I should be playing as Renegades and Heretics all the time!

I'm reluctant to give Imperial Guardsmen Drop Pods, as it doesn't fit the theme at all. I would rather put Space Marines in there.. however this is a Guard army! They would be quite effective I admit.

I have some Elysians nearby I haven't gotten around to using yet. They seem pretty nice. I also have some Death Riders I haven't gotten around to putting together yet!

I understand I'm trying to do the opposite of what most IG players do: I want a mobile army rather than a gunline. I believe it can work out if I find out which units are best for it. So far melta/heavy flamer Veterans in Tauroxes with Company Command Squads in Chimeras seem like good choices. I never see or hear of anyone using Sentinels, I'm worried this is because they're weak/cost too many points for what they do.

I'm mainly looking at Armoured Sentinels.

**fallinq**

You might find vets in valkyries to be a good choice. Run 'em with a heavy flamer and 2 plasma or melta. They'll probably die fairly quickly, but they'll deal a lot of pain before they do.

Like I said, sentinels with lascannons are perfectly serviceable for anti-tank/MC. Not for tournaments, but if you're set on mobile IG, clearly that's not a concern. What saves them is that they're cheap. A scout sentinal with a lascannon only costs a little more than heavy weapons team with a lascannon! So even though they're not that great, you take a bunch while only putting a small dent in your points budget. Like I said, take two full sentinel squads, at least. If you really don't want hellhounds, take a third, and maybe even make 'em heavy sentinels for more survivability. Anything less than 6 lascannons at BS3 isn't gonna cut it.

**Colehkxix**

fallinq wrote:
You might find vets in valkyries to be a good choice. Run 'em with a heavy flamer and 2 plasma or melta. They'll probably die fairly quickly, but they'll deal a lot of pain before they do.

Like I said, sentinels with lascannons are perfectly serviceable for anti-tank/MC. Not for tournaments, but if you're set on mobile IG, clearly that's not a concern. What saves them is that they're cheap. A scout sentinal with a lascannon only costs a little more than heavy weapons team with a lascannon! So even though they're not that great, you take a bunch while only putting a small dent in your points budget. Like I said, take two full sentinel squads, at least. If you really don't want hellhounds, take a third, and maybe even make 'em heavy sentinels for more survivability. Anything less than 6 lascannons at BS3 isn't gonna cut it.

Well, if I was playing tournaments I wouldn't be playing IG!

I plan on getting a few Sentinels to offset the low BS. Why do you recommend Hellhounds for anti tank?

I like the idea of using Valks, but they're rather expensive and won't be on the board until turn 2-3.

**fallinq**

Oh, Hellhounds aren't anti-tank. They're just really good against infantry. So good that they are the best IG fast attack, head-and-shoulders above the rest, IMHO. Torrent and being able to move flat out and shoot gives them a very good threat range. For any infantry less sturdy than MEQ, they're basically point and erase, no roll to hit or cover save. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. Even MEQ take a beating, since the Inferno Cannon wounds them on 2's. Being able to basically annihilate any infantry squad that gets within 36" of you is nothing to sneeze at. Vets may be able to take heavy flamers, but the short flame template range makes them much more limited.

Hellhounds are pretty great against a lot of things , and I think they're underrated, but if you're opponent runs vehicle spam then they wouldn't be very useful. My meta is mostly all-comers lists, so that's not a big problem for me. I prefer vets for my anti-vehicle. 3 Plasma Guns and a Lascannon in a BS4 squad is a pretty credible threat against all but the heaviest tanks, and Melta vets can hurt the big boys.

**SpookyRuben**

I actually run 3 squads of sentinels in one of my lists.

3 Scout with 2-Autocannons/1-Missile w/searchlight
3 Scout with 2-Autocannons/1-Missile w/searchlight
3 Armoured with LasCannons

The rest of the list is mobile, vets in chimeras, Leman Russ' etc...

They do okay, but it's more of what they could potentially do that seems to have the most effect. For example, they can outflank which affects my opponents deployment. They can tarpit in a pinch against certain units. It is a fair number of armoured units, so force decisions regarding target priority.

I do find that I tend to have to focus them on one target though to make a meaningful impact in terms of damage.

But they can be versatile in a number of ways. And for a total of less than 400 points you are putting 9 walkers with heavy weapons on the field.

**ansacs**

fallinq wrote:Oh, Hellhounds aren't anti-tank. They're just really good against infantry. So good that they are the best IG fast attack, head-and-shoulders above the rest, IMHO.

I would actually agree with you to some degree hellhounds probably arguably the best fast attack option in the IG codex. That is a very low bar with the only challenger being the significantly overpriced vendetta. The vendetta however at least performs a task which no other unit in the codex comes close to equaling. The hellhound is hands down worse than the wyvern in every way, except being in a less crowded slot.

BTW with forgeworld included the best fast attack option is the vulture with punisher cannon. That thing will average a 5 dead scatbikes a turn. Whereas the hellhound is lucky to average 1 dead scatbike.

fallinq wrote:Torrent and being able to move flat out and shoot gives them a very good threat range.

That does sound great...unfortunately it isn't true. The hellhound cannot flatout and shoot. What it can do is move up to 12" and shoot it's torrent flamer.

fallinq wrote:For any infantry less sturdy than MEQ, they're basically point and erase, no roll to hit or cover save. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. Even MEQ take a beating, since the Inferno Cannon wounds them on 2's. Being able to basically annihilate any infantry squad that gets within 36" of you is nothing to sneeze at. Vets may be able to take heavy flamers, but the short flame template range makes them much more limited.

The problem with hellhounds is two fold;
1) They do not annihilate any infantry unit even when they are less sturdy than MEQ. All you have to do is arrange the unit in a circle and the hellhound will hit approx half of them. Additionally there are lots of ways to mitigate damage; FnP, invulnerable saves, invisibility, flying, blocking LoS.
2) The worst part though is that it is a short range weapon with a rear armour 10. Many units that survive the shooting will just charge it and kill it (no overwatch). Combine this with the AV12 and what you find out is it is usually a 1 hit wonder except against the armies it actually works well against...in which case it dies first.

Also it should be noted that the average armour value is actually 3+. Saying units that are less durable than MEQ is actually talking about the lowest 20% of units durability wise.

fallinq wrote:Hellhounds are pretty great against a lot of things , and I think they're underrated, but if you're opponent runs vehicle spam then they wouldn't be very useful. My meta is mostly all-comers lists, so that's not a big problem for me. I prefer vets for my anti-vehicle. 3 Plasma Guns and a Lascannon in a BS4 squad is a pretty credible threat against all but the heaviest tanks, and Melta vets can hurt the big boys.

I also agree that they are underrated. They are really good at what they do but at a premium price for an IG vehicle.

However the reason they are underrated is exactly due to needing TAC lists. The hellhound is a niche weapon. Very very good against low anti tank armies with 4+ or worse saves. Which is essentially Orks, IG, and Skitarii these days. If hellhounds were priced similarily to their real competition; the wyvern, they would be a good unit. They would still be less TAC than the wyvern but they would have definite purpose. Being twice the points for a quarter the reliability and usually half the damage through a game is not a good place to be.

Colehkxix wrote:I like the idea of using Valks, but they're rather expensive and won't be on the board until turn 2-3.

Actually there are a bunch of ways to make IG armies work as a mobile force. Just the methods in the codex are very subpar.

The method I use quite a bit is a comms relay and ADL + infantry squads on the ground. I then add 2-3 vendetta's each with either a CCS w/ 4 plasma guns (a truly brutal shooting unit that can erase most threats in a single volley) or a SWS w/ 3 demo charges. Vendettas are significantly overpriced right now but they are still a good source of AA and anti tank while being a capable transport that can drop units the turn they arrive from reserves. BTW if you take CCS's in 2 vendetta's you can make a sarge in your infantry squads the warlord, that or get a priest or psyker to use as warlord. The 4x plasma CCS are cheap and mean but they are such huge threats that they always die.

If you have the forgeworld books then mobile IG becomes much more realistic and I have and do take on top tier builds with them regularly. BTW you do NOT need elysian models to run an elysian drop force. In fact the Cadian models actually make a pretty good looking force for this with the breathers and some toy parachutes skillfully applied. I personally use these rule with the old stormtrooper models.

The hades breach drill also can be used this regular vet models to make a 2 special weapon unit that can move 12" in the movement phase and gain a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting. Alternatively this unit can move 6" and then charge and have the possibility to take down an imperial knight in melee.

**Talizvar**

Odd, why no thoughts on plasma sentinels?
The template weapon works around the low BS and is fairly inexpensive and can shoot at pretty much anything to good effect (except snap fire.)
They always become a concern to any army I faced.
Being able to stomp through difficult terrain is a bonus.
The only close second would be the scouting autocannon sentinels.
Hellhounds for the points just are not worth it in my opinion for what they do in comparison (Almost for the same points you can get a "proper" tank.)

**Colehkxix**

fallinq wrote:
Oh, Hellhounds aren't anti-tank. They're just really good against infantry. So good that they are the best IG fast attack, head-and-shoulders above the rest, IMHO. Torrent and being able to move flat out and shoot gives them a very good threat range. For any infantry less sturdy than MEQ, they're basically point and erase, no roll to hit or cover save. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. Even MEQ take a beating, since the Inferno Cannon wounds them on 2's. Being able to basically annihilate any infantry squad that gets within 36" of you is nothing to sneeze at. Vets may be able to take heavy flamers, but the short flame template range makes them much more limited.

Hellhounds are pretty great against a lot of things , and I think they're underrated, but if you're opponent runs vehicle spam then they wouldn't be very useful. My meta is mostly all-comers lists, so that's not a big problem for me. I prefer vets for my anti-vehicle. 3 Plasma Guns and a Lascannon in a BS4 squad is a pretty credible threat against all but the heaviest tanks, and Melta vets can hurt the big boys.

I see! Unfortunately most players I play with only like taking "fun" units and think of infantry, especially basic infantry, as boring. So I usually see a lot of vehicles and monsters. The Heavy Flamers are just in case.

3 plasma guns and a lascannon in one squad sounds rather expensive! And also lacks the mobility I was aiming for by replacing the HWTeams with Sentinels.

SpookyRuben wrote:
I actually run 3 squads of sentinels in one of my lists.

3 Scout with 2-Autocannons/1-Missile w/searchlight
3 Scout with 2-Autocannons/1-Missile w/searchlight
3 Armoured with LasCannons

The rest of the list is mobile, vets in chimeras, Leman Russ' etc...

They do okay, but it's more of what they could potentially do that seems to have the most effect. For example, they can outflank which affects my opponents deployment. They can tarpit in a pinch against certain units. It is a fair number of armoured units, so force decisions regarding target priority.

I do find that I tend to have to focus them on one target though to make a meaningful impact in terms of damage.

But they can be versatile in a number of ways. And for a total of less than 400 points you are putting 9 walkers with heavy weapons on the field.

Sounds nice! Have you thought of putting hunter killers on your lascannon sentinels?

How do your lascannon sentinels perform?

ansacs wrote:
fallinq wrote:Oh, Hellhounds aren't anti-tank. They're just really good against infantry. So good that they are the best IG fast attack, head-and-shoulders above the rest, IMHO.

I would actually agree with you to some degree hellhounds probably arguably the best fast attack option in the IG codex. That is a very low bar with the only challenger being the significantly overpriced vendetta. The vendetta however at least performs a task which no other unit in the codex comes close to equaling. The hellhound is hands down worse than the wyvern in every way, except being in a less crowded slot.

BTW with forgeworld included the best fast attack option is the vulture with punisher cannon. That thing will average a 5 dead scatbikes a turn. Whereas the hellhound is lucky to average 1 dead scatbike.

fallinq wrote:Torrent and being able to move flat out and shoot gives them a very good threat range.

That does sound great...unfortunately it isn't true. The hellhound cannot flatout and shoot. What it can do is move up to 12" and shoot it's torrent flamer.

fallinq wrote:For any infantry less sturdy than MEQ, they're basically point and erase, no roll to hit or cover save. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. Even MEQ take a beating, since the Inferno Cannon wounds them on 2's. Being able to basically annihilate any infantry squad that gets within 36" of you is nothing to sneeze at. Vets may be able to take heavy flamers, but the short flame template range makes them much more limited.

The problem with hellhounds is two fold;
1) They do not annihilate any infantry unit even when they are less sturdy than MEQ. All you have to do is arrange the unit in a circle and the hellhound will hit approx half of them. Additionally there are lots of ways to mitigate damage; FnP, invulnerable saves, invisibility, flying, blocking LoS.
2) The worst part though is that it is a short range weapon with a rear armour 10. Many units that survive the shooting will just charge it and kill it (no overwatch). Combine this with the AV12 and what you find out is it is usually a 1 hit wonder except against the armies it actually works well against...in which case it dies first.

Also it should be noted that the average armour value is actually 3+. Saying units that are less durable than MEQ is actually talking about the lowest 20% of units durability wise.

fallinq wrote:Hellhounds are pretty great against a lot of things , and I think they're underrated, but if you're opponent runs vehicle spam then they wouldn't be very useful. My meta is mostly all-comers lists, so that's not a big problem for me. I prefer vets for my anti-vehicle. 3 Plasma Guns and a Lascannon in a BS4 squad is a pretty credible threat against all but the heaviest tanks, and Melta vets can hurt the big boys.

I also agree that they are underrated. They are really good at what they do but at a premium price for an IG vehicle.

However the reason they are underrated is exactly due to needing TAC lists. The hellhound is a niche weapon. Very very good against low anti tank armies with 4+ or worse saves. Which is essentially Orks, IG, and Skitarii these days. If hellhounds were priced similarily to their real competition; the wyvern, they would be a good unit. They would still be less TAC than the wyvern but they would have definite purpose. Being twice the points for a quarter the reliability and usually half the damage through a game is not a good place to be.

Colehkxix wrote:I like the idea of using Valks, but they're rather expensive and won't be on the board until turn 2-3.

Actually there are a bunch of ways to make IG armies work as a mobile force. Just the methods in the codex are very subpar.

The method I use quite a bit is a comms relay and ADL + infantry squads on the ground. I then add 2-3 vendetta's each with either a CCS w/ 4 plasma guns (a truly brutal shooting unit that can erase most threats in a single volley) or a SWS w/ 3 demo charges. Vendettas are significantly overpriced right now but they are still a good source of AA and anti tank while being a capable transport that can drop units the turn they arrive from reserves. BTW if you take CCS's in 2 vendetta's you can make a sarge in your infantry squads the warlord, that or get a priest or psyker to use as warlord. The 4x plasma CCS are cheap and mean but they are such huge threats that they always die.

If you have the forgeworld books then mobile IG becomes much more realistic and I have and do take on top tier builds with them regularly. BTW you do NOT need elysian models to run an elysian drop force. In fact the Cadian models actually make a pretty good looking force for this with the breathers and some toy parachutes skillfully applied. I personally use these rule with the old stormtrooper models.

The hades breach drill also can be used this regular vet models to make a 2 special weapon unit that can move 12" in the movement phase and gain a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting. Alternatively this unit can move 6" and then charge and have the possibility to take down an imperial knight in melee.

I actually have a Punisher Cannon Vulture, not assembled, in my room! I'll get around to it in time.

If not a Hellhound, how about an Inquisition Land Raider with S7 Ap3 Flamers?

CCS in Vendettas sound effective. How about Tempestus Scions? Do you think they would be somewhat effective in a Vendetta? I may take Creed and use Strategic Warlord Traits for the rerollable reserves, and add an Officer of Fleet for +1 to reserve rolls, to avoid almost all problems with getting fliers turn 2.

I will consider Forgeworld Options more as I make my army. Thanks for the recommendations!

Talizvar wrote:
Odd, why no thoughts on plasma sentinels?
The template weapon works around the low BS and is fairly inexpensive and can shoot at pretty much anything to good effect (except snap fire.)
They always become a concern to any army I faced.
Being able to stomp through difficult terrain is a bonus.
The only close second would be the scouting autocannon sentinels.
Hellhounds for the points just are not worth it in my opinion for what they do in comparison (Almost for the same points you can get a "proper" tank.)

After my bad experiences with my Executioner tank, and after facing T8 and AV14/13 vehicles, I find that plasma doesn't fulfill the anti armour role as much as I would have hoped. My main focus has been on lascannons because of the wraithknights and other Leman Russes I have come up against and yet found difficult to hurt.

**koooaei**

Scout sentinels are great - especially when you need a backfield disruptor or scout on an objective in ruins from the game start.

And don't forget, they're a fearless av10 tarpit that's so cheap it's gona pay off even if they tarpit a bunch of cultists.

**Colehkxix**

koooaei wrote:
Scout sentinels are great - especially when you need a backfield disruptor or scout on an objective in ruins from the game start.

And don't forget, they're a fearless av10 tarpit that's so cheap it's gona pay off even if they tarpit a bunch of cultists.

Do you really think that scout and move through cover is worth more than AV12 not-opened topped? It sounds good in theory but I'm worried they'll be too vulnerable of a target.

Tarpitting seems to work best with armoured sentinels too.

**SpookyRuben**

Someone asked the questions about how 3 LasCannon sentinels do. Well, the best answer I can give you is that in a 5 turn game you have 15 shots. Half hit. You might destroy a tank or perhaps several lighter vehicles in a game.

The truth is, the threat of 3 LasCannons is often more effective than the actual numerical breakdown of 3 LasCannons.

As for putting H&K missiles on. Nah... If you look at the cost of the H&K it almost adds up to another sentinel. I could see the argument that it adds a 'turn' of shooting to the squad if you took 3 (one one each). I suppose you could have a powerful alpha strike, but even then, 3LasCannon and 3H&K's still only average 3 hits.

**Talizvar**

Colehkxix wrote:
After my bad experiences with my Executioner tank, and after facing T8 and AV14/13 vehicles, I find that plasma doesn't fulfill the anti armour role as much as I would have hoped. My main focus has been on lascannons because of the wraithknights and other Leman Russes I have come up against and yet found difficult to hurt.

You may be trying to shoe-horn in a role that is not cost effective for the sentinel.

Your REAL considerations then:

Lascannon is expensive and you only hit 50% of the time and only a 1/3rd chance of doing any damage at all after that on armor with a sentinel. The 3 twin linked ones on the Vendetta get around some of this problem. Veterans firing lascannons will make a difference and even better if they are in order range.

Ordinance: it only hits side armor, look into what you would want to field that has that. Trying to remember if (suicide) scouting veterans with demo-charge can do this.

Melta: The extra D6 makes all the difference if you get close enough. The "Devil Dog" variant of hellhound with all that melta may help a bit. The melta-toting veterans in a chimera may do in a pinch. The 5 man melta Scions deep striking suicide squads tend to be used for those vehicles that really must die.

For high toughness critters you may have to lean on snipers.

I find you are better off thinking "What is best for killing X target" than "How can I get X unit to kill X target.", it is too hard.

**saithor**

Put autcoannons on them and go transport hunting and infantry killing. Sentinels suffer from having BS 3 and the fact that there are only 3 of them with an option of weapons that are mostly single-shot. They aren't normally going to be top priority for any psykers with Prescience you have, and they lack other means for more accurate hitting. Also their lack of armor means that they will evaporate easily. Best weapon choices are those that don't rely on BS as much to-hit, plasma cannons, which are okay for melting TEQ, or Autocannons where your going to be getting enough shots to generally offset the Sentinels average BS. A squad of sentinels vs a Rhino is going to get an average of 2 glances/pen, and can generally shred infantry pretty decently. And their cheap. Also as said above, their nice at tarpitting, and they have cool models. I'd like to field them just for that.

**Colehkxix**

SpookyRuben wrote:
Someone asked the questions about how 3 LasCannon sentinels do. Well, the best answer I can give you is that in a 5 turn game you have 15 shots. Half hit. You might destroy a tank or perhaps several lighter vehicles in a game.

The truth is, the threat of 3 LasCannons is often more effective than the actual numerical breakdown of 3 LasCannons.

As for putting H&K missiles on. Nah... If you look at the cost of the H&K it almost adds up to another sentinel. I could see the argument that it adds a 'turn' of shooting to the squad if you took 3 (one one each). I suppose you could have a powerful alpha strike, but even then, 3LasCannon and 3H&K's still only average 3 hits.

It seems I'll have to playtest them to find out! Mathhammer shows lascannons outperforming autocannons verses anything with a 3+ or better armour save. However that doesn't take into account any cover or invulnerable saves they might have. Against vehicles they perform drastically better.

I'll try with and without hunter killer missiles. I understand that they are expensive, however being able to output more damage in a shorter period of time may offset the cost.

It doesn't seem to be about hits, but actual damage.

Talizvar wrote:
Colehkxix wrote:
After my bad experiences with my Executioner tank, and after facing T8 and AV14/13 vehicles, I find that plasma doesn't fulfill the anti armour role as much as I would have hoped. My main focus has been on lascannons because of the wraithknights and other Leman Russes I have come up against and yet found difficult to hurt.
You may be trying to shoe-horn in a role that is not cost effective for the sentinel.

Your REAL considerations then:

Lascannon is expensive and you only hit 50% of the time and only a 1/3rd chance of doing any damage at all after that on armor with a sentinel. The 3 twin linked ones on the Vendetta get around some of this problem. Veterans firing lascannons will make a difference and even better if they are in order range.

Ordinance: it only hits side armor, look into what you would want to field that has that. Trying to remember if (suicide) scouting veterans with demo-charge can do this.

Melta: The extra D6 makes all the difference if you get close enough. The "Devil Dog" variant of hellhound with all that melta may help a bit. The melta-toting veterans in a chimera may do in a pinch. The 5 man melta Scions deep striking suicide squads tend to be used for those vehicles that really must die.

For high toughness critters you may have to lean on snipers.

I find you are better off thinking "What is best for killing X target" than "How can I get X unit to kill X target.", it is too hard.

I know Barrage hits side armour, but where does it say Ordinance hits side armour?

saithor wrote:
Put autcoannons on them and go transport hunting and infantry killing. Sentinels suffer from having BS 3 and the fact that there are only 3 of them with an option of weapons that are mostly single-shot. They aren't normally going to be top priority for any psykers with Prescience you have, and they lack other means for more accurate hitting. Also their lack of armor means that they will evaporate easily. Best weapon choices are those that don't rely on BS as much to-hit, plasma cannons, which are okay for melting TEQ, or Autocannons where your going to be getting enough shots to generally offset the Sentinels average BS. A squad of sentinels vs a Rhino is going to get an average of 2 glances/pen, and can generally shred infantry pretty decently. And their cheap. Also as said above, their nice at tarpitting, and they have cool models. I'd like to field them just for that.

I have been using Autocannons on my infantry/veteran squads for a while now, and find them rather underwhelming. Once I get some, I will try them with Autocannons anyway. Perhaps their higher mobility and lower cost compared to a full squad of men with lasguns will offset that.

However even against Rhinos, Lascannons seem more effective, if slightly less reliable.

**Talizvar**

Colehkxix wrote:
I know Barrage hits side armour, but where does it say Ordinance hits side armor?

You are correct: I had a mixed up memory: I new Ordnance helped, roll 2 dice, pick highest so that helps then if coupled with barrage and side armor hits it is pretty nice.

**Vaktathi**

I'm not at all a fan of basic sentinels. Between being equipped with a single BS3 gun and being AV10 HP2 and Open Topped, they're just way too easy to kill and don't deliver a reasonable volume of fire.

Armored Sentinels aren't great either, but can be usable if equipped with autocannons or lascannons, particularly as distraction/harrassment units that an opponent can't engage with superfluous anti-infantry weapons the way they can with normal sentinels, they actually have to devote some sort of meaningful weapon to kill them. They also make great tarpits against units that don't have anti-tank grenades or powerfists (hey Hormagaunts, lets sit here for the rest of the game with this one lonesome AV12 sentinel doing nothing!) and risk getting run down if they employ "Our Weapons are Useless".

**Lord Corellia**

I haven't used mine yet, but I just love how similar they look to AT-STs. They do seem reasonably effective for the points, and there aren't many great options for Guard fast attack anyway.

**Colehkxix**

Talizvar wrote:
Colehkxix wrote:
After my bad experiences with my Executioner tank, and after facing T8 and AV14/13 vehicles, I find that plasma doesn't fulfill the anti armour role as much as I would have hoped. My main focus has been on lascannons because of the wraithknights and other Leman Russes I have come up against and yet found difficult to hurt.
You may be trying to shoe-horn in a role that is not cost effective for the sentinel.

Your REAL considerations then:

Lascannon is expensive and you only hit 50% of the time and only a 1/3rd chance of doing any damage at all after that on armor with a sentinel. The 3 twin linked ones on the Vendetta get around some of this problem. Veterans firing lascannons will make a difference and even better if they are in order range.

Ordinance: it only hits side armor, look into what you would want to field that has that. Trying to remember if (suicide) scouting veterans with demo-charge can do this.

Melta: The extra D6 makes all the difference if you get close enough. The "Devil Dog" variant of hellhound with all that melta may help a bit. The melta-toting veterans in a chimera may do in a pinch. The 5 man melta Scions deep striking suicide squads tend to be used for those vehicles that really must die.

For high toughness critters you may have to lean on snipers.

I find you are better off thinking "What is best for killing X target" than "How can I get X unit to kill X target.", it is too hard.

After Mathhammering a bunch, I'm not quite sure Lascannon Sentinels are bad. Compared to any of the Leman Russes they actually seem quite good. However I see that Vendettas have more firepower for the points cost. I haven't used fliers before, so I don't know of any of the drawbacks they have compared to standard land units.

I am reluctant to give lascannons to heavy weapons teams, due to a lack of mobility and they cost 20 points each!

I already give everyone meltas. I might put Scions in a Vendetta when I get one and deep strike them from there.

Snipers might work for anything that isn't a vehicle or gargantuan creature.

Vaktathi wrote:
I'm not at all a fan of basic sentinels. Between being equipped with a single BS3 gun and being AV10 HP2 and Open Topped, they're just way too easy to kill and don't deliver a reasonable volume of fire.

Armored Sentinels aren't great either, but can be usable if equipped with autocannons or lascannons, particularly as distraction/harrassment units that an opponent can't engage with superfluous anti-infantry weapons the way they can with normal sentinels, they actually have to devote some sort of meaningful weapon to kill them. They also make great tarpits against units that don't have anti-tank grenades or powerfists (hey Hormagaunts, lets sit here for the rest of the game with this one lonesome AV12 sentinel doing nothing!) and risk getting run down if they employ "Our Weapons are Useless".

AV10 open topped puts me off a lot. I'm pretty firmly in the Armoured Sentinel camp. They seem very effective at tarpitting even those with krak grenades, who need to hit on a 4+ and then wound on a 6+ with their single attack. For that reason I do consider line heavy flamer sentinels as a good option.

Lord Corellia wrote:
I haven't used mine yet, but I just love how similar they look to AT-STs. They do seem reasonably effective for the points, and there aren't many great options for Guard fast attack anyway.

It does seem that guard lacks effective options in not only fast attack, but elites. Troops also only have 1 effective choice. Hopefully this is fixed with a new codex!

Edit: They do look pretty good too yeah.

**konst80hummel**

Another plus for the Scout Sentinels when used to tarpit infantry. They explode easily and after the opponnent has pilled in... Use that as you may, but my Scouts kill more by exploding.

**maceria**

I like scout sentinels with HK missiles and then some kind of cheap weapon. Multi-las is ok, but I usually prefer AC, for coolness. Outflank with them, then unload missiles and weapons into medium side armor. It's done me well for assassinating a specific backfield target so my guardsmen can move up and take objectives.

Anything they do after that is just for distraction.

**martin74**

I have been running this force lately, at 1750 points. It is mobile enough, you might like it.

Pask, punishier w/ heavy bolters, dozer blade
punisher w/ heavy bolters, dozer blade

Vet 1: plasma gun x2, heavy flamer, chimera
Vet 2: plasma gun x2, heavy flamer, chimera
Vet 3: melta gun x3, chimera

Vendetta
Scout Sentinel squad (3) auto cannons

Imperial knight (melta cannon one)

Storm troop squad (5): plasma gun x2, plasma pistol
Storm troop squad (5): melta gun x2

4 units in reserve most games, sometimes squad 3.

As far as the sentinels, I have rarely been underwhelmed by thier performance. The triple autocannon is good enough. I have scored a line breaker point more than I can count. Just keep scout sentinels away from any unit that can assault them. You have weapons with long range, use that advantage.

**ImpGuardPanzies**

Honestly scout sentinels are pretty good for outflanking with some flamers to kill those camping objectives all the way down the board. Also an easy way to get line breaker.

The armored sentinels with PC are great and fairly cheap, instead of investing a ton of points into transports and veterans you could run blobs, 30 conscripts in front to distract, eat the wounds, and act as bubble wrap. surrounding the armored sentinels w the pc with infantry
allows you to claim a cover save. Mobile weapons platform, allows you to move up the field with close support. grenade launchers in the infantry squads, 2 level 2 psykers and you're definitely covering some ground. Adding a vendetta with a special weapons squad to help you reinforce across the board is a good idea too.

**rahxephon**

Pretty much only run either armored with flamers to tarpit or scouts with multilasers and an HK. Autocannons have been a bit disappointing when I've run them, unreliable on armour and wounding infantry on 2s which the multilasers does anyway. So I'd rather the extra shot, HKs on them if I want to try knock around a transport.