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You could drop the Scouts for an Air Defense Force which comes in at 220 pts. Gives you an answer to flyers. Even if the enemy doesn't bring flyers, still solid against skimmers.

The AADF comes to 295 as you always want the 3rd stalker. 2 is inefficient you want 1 or 3 and you're not allowed 1 in an AADF...

Even if you keep the scouts, should they not get some special weapons, ass cannon or a melta or something on the LSS?

They will otherwise be mostly ignored as they zoom around the table with their small arms.

Why do you need AA? I am currently testing a white scars gladius in nova format, I have about 22 games with it so far and have very good success with it. I have not once wished I had aa, even when playing against 5-6 flyrants.

I originally used the scout formation, but I have had great success with the 1st company formation.

3 units of 5 sternguard in 3 pods, the ld buff is great when combined with tank shocks, also the 2Plus to wound ammo is great for killing High t monsters

 Zavvy wrote:
@jakejackjake what are you referring to? You quoted my whole post so I don't know what you're disagreeing with. I've seen 5 man units in rhinos with grav cannons do work,watch the 2 latest frontline gaming batreps, great example of using an army like this.

Nevermind. I thought you meant rhinos for the Tacs,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I see no value in AA with this list

 krootman. wrote:
Why do you need AA? I am currently testing a white scars gladius in nova format, I have about 22 games with it so far and have very good success with it. I have not once wished I had aa, even when playing against 5-6 flyrants.

I originally used the scout formation, but I have had great success with the 1st company formation.

3 units of 5 sternguard in 3 pods, the ld buff is great when combined with tank shocks, also the 2Plus to wound ammo is great for killing High t monsters

Do you take combi-weapons or use them bare-bones?

Grinner100101 wrote:You could drop the Scouts for an Air Defense Force which comes in at 220 pts. Gives you an answer to flyers. Even if the enemy doesn't bring flyers, still solid against skimmers.

I completely agree. This also gives you 2 extra units of vehicles which can sit on another objective and be a real pain in the ass to both Eldar and Necron alike - both their fliers and their skimmers. Not to mention that it'll come in handy against both Demons and Tyranids as well. AV12/12/10 is pretty nice.

FlingitNow wrote:The AADF comes to 295 as you always want the 3rd stalker. 2 is inefficient you want 1 or 3 and you're not allowed 1 in an AADF...

Not sure I really agree on this since 3 Stalkers is a bit overkill anyway IMO. I mean yes, you get ignores cover - which is awesome - but it is really just too easy to neutralize. I've played Stalkers for all of 6th edition and always loved them, but I would play 2 in this formation and put them in front of the Hunter to soak up HP. I never really thought the hunter was worth it until I realized it can actually make Flyrants Jink, something the Stalkers never could.

How do the Stalkers take HPs for the Hunter? 3 Stalkers is not overkill. You should down 2 flyers/skimmers a turn with them.

Agreed, i would take all 3 stalkers if i went that way.

I quite like the Sternguard idea, but the pts are too tight to bring 3 squads and they would be without combis

spartiatis wrote:

 krootman. wrote:
Why do you need AA? I am currently testing a white scars gladius in nova format, I have about 22 games with it so far and have very good success with it. I have not once wished I had aa, even when playing against 5-6 flyrants.

I originally used the scout formation, but I have had great success with the 1st company formation.

3 units of 5 sternguard in 3 pods, the ld buff is great when combined with tank shocks, also the 2Plus to wound ammo is great for killing High t monsters

Do you take combi-weapons or use them bare-bones?

spartiatis wrote:Agreed, i would take all 3 stalkers if i went that way.

I quite like the Sternguard idea, but the pts are too tight to bring 3 squads and they would be without combis

I run them nude, their ammo gets the job done in most situations.

To give you an idea how I run them heres my Scars list for nova format

Gladius with inq

Demi company x2
Khan
chappy with auspex
command squad with 5 meltas in pods x2
5 man tac squad in razorback x4
10 man tac squad 1 flamer in rhino x2
5 man assault squad 2 flamers in pod x2
5 man dev squad in razorback x2

1st company
5 man sternguard in pod x3

inq
1 inq with combi melta and 3 skulls
1850

The chappy and inq go with a cmd squad most of the time, and the army is very versatile in most situations.

I use the skulls to help the pods land on target and stop my opponent from scouting, also can out flank my entire army or scout it depending on the mission

 triplegrim wrote:
Even if you keep the scouts, should they not get some special weapons, ass cannon or a melta or something on the LSS?

They will otherwise be mostly ignored as they zoom around the table with their small arms.

Another option with Scouts, is to take a Scout Biker Unit with 3 Grenade Launchers and stick your Monster Captain in there, so he can scout and get real close to a unit Turn 1, and hopefully charge it. Depending on how you set up and who goes first, etc. Having a Captain tooled up on a bike, with say for example, Shield Eternal, Artificer and Thunder Hammer is almost unkillable if you place him reasonably well and move to support him. It makes use of otherwise a figure (unit) that may not see much action. Of course you can put him in a command squad of bikers, or something similar, but this is just an option so you can free up your Fast Attack slot for EVEN MORE free Razorback goodness, or drop pods.

Play a game, realize hit and run isnt going to do what you think it will, and come back here. Until then the list is fine imo

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Play a game, realize hit and run isnt going to do what you think it will, and come back here. Until then the list is fine imo

Hit and run is fantastic, you should not bank on it winning you games, but its great to sling shot yourself to where you need to be, tie units up in combat that could do much more damage with shooting, and it really messes with your opponents head because sometimes him charging you will actually help you more then it will hurt you.

If you fail it, oh well...its going to happen, if you pass it its just a nice bonus.

Returning to the thread, i have modified the list to what seems to me to be the most versatile and lethal version.

Please review:


Khan - Moondrakkan
Chaplain - Bike

Command Squad - Bikes, apothecary, 4x grav-guns, razorback HB
Command Squad - 4x meltagun, Drop Pod

Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod
Tac Squad (5 men) - meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod

Land Speeder - HB, typhoon ML
Land Speeder - HB, typhoon ML

Dev Squad (5 men) - 4x lascannons, razorback las/plas
Centurion Devastator squad - 3x Grav Cannons


Suppression Force:
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Land Speeder


Obviously, Khan and Chappie join the Bike command Squad to create a versatile unit.
With Cents i get a second grav unit, which is too slow, so i plan to walk them midfield and shoot whatever comes within 24"
The list seems to have enough anti-tank, anti-2+, anti-horde and can potentially ignore fliers or try to take them down by sheer volume of fire and re-rolls.

Thoughts?? Is it worth building it?
Thanks!

You may want SS on your Command Bikers.
After much time googling, and mainly in the interest of grey areas/fair play I still say your Bikes cant take a Razorback.
Try and get MMs on your Land Speeders.

The razorback is not even remotely a grey area. It is completely and obviously allowed. If they wanted bikes to prevent you from purchasing a transport they'd had worded it like the Assault Marines.

Rubbish, you mean GW have every unit worded solidly in Black And White? Come on, really?

A bike squad taking a transport is nuts.

Look at a normal bike squad - can they take two transports? No.

Common sense should apply and not exploiting a grey area. But anyway, you disagree, I think the opposite. Many people will be for and against us, so lets not argue any more. If he wants to take them and explain then fine. Some people will say fine, some people will argue it. But lets not go over it yet again.

It is not a grey area though. There is no doubt in the rules. Just your opinion on what the rules should be. So stop saying it is a grey area when you know full well it isn't. It may be "cheese" or "gamey" but it is in no way a grey area there is literally nothing that even suggests that Command Squads may not be able to take transports. Not a thing.

That is your opinion. And I think you are misinterpreting the RAW. But that is fine, I totally take your point.

spartiatis wrote:
Returning to the thread, i have modified the list to what seems to me to be the most versatile and lethal version.

Please review:


Khan - Moondrakkan
Chaplain - Bike

Command Squad - Bikes, apothecary, 4x grav-guns, razorback HB
Command Squad - 4x meltagun, Drop Pod

Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - plasmagun, combi-plasma, razorback, tl-assault cannon
Tac Squad (5 men) - meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod
Tac Squad (5 men) - meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod

Land Speeder - HB, typhoon ML
Land Speeder - HB, typhoon ML

Dev Squad (5 men) - 4x lascannons, razorback las/plas
Centurion Devastator squad - 3x Grav Cannons


Suppression Force:
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Land Speeder


Obviously, Khan and Chappie join the Bike command Squad to create a versatile unit.
With Cents i get a second grav unit, which is too slow, so i plan to walk them midfield and shoot whatever comes within 24"
The list seems to have enough anti-tank, anti-2+, anti-horde and can potentially ignore fliers or try to take them down by sheer volume of fire and re-rolls.

Thoughts?? Is it worth building it?
Thanks!

I think the supression force is a waste of time, I have played against it and watched it played, and frankly its not worth it. I would rather have 15 bolter scouts if you are going for the cheapest aux formation

Also I dont think the plasma combi plasma are worth it on the razors, they have to get out to fire them and once they get out they are most likely dead. Id keep the tac squads naked. I also am not sure about the cmd bikes, at the end of the day they are still marines..... I have been having great success with cheap melta gun cmd squads.

Also no matter what you do with your cmd squads, give your chaplin an auspex

Agreed on the auspex, as is, the list is 1845 pts, so i know now how to spend the last 5 pts

I take the suppression out of necessity, not completely sold on it. WWs are hit or miss and even if they hit, the enemy unit must be clumped together to do damage.
They provide though a nice long range anti-horde theoretically. Why do you believe scouts are better?

How do your run your command squads? 4x meltagun in a pod?

 Nostromo 69 wrote:
That is your opinion. And I think you are misinterpreting the RAW. But that is fine, I totally take your point.

If I'm misinterpreting the RaW please quote a rule that states taking bikes has ANY impact on whether the unit can take a transport or not. Literally anything that even hints your made up rules are correct?

There are loads of units that can take transports they can not be transported in, so why is the command squad special? Post some rules to support your interpretation or rescind your bizarre claims.

I honestly liked your very first list, except maybe instead of asssault cannons do the plasma/lascannon razors. but that is just my flavor. scouts are bad ass, people really underestimate them, and will add to the scout alpha strike you are going for with the first list. flyers should not give you a problem except maybe pentyrants which on are the decline and not so good at maelstrom. eldar flyers are not anti infantry and cannot engage enough targets to seriously affect you. your 1-2nd turns should deal enough damage to most ground forces that it will be clean up after that point.

spartiatis wrote:
Agreed on the auspex, as is, the list is 1845 pts, so i know now how to spend the last 5 pts

I take the suppression out of necessity, not completely sold on it. WWs are hit or miss and even if they hit, the enemy unit must be clumped together to do damage.
They provide though a nice long range anti-horde theoretically. Why do you believe scouts are better?

How do your run your command squads? 4x meltagun in a pod?

1) I used the scouts as my first option before the sternguard, I usually outflanked them to help get line breaker, and pick off weak backfield units, it was also nice having some counter infiltrate if you needed to keep some distance between you and your opponent.
I eventually ended up swamping the scouts for the sternguard because I wanted my aux force to actually do something rather then be the cheapest least worthless option on the table (aka scouts)

2) I run them both with 5 meltas and a pod, great for an alpha strike or to spot kill something that needs to die late game. I swap their bolt pistols with melta guns and keep the bolters incase I need the extra shots vs hordes outside of cover.

Sternguard are my favorite SM unit and i would love to take them but i can not find a way to fit them in a Gladius. They are too many pts and they have to pay for their transport...