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Ok so the full release of the new rulebook is on the horizon and having backed the kickstarter I'm waiting impatiently to get started. I was originally planning on doing an Kingdoms of Men army using the wargames factory samurai/yari models however having planned that army for both KoW and WHFB the release of AoS has somewhat let the wind out of my sails for that particular project and due to various reasons everything has ended up in storage and I can't get to it right now. I'll return to them at some point but only once I'm able to dig them out again and the bitter taste of AoS is out of my mouth (I still plan to try AoS mind you, can't do any harm after all).

Getting to my point I still want to do a KoM army as it gives me an excuse to build and play games with some of the multitude of lovely historical minis that are out there. So I've picked up a box of Victrix Republican Roman Legionaries (£30 for 60 plastic minis yes please) and I have some questions about how to field them. It's possible to build multiple types of legionaries. The Triari are armed with a long spear and I think would make a perfect pike or heavy pike unit. The Principes and Hastati are both armed with a pilum which could probably be best represented by the good old spear phalanx. However the box also contains some javelin armed Velites (or earlier Leves), which gives me a bit of a problem, there don't seem to be any suitable javelin armed units in the game even though the rulebook contains rules for javelins. Any idea what I could use these guys as? I did think about archers but a 24" hurl of a javelin seems to be a bit too much of a stretch of believability.

Here is a fuller version of the current lists
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/edit#gid=1642606802

It's not 100% confirmed as the same as the ones on their website, and there are a couple of small differences in the Ogre list that are confirmed, but it's more complete than the one on Mantic's site.

As for your Velites, Bowmen would be the closest/best option for the time being. I'm informed though that "semi-official" proper Historical historical lists are in the works, and they should have more appropriate units and values. I'm also (eventually) doing Romans, Greeks/Spartans/Macedonians/Celts and a bunch of other historical forces, so I'm also awaiting those lists and using KoM in the interim.

There are also these lists, which will be growing to include most of the "Not-Warhammer" armies, but currently includes "The League of Rhordia" which is half the parts of "The Empire" that KoM are lacking, and half Halflings. Perhaps something like the unit entry for Halfling Scouts could work better than bog-standard "bowmen"?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=644257362

I was using the beta lists as my reference point anyway, not bothered to download the free pdfs. Might as well wait for my kickstarter pdf really.

I'll be interested to see how those historical lists work out. Though since I want to add some fantastical elements to my army, like say some chariots (which of course the Romans didn't use in warfare, at least to my knowledge) or perhaps some Roman themed ogres. I'm probably stuck with the KoM list.

The Halfling Scouts could definitely work instead of just being archers. The special rules all point to light skirmishing infantry which is pretty much what the Velites are.

Thanks for your thoughts.

EDIT:

Hmm it would have helped if I had actually taken a proper look at the kit before I started thinking about army builds. Looking at the sprues there are a rather large number (21 I think) of gladius arms included. This really open things up. So combined with the other Republican Roman kit Victrix offer (legionaires in the lighter pectoral armour) I've not got a much wider range of options.

So the way I see this working now is:

legionaires with pectoral armour and pilum = spear phalanx
legionaires with chainmail and gladius = foot guard
legionaires with chainmail and long spear = heavy pike block
the Velites can stay as archers or halfling scouts or whatever they end up being.
a spare centurion from the command sprue will make a fine foot general
finally a spare standard bearer will do as an army standard bearer

So with one of each box I could easily field something like this

Heroes:

General: 100pts
Army Standard Bearer: 50pts

Regular Units:

Foot Guard (Regiment): 135pts
Heavy Pike Block (Regiment): 165pts
Spear Phalanx (Regiment): 120pts
Spear Phalanx (Regiment): 120pts

Allies:

Halfling Scouts (Troop): 90pts
Halfling Scouts (Troop): 90pts
Halfling Scouts (Troop): 90pts
Halfling Scouts (Troop): 90pts

Now I know that this list isn't legal, too many points of allies and no regiments to allow the troops either. So maybe jsut using archers might be a better idea but either way with some extra units like say cavalry, maybe a ballista or two and of course magic items it will be a very nice core of infantry for the army. Of course there's also the option of using the spear phalanx as a horde to consider.

I am not sure you are correct in the use of the Pilium. . It was heavy with a long head if iron. . It was thrown right before contact (or after from the back rank) but not used en mass. That was the job of the Gladius and that large shield. . . The Pilium at best would wound or kill those without shield, or if it hit the sheild the iron tip was designed to imbed in the shield and the long iron head would bend. . You could not throw it back, and if it was stuck in your shield ypu would have to discard your shield. . I would speculate Mantic will give roman regular infantry Headstrong, elite, and something like they use for throwing mastiff's and undead rats that like them you use once to do something special. . Another group that did this in the opposite direction was the Franks with throwinv axes right before contact. . Again with the hope of injury or death, but more likely causing the opponent having to lose his shield or fight off balance due to an axe in it. . .

Yeah I do know how the pilum was actually used. However I'm planning on using the miniatures as modelled. So using them as a spear makes some kind of sense given what rules are available. Yes ideally they should be something along the lines of the shield wall unit with a rule similar to the dwarf throwing mastiff.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
I was using the beta lists as my reference point anyway, not bothered to download the free pdfs. Might as well wait for my kickstarter pdf really.

I'll be interested to see how those historical lists work out. Though since I want to add some fantastical elements to my army, like say some chariots (which of course the Romans didn't use in warfare, at least to my knowledge) or perhaps some Roman themed ogres. I'm probably stuck with the KoM list.

The Halfling Scouts could definitely work instead of just being archers. The special rules all point to light skirmishing infantry which is pretty much what the Velites are.

Thanks for your thoughts.

.....

Now I know that this list isn't legal, too many points of allies and no regiments to allow the troops either. So maybe jsut using archers might be a better idea but either way with some extra units like say cavalry, maybe a ballista or two and of course magic items it will be a very nice core of infantry for the army. Of course there's also the option of using the spear phalanx as a horde to consider.

It really depends on who you intend to play against, and how (ahem) anal they are. One of the sub-armies I'm building is "Mythical Greeks" for my wife - which (when finished) will be made up of the usual Hoplites and Peltasts (Warlord, Foundry, WGF), but also Bronze Bulls, Skeletons (Hydra's Teeth), a Hydra, Chimerae, Pegasi, Unicorns, Amazons (WGF), The Argonauts (Foundry), an Oracle, Harpies, Greek Ogres (Godslayer), Talos (Mierce) and whatever else fits the theme, with their stats taken wholesale from both the KoM list as well as the other armies that they come from. I'll never use them in a tournament, and the force will be built to look awesome with no thought to being a cheesy combo. I've already bought all of the above models excepting the Argonauts. I just need to clean off the years of half-finished models cluttering my shelves and desk before I allow myself to start the new projects. Still need to buy some cool looking hellhounds based on Cerberus/Orthrus and the new Macedonian Cavalry from Warlord.

Once the Historical lists come out (which to be fair will probably be long before I get all that lot painted) I'll just change the "KoM" profiles for the Hoplites and such to the inevitably very similar proper Greeks' ones.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

lees_shadow wrote:
I am not sure you are correct in the use of the Pilium. . It was heavy with a long head if iron. . It was thrown right before contact (or after from the back rank) but not used en mass. That was the job of the Gladius and that large shield. . . The Pilium at best would wound or kill those without shield, or if it hit the sheild the iron tip was designed to imbed in the shield and the long iron head would bend. . You could not throw it back, and if it was stuck in your shield ypu would have to discard your shield. . I would speculate Mantic will give roman regular infantry Headstrong, elite, and something like they use for throwing mastiff's and undead rats that like them you use once to do something special. . Another group that did this in the opposite direction was the Franks with throwinv axes right before contact. . Again with the hope of injury or death, but more likely causing the opponent having to lose his shield or fight off balance due to an axe in it. . .

Sounds like the Thunderous Charge rule to me.

Nice work with the Greek mythology based stuff. Whilst the group I play with aren't the most serious lot we do tend to stick to the rules as much as possible usually because it makes life easier.

I've been building some of the Romans I got my grubby mitts on and Victrix really have done a good job with them, loads of lovely details and a joy to put together being usually only 4 parts; body (inc left arm), right arm, head, shield. Quick and easy but with lots of differences between individual models, perfect for rank and file IMO.

I'm starting to finalise my plans a little bit having given the subject plenty of thought this morning. The core infantry of the army I'm going to keep relatively elite and limit it to two units. Foot Guard and Heavy Pike. Support with come in the form of Mounted Sergeants, Bowmen and Beasts of War.

The list I'm thinking of now looks something like this:

Heroes:

General: 100pts
Army Standard Bearer: 50pts

These two might end up mounted not sure yet

Infantry:

Principes (Foot Guard) Regiment: 135pts
Principes (Foot Guard) Regiment: 135pts

Triari (Heavy Pike Block) Regiment: 165pts
Triari (Heavy Pike Block) Regiment: 165pts

Velites (Bowmen) Troop: 75pts
Velites (Bowmen) Troop: 75pts
Velites (Bowmen) Troop: 75pts
Velites (Bowmen) Troop: 75pts

Cavarly:

Equites (Mounted Sergeants) Regiment: 160pts
Equites (Mounted Sergeants) Regiment: 160pts

Artillery:

Scorpio (Ballista): 60pts
Scorpio (Ballista): 60pts

Monsters:

War Elephant (Beast of War): 210pts

That lot comes to 1700pts which is pretty close to a standard size game. I am very tempted to throw a second elephant in there but I think just the one will make a great centrepiece for the army. Not really sure what else to add to get up to 2000pts but I will obviously be throwing at least some magic items at the army so I want to keep some points back for that. To represent the fact that Velites were skirmishers I will be modelling them as about 6 or 7 men per troop as opposed to a full 10 men, it also makes up for the fact that there are only 18 per Victrix box.

It really depends on who you intend to play against, and how (ahem) anal they are. One of the sub-armies I'm building is "Mythical Greeks" for my wife - which (when finished) will be made up of the usual Hoplites and Peltasts (Warlord, Foundry, WGF), but also Bronze Bulls, Skeletons (Hydra's Teeth), a Hydra, Chimerae, Pegasi, Unicorns, Amazons (WGF), The Argonauts (Foundry), an Oracle, Harpies, Greek Ogres (Godslayer), Talos (Mierce) and whatever else fits the theme, with their stats taken wholesale from both the KoM list as well as the other armies that they come from. I'll never use them in a tournament, and the force will be built to look awesome with no thought to being a cheesy combo. I've already bought all of the above models excepting the Argonauts. I just need to clean off the years of half-finished models cluttering my shelves and desk before I allow myself to start the new projects. Still need to buy some cool looking hellhounds based on Cerberus/Orthrus and the new Macedonian Cavalry from Warlord.

Once the Historical lists come out (which to be fair will probably be long before I get all that lot painted) I'll just change the "KoM" profiles for the Hoplites and such to the inevitably very similar proper Greeks' ones

Sounds really cool - have you looked at the Wargods of Olympus stuff - I have a Amazon army from them and its pretty glorious Plus Bronze Bull etc

Yeah, Fitz' stuff is great and definitely in the radar for some elite troops down the line.