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So I've recently gotten back into 40k after a break since 3rd ed. I've built a necron army and a grey knights army since coming back. I've definitely found my necrons to be incredibly durable (especially when ran as a decurian detachment). I've been scratching my head for a while as to gw's reason for pumping out such a powerful codex along with the other recent books. I think I finally figured it out though. This seems to shorten games. Why does that matter? Well, my flgs stopped running 40k game days a while back because of how long games would take. Does this seem right? Has gw offered any other explanation? Let me know your thoughts.

Doesn't seem related. Game length is directly related to the amount of models you have to move around on the table which the massive power creep doesn't help because it made models cheaper so now you can take more and in Necron's case they are so much more durable that you remove less models from the table and so you have more models to move around later in the game.

Also GW doesn't profit from making games shorter. It's not like you get charged each time you play so they are trying to make you play more individual games. They are trying to make you buy more models (which in turn make the game take longer).

 CrownAxe wrote:
Doesn't seem related. Game length is directly related to the amount of models you have to move around on the table which the massive power creep doesn't help because it made models cheaper so now you can take more and in Necron's case they are so much more durable that you remove less models from the table and so you have more models to move around later in the game.

Also GW doesn't profit from making games shorter. It's not like you get charged each time you play so they are trying to make you play more individual games. They are trying to make you buy more models (which in turn make the game take longer).

This. I doubt game length is related, GW obviously doesn't care rules wise. More than likely they use power creep to encourage people to run our and bug new shiny armies.

Yeah, as a Necron player, their durability does not help game length, at all.

GW is incompetent. That is all.

It is not just the number of models. There is a ton of rolling, people didn't have to do in editions before 7th edition.

I've bought most of the recent codicies, but scratch my head when I look at things the Blood Angel Tacs getting Heavy Flamers and not being able to take Assault Troops as Troops, then Salamaders NOT getting heavy flamers on Tacs, etc.

There seems to be quite a lot of this lately where GW (or whoever are writing the rules) seem to forget the very essence of some armies and just pretty much do what they want.

Also the fluff is a bit weak compared to how it used to be. The artwork is good but feels too clean and shiny and lack depth or soul compared to the epic artwork that we have had int he past. Its hard to explain but they feel like a shop catalogue rather than an escape in the realms of 40k where there is only war and death, if you know what I mean.

I think they have lost their way a little and need to get back on track, before even more people leave.

The other annoying thing is that they are not swapping the power levels around (it'd be better just to even it up though tbh)...
Top of 6th ed:
SM, Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Daemons
Bottom of 6th ed:
CSM, Orks, BA, DE, AM, Nids

Now lets forget Tau and Daemons a minute as they haven't had a new dex released. AM and nids were released just before 7th, most of 6th they had another dex, so I am counting them as having a new dex. Classing KDK as the new version of CSM (yes I know it has Daemons) for the sake of conparison.

Top of current 7th ed:
SM, Eldar, Necrons
Bottom of current 7th ed
CSM, Orks, BA, DE, AM, Nids

The only change in power tier from all the new dexes is DA so far. Good on them - they needed it. But eventually all the CSM, Ork, BA, DE, AM and Nid players are going to get fed up.

Poly Ranger wrote:
The other annoying thing is that they are not swapping the power levels around (it'd be better just to even it up though tbh)...
Top of 6th ed:
SM, Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Daemons
Bottom of 6th ed:
CSM, Orks, BA, DE, AM, Nids

Now lets forget Tau and Daemons a minute as they haven't had a new dex released. AM and nids were released just before 7th, most of 6th they had another dex, so I am counting them as having a new dex. Classing KDK as the new version of CSM (yes I know it has Daemons) for the sake of conparison.

Top of current 7th ed:
SM, Eldar, Necrons
Bottom of current 7th ed
CSM, Orks, BA, DE, AM, Nids

The only change in power tier from all the new dexes is DA so far. Good on them - they needed it. But eventually all the CSM, Ork, BA, DE, AM and Nid players are going to get fed up.

I agree with you. I'm not sure why they kept the top-tier armies at the top. With Necrons, they nerfed everything people complained about, but gave them other toys. And Eldar and Space Marines (being updated before other much-needed codexes) we assumed would have all of their cheese brought in line. They didn't go the Necron route, they let them keep all their cheese, if not get more of it.

And knowing GW, Chaos will still be terrible in their new book.

I took a 3 year break after 5th edition - like OP - so i know what you mean when you ask about codexes coming back.

I feel the same as others have stated here... its all just to sell more models. They stopped caring about game-play entirely after 5th edition

 greyknight12 wrote:
GW is incompetent. That is all.

So why do you support them? Just go play something else instead of posting useless posts. GW will do just fine without you!

 Icelord wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
GW is incompetent. That is all.

So why do you support them? Just go play something else instead of posting useless posts. GW will do just fine without you!

Hmmm...thread title is thoughts about recent codex release. Discussion goes on about power level or deliberate changes to speed up games. Someone says its because GW is incompetent at writing rules (a totally plausible explanation), and you chirp up by telling him to shut up or get out.

Tell me again who's posting useless posts?

As for the OP, GW doesn't offer explanations typically, nor do they perform any market research or communicate with the customer base. We simply don't know why they do most things, but the execution of many of their products does indeed indicate that there is a break down somewhere in the design team or between them and other more business oriented departments that produces questionable rules or products.

The funny thing is you feel that there is a true design team. When will you get the point that they don't care about the rules. Either use them or don't. Trying to rationalize their thinking is pointless and a waste of time.

 Icelord wrote:
The funny thing is you feel that there is a true design team. When will you get the point that they don't care about the rules. Either use them or don't. Trying to rationalize their thinking is pointless and a waste of time.

Which also doesn't disagree with the idea that they're incompetent...which kind of makes your first post in this thread an unnecessary way to remove any sort of nay-saying about GW/40k.

When will you get the point that many people do care about the rules, and discussing them on a forum in a thread about the rules is a normal and acceptable thing to do? Don't like reading it, then don't read it.

Actually I love reading it. I truly enjoy the game. I don't mind super heavies or re animation protocols or anything.

If you want a truly balanced game go play chess. Model games will never be "balanced". A game based on dice with this many rules can't be.

It has never been either. 3.5 csm. Rhino rush days. Gk craziness. Sorry to pop your dream bubble but the game isn't going to change directions. It would be easier if you changed hobbies.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Doesn't seem related. Game length is directly related to the amount of models you have to move around on the table which the massive power creep doesn't help because it made models cheaper so now you can take more and in Necron's case they are so much more durable that you remove less models from the table and so you have more models to move around later in the game.

Also GW doesn't profit from making games shorter. It's not like you get charged each time you play so they are trying to make you play more individual games. They are trying to make you buy more models (which in turn make the game take longer).

You're correct for the first turn, but I find in the first two turns because the models in play are more powerful you end up removing more. Games get shorter for sure. They are related even when I play with a million wounds/HP's on board


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 Icelord wrote:
Actually I love reading it. I truly enjoy the game. I don't mind super heavies or re animation protocols or anything.

If you want a truly balanced game go play chess. Model games will never be "balanced". A game based on dice with this many rules can't be.

It has never been either. 3.5 csm. Rhino rush days. Gk craziness. Sorry to pop your dream bubble but the game isn't going to change directions. It would be easier if you changed hobbies.

Chess is not balanced. Whoever goes first wins unless you suck.


40k is more balanced if you don't only play one army or refuse to ally


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's not because they are incompetant. This always happens. New books come out, people moan, some rejoice. Everything settles down

 Icelord wrote:
Actually I love reading it. I truly enjoy the game. I don't mind super heavies or re animation protocols or anything.

Good for you. Maybe you'll refrain from telling people to shut up or go away then.

If you want a truly balanced game go play chess. Model games will never be "balanced". A game based on dice with this many rules can't be.

Oh, this tired argument again. You understand that many, many other miniature games are significantly more balanced, right? So, logic would then dictate that since other games can manage far better balance, 40k could then be similarily better balanced.

It has never been either. 3.5 csm. Rhino rush days. Gk craziness. Sorry to pop your dream bubble but the game isn't going to change directions. It would be easier if you changed hobbies.

And another great argument.

"Its never been balanced, so stop complaining about it."

First of all, the ridiculousness of that should be immediately apparent. Just because something has always been gakky, doesn't mean it should continue to be gakky.

Second of all, it also ignores that there could be a ramping up of balance issues that are finally reaching a breaking point for many players. Hence why there may be people only leaving now, instead of back in the rhino rush days. Balance issues aren't all the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jakejackjake wrote:
It's not because they are incompetant. This always happens. New books come out, people moan, some rejoice. Everything settles down

It could very well be incompetence, or any number of issues. GW has published many books that are fundamentally flawed (in that they literally can't function in the game) which can only be attributed to a lack of proof-reading, play testing, and/or general incompetence to writing rules.

The balance issues are much the same. There appears to be very little to no play testing, or at least meaningful testing.