Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

7) Aun'Va gains 8D6 Strength D Hammer of Wrath attacks from his pimp chair, 12" movement, 4D6" run and charge distance and can assault after running. Also gains a 2++ save, Eternal Warrior and 10W. Becomes a Lord of War. Gets points decrease.

This made me laugh, and I still wouldn't field him.

 carldooley wrote:
that is one of the things that a nova reactor could do for a hammerhead. Just as it gives a riptide options, it could do the same for vehicles, hence the signature system or upgrade , option.
What could the nova options be?
My choices would be:
StrD for the railing or haywire for the ion cannon or,
Shoot all weapons twice or,
Flyer rules for a turn (as well as the ability to enter ongoing reserves) or,
3+ Cover.

Yours?

These are all great suggestions. I have a feeling that if the new missile suit (rumored) is true then it will be limited shot D weapons, like seekers but nuclear! It would be awesome if there was a way to add 1 shot D weapons to our heavy tanks as well. Your Nova suggestions are probably better though.

I like the nova suggestion too!

And as long as it does not create no-brainer hammerhead armies (correct point cost), because i still have to get over my annoyance of the Tau flying circus of the 4th "skimmer" edition. I don't field broken units on general principle and it took me a long time before i wanted to field any hammerheads again...

I quite like the Tau as they are now.
A few units need a small boost/fix and Tau need a tiny bit of help (but not too much) against the number of titans in the current meta.

Not reading the whole thread. What I would like to see is a Decurion setup which should happen as that seems to be the current format.
Start with say 2 or 3 squads of firewarriors(of whatever flavor)
A Crisis team
An HQ
Then open up different formations
Crisis Formation 3 squads of crisis suits
Fire Support cadre
1-3 Riptide(of whatever flavor, hopefully hey will include FW options(not going to hold my breath on that or even be disappointed when it doesn't happen)
Recon formation with pathfinders, stealth suits, and piranhas.
Tank formation with hammerhead squadrons
Anti-air formation with skyrays
Air Formation that makes the aircraft useful.

Hoping in the new FW book which supposedly comes out in the near future, FW will switch to a formation format which allows their stuff to go into decurions, thus allowing their use again without a CAD.

if the next tau codex is formatted like the SM codex, I hope that we get something like a Firewarrior squad or Pathfinder squad for each other detachment taken in the army. Call it a tax if you want, but those two units taken in spades would cause even more hate than anything we have dealt with before.

Seriously though, the requirement to take a FW or Pathfinder squad for each HQ, Elite, FA, or Heavy slot would be thematic, fluffy, and force people to buy MOAR models. If anything, it would be FW only, but I could hope for a buffing unit like pathfinders as well.

Martel732 wrote:
Heavy rail rifle should be S8 AP1 armorbane, with an additional +1 to the result, AP 0 if you will. You will still probably see all missile pods, but at least I tried.

The rail gun on the Hammerhead should be straight up Str D.

"Markerlight nerf -1 cover in exchange for more networked markerlights "

Maybe. With all the jinking units, though, I think 2 lights for ignore cover is fair. Just nerf the IA badly. Ignore cover on other Tau weapons isn't as obnoxious.

Are you kidding me? Ignore cover is just about THE most obnoxious thing Tau have. I don't even play half my armies against Tau because they almost solely rely on cover saves..

DaPino wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Heavy rail rifle should be S8 AP1 armorbane, with an additional +1 to the result, AP 0 if you will. You will still probably see all missile pods, but at least I tried.

The rail gun on the Hammerhead should be straight up Str D.

"Markerlight nerf -1 cover in exchange for more networked markerlights "

Maybe. With all the jinking units, though, I think 2 lights for ignore cover is fair. Just nerf the IA badly. Ignore cover on other Tau weapons isn't as obnoxious.

Are you kidding me? Ignore cover is just about THE most obnoxious thing Tau have. I don't even play half my armies against Tau because they almost solely rely on cover saves..

Really? Cry me a river because the power armor saves I PAID POINTS FOR are ignored all the time by AP 2 spam. But you can't handle Tau paying points to ignore cover that YOU GET FOR FREE? What do you do on table with little cover? Pack up and quit? Because some battles do take place in relatively open areas, like Eastern European/Western Russia battles from WWII.

Armies that have poor saves usually have a lot of wounds per point, and so are superior at soaking many of the popular weapons in the game. One of the big liabilities of power armor in the game is that meqs frequently get no benefit at all from cover.

I'd be perfectly fine with cover going down to a modifier rather than being ignored.

Personally I always thought "ignores cover" should remove terrain advantages but not that of gear that grants stealth/shroud and such.

Markerlights still cost points and they are hard to allocate at times because marker sources can't split their fire. Getting a unit a good cover save works really well to force target priority and soak up marker tokens. If you're so sure that cover won't matter why not just avoid it all together and move straight through the open sections of the field?

Hello
i want them to remove homing from the smart missle system.
i want a stealth suit commander.
i want a gue 'vesa
i want units of just krootoxs.
i want riptides to be more expensive.
i want the codex to be nerfed just enuogh to let people play and... you know... HAVE FUN

hanshotfirst wrote:
Hello
i want them to remove homing from the smart missle system.
i want a stealth suit commander.
i want a gue 'vesa
i want units of just krootoxs.
i want riptides to be more expensive.
i want the codex to be nerfed just enuogh to let people play and... you know... HAVE FUN

All i want is for ALL Options to be viable so we can have a "Variety" of ways to play instead of bog standard point and erase

so we can have.... Fum?

i also want no more ignores cover. markerlights to be 2 pts per model on a pathfinder and i want battle suits to come with burst cannons stock. i also think farsight should get +1 ws +1 wound a 3+ invul eternal warrior IWND and moved to lords of war.

I don't suppose that there has been any proposed rules for the supremacy armor, or if it is a troll?

personally, something I'd like it to have, (or something similar if it doesn't make it into a codex or supplement) is something like a capacitor system. If you have read my previous posts in this thread there is no secret that I'd like there to be access to Nova Reactors on platforms other than riptides, but I'd like to see a superheavy walker or gmc with something along the lines of capacitance banks, where you don't have to roll for the use of it, but you can have any number of charges at the start of the game and roll a dice for each one remaining at the beginning of your turn. And if you roll a (pick a number, but hopefully only one) it suffers a D hit or something else horrible.

Only thing known about the Supremacy Armor so far is that it is a Superheavy Walker.

Martel732 wrote:


Really? Cry me a river because the power armor saves I PAID POINTS FOR are ignored all the time by AP 2 spam. But you can't handle Tau paying points to ignore cover that YOU GET FOR FREE? What do you do on table with little cover? Pack up and quit? Because some battles do take place in relatively open areas, like Eastern European/Western Russia battles from WWII.

Armies that have poor saves usually have a lot of wounds per point, and so are superior at soaking many of the popular weapons in the game. One of the big liabilities of power armor in the game is that meqs frequently get no benefit at all from cover.

You might not have an armor save, but in most cases, at least you have a cover save. Unless of course I'm playing Tau. Tau have no shortage of spammable AP2 themselves by the way.

I "got cover for free"? So what, so did my opponent. Unless, of course, I'm playing against Tau, then only he almost exclusively gets the benefit of having cover until I remove his markerlights.

The thing is, it's not just the infantry blobs with the poor saves that get royaly F'd over by those markerlights. It's also that 2+ elite unit I've got in my army. It's also any vehicle that's not AV14.
Your armor save gets denied by AP2 spam? Well both armor and cover saves are being denied to me because of AP2 ignore cover spam.

And not every army that has a poor save has a numerical advantage. Yes there are some, like Orks and Nids, but have you ever played Harlequins or Mechanicus?
I'm not saying Tau are OP, but they're such a bloody drag to play against and some armies are just unplayable against them.

DaPino wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Really? Cry me a river because the power armor saves I PAID POINTS FOR are ignored all the time by AP 2 spam. But you can't handle Tau paying points to ignore cover that YOU GET FOR FREE? What do you do on table with little cover? Pack up and quit? Because some battles do take place in relatively open areas, like Eastern European/Western Russia battles from WWII.

Armies that have poor saves usually have a lot of wounds per point, and so are superior at soaking many of the popular weapons in the game. One of the big liabilities of power armor in the game is that meqs frequently get no benefit at all from cover.

You might not have an armor save, but in most cases, at least you have a cover save. Unless of course I'm playing Tau. Tau have no shortage of spammable AP2 themselves by the way.

I "got cover for free"? So what, so did my opponent. Unless, of course, I'm playing against Tau, then only he almost exclusively gets the benefit of having cover until I remove his markerlights.

The thing is, it's not just the infantry blobs with the poor saves that get royaly F'd over by those markerlights. It's also that 2+ elite unit I've got in my army. It's also any vehicle that's not AV14.
Your armor save gets denied by AP2 spam? Well both armor and cover saves are being denied to me because of AP2 ignore cover spam.

And not every army that has a poor save has a numerical advantage. Yes there are some, like Orks and Nids, but have you ever played Harlequins or Mechanicus?
I'm not saying Tau are OP, but they're such a bloody drag to play against and some armies are just unplayable against them.

Marines are often trying to get very close, which often means no cover.

Martel732 wrote:

DaPino wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Really? Cry me a river because the power armor saves I PAID POINTS FOR are ignored all the time by AP 2 spam. But you can't handle Tau paying points to ignore cover that YOU GET FOR FREE? What do you do on table with little cover? Pack up and quit? Because some battles do take place in relatively open areas, like Eastern European/Western Russia battles from WWII.

Armies that have poor saves usually have a lot of wounds per point, and so are superior at soaking many of the popular weapons in the game. One of the big liabilities of power armor in the game is that meqs frequently get no benefit at all from cover.

You might not have an armor save, but in most cases, at least you have a cover save. Unless of course I'm playing Tau. Tau have no shortage of spammable AP2 themselves by the way.

I "got cover for free"? So what, so did my opponent. Unless, of course, I'm playing against Tau, then only he almost exclusively gets the benefit of having cover until I remove his markerlights.

The thing is, it's not just the infantry blobs with the poor saves that get royaly F'd over by those markerlights. It's also that 2+ elite unit I've got in my army. It's also any vehicle that's not AV14.
Your armor save gets denied by AP2 spam? Well both armor and cover saves are being denied to me because of AP2 ignore cover spam.

And not every army that has a poor save has a numerical advantage. Yes there are some, like Orks and Nids, but have you ever played Harlequins or Mechanicus?
I'm not saying Tau are OP, but they're such a bloody drag to play against and some armies are just unplayable against them.

Marines are often trying to get very close, which often means no cover.

I'm not sure I totally get the point you're trying the make here. The exact same thing is true for any other army that needs to get close.

My point is that marine benefit from cover far less than say, Orks. I just don't see how Tau taking away a save that you didn't even pay points for is that big of a deal.

First, often points are paid for cover. Stealth. Shrouded. Jink. Maybe not enough, but certainly some.

Second, my Marines really do lament the loss of cover saves when taking all that AP1/2 firepower from Tau. Not as easy to get cover when you need to get close, sure, but it still exists. The idea that my defense against APing my armor is Cover, but Tau have lots of low-AP ignorss-cover options is painful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd love to see a -1-per-ML return to the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also love to see all Rail weapons become Ordinance. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really feel that that's more fitting.

"Second, my Marines really do lament the loss of cover saves when taking all that AP1/2 firepower from Tau"

5+++ cover is not going to save you from that many wounds. I'm sticking with cover being largely useless for marines, because AP 1/2 is still taking you from 3+ to 5+++.

"The idea that my defense against APing my armor is Cover"

The real defense is to kill them before they kill you.

"I'd love to see a -1-per-ML return to the game."

Why? With the DA running around, I think that Tau need to stay at 2 for ignore cover.

"but Tau have lots of low-AP ignorss-cover options is painful."

Eldar make me scoop my model much faster with AP 6 weapons. Where is your cover now? Scatterlasers might as well perma ignore cover.

Bharring wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also love to see all Rail weapons become Ordinance. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really feel that that's more fitting.

Id rather see armor bane.

 Desubot wrote:

Bharring wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also love to see all Rail weapons become Ordinance. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really feel that that's more fitting.

Id rather see armor bane.

Armorbane for the little one, Str D for the big one.

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Bharring wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also love to see all Rail weapons become Ordinance. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really feel that that's more fitting.

Id rather see armor bane.

Armorbane for the little one, Str D for the big one.

Oh man makes me want to take rail rifles to go feth up some tanks. also vanquisher broadsides

What about the third one?

Armorbane would make the Rail Rifle far too powerful, methinks.

(A 5++ will often be the difference between that pie plate removing the entire unit, and having the most important few models survive it.

And does every thread need to come down to "Waaah, SL bikes beat Marines"?)

Bharring wrote:
What about the third one?

Armorbane would make the Rail Rifle far too powerful, methinks.

(A 5++ will often be the difference between that pie plate removing the entire unit, and having the most important few models survive it.

And does every thread need to come down to "Waaah, SL bikes beat Marines"?)

The average roll for a armor baneing rail rifle would be 13

You can go glance some armor clads...

It will give pathfinders something more to do than just sit there and laser pointer things.

What about making buff chips (Puretide, TL, Ignores Cover) be exclusive? Meaning that any model can only benefit from one? Wouldn't that make it more of a tradeoff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But at 3 weapons with 2 shots each, that'd work out to:
3x2x(1/2)(.6) = nearly 2 HP on Pred front armor or IK, without any ML. With ML, they one-round the Pred and take out half an IK.

Probably kill a Rhino or Chimera in one salvo on front armor.

Vs LRs:
3x2x(1/2)(.4) = 1.2HP, mostly pens. Should Pathfinders really have that kind of firepower?

"And does every thread need to come down to "Waaah, SL bikes beat Marines"?)"

As long as they are in the game. They are the standard by which most other power units are judged.

"Armorbane would make the Rail Rifle far too powerful, methinks. "

Not even remotely true. It's only got a single shot.

"A 5++ will often be the difference between that pie plate removing the entire unit, and having the most important few models survive it. "

If you say so. If it's not sufficiently decimated, they usually just shoot again.

Rapid Fire weapons get two shots within half range.

Bharring wrote:

I'd also love to see all Rail weapons become Ordinance. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really feel that that's more fitting.

I'd be okay with that. Makes the Railhead more reliable and so might get taken over other options. It is also the only real way I can see improving the Railgun. Twin-linked isn't really worth it as markerlights exist, armourbane is too strong, Lance is too powerful on a S10 weapon (pen everything on a 3+ or less? Too much) etc.

Would cut Broadsides mobility but then they never really needed to be mobile with Railguns, except for slight repositioning. I think a strength increase to 9 and Ordnance would make Railsides as attractive as Missilesides as their single shots are more likely to actually do something.

Rail Rifles in pathfinder squads, well it cuts their mobility and they lose the second shot at half range. On the other hand were pathfinder rail rifles ever intended to be an anti-tank weapon? Seems to me that they are more for softening up heavy infantry and monstrous creatures and so ordnance doesn't really give them any bonuses against those targets. It also wouldn't fit the description of the Ordnance rule so I don't think they should get it.

Bharring wrote:
Rapid Fire weapons get two shots within half range.

I was talking heavy rail rifle and Hammerhead gun.

Bharring wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But at 3 weapons with 2 shots each, that'd work out to:
3x2x(1/2)(.6) = nearly 2 HP on Pred front armor or IK, without any ML. With ML, they one-round the Pred and take out half an IK.

Probably kill a Rhino or Chimera in one salvo on front armor.

Vs LRs:
3x2x(1/2)(.4) = 1.2HP, mostly pens. Should Pathfinders really have that kind of firepower?

Its two shots at 15"
They wont benefit from there own Marker lights
an 18" Infiltrate can be outplayed way easy.
If they commit that close then you should be able to counter feth them pretty easily.