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Why are we comparing one of the worst dex (Chaos) and Tau units in a discussion about what we would want to see in the next Tau update? Lol

Comparing oblits to broadsides is like trying to hammer a nail with your forehead.

Tau by default, are/ is a poorly conceived and thought out dex unit to unit simply because they (being GW) forwent traditional lore with the dex in favor if blatantly powering up the units within the dex to absurd levels. The riptide is a prime example.

How can they sell riptides at the beginning of 6th? Well obviously the giant mechanical robot should be a MC because walkers are just inheritently terrible, so lets make it (at the time) one of the best MCs for its cost in points and effectiveness via statlines in the game. Realistically it should have been an Av13/12/11 walker by all rights with 5 HP and it should never have had access to FNP.

When you try to compare broadsides to Oblits you make yourself just seem stupid (no offense) oblits are literally 2 terminators rolled into one, with 2 wounds and the mainstay 2+/5++ they are stock 70 ppm and literally only good for termicide missions where 3-5 terminators would have been counter productive. Broadsides also have a 2+, that's basically where it ends in similarity.

Davor wrote:
I haven't done Tau yet, but I was going to when the new codex came out. I didn't see any of those Humans in the Tau empire, so I never bothered.

I really want to see a Tau Emperium. Not just Vespids and a Kroot but actual Vespids in more than one role, Kroot in more than one roll, and actual Tauhuman faction.

This is my personal choice. I know for a lot Tau players don't want this, but I would start collecting Tau if they did this.

This^.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The problem is that people genuinely believe that there is something about the model which doesn't fit with the current rules and use fluff to justify it.

Fluffwise, Terminators shrug off everything short of tank rounds. That's not the case, ruleswise.
Fluffwise, Plasma weaponry is incredibly rare. That's not the case, ruleswise.

And quite frankly? Crisis Suits are undersized right now.
Look at page 70-71 in the Tau Empire Codex. You're looking at a difference of a height of a few feet between the generic XV8 Crisis Suits and the XV8-05 Enforcer Battlesuit variant, which is pretty close in height to the XV88 Broadside.
The Broadside, in turn, is wider and bulkier.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Why are we comparing one of the worst dex (Chaos) and Tau units in a discussion about what we would want to see in the next Tau update? Lol

Comparing oblits to broadsides is like trying to hammer a nail with your forehead.

Tau by default, are/ is a poorly conceived and thought out dex unit to unit simply because they (being GW) forwent traditional lore with the dex in favor if blatantly powering up the units within the dex to absurd levels. The riptide is a prime example.

How can they sell riptides at the beginning of 6th? Well obviously the giant mechanical robot should be a MC because walkers are just inheritently terrible, so lets make it (at the time) one of the best MCs for its cost in points and effectiveness via statlines in the game. Realistically it should have been an Av13/12/11 walker by all rights with 5 HP and it should never have had access to FNP.

When you try to compare broadsides to Oblits you make yourself just seem stupid (no offense) oblits are literally 2 terminators rolled into one, with 2 wounds and the mainstay 2+/5++ they are stock 70 ppm and literally only good for termicide missions where 3-5 terminators would have been counter productive. Broadsides also have a 2+, that's basically where it ends in similarity.

You completely missed the point.
I'm not comparing to oblits on the POWER level, there is no question that HYMP broadsides are stronger than oblits.
The comparison is on a MODEL base, and the broadside is the far greater, hulking and menacing model of the two, yet the two share a statline. scratch that, the oblit has the superior statline, as he had higher WS, BS and I and only lower in S.
And that's before you enter nurgle oblits, who are basically the same size, who are even tougher than the broadsides.

Its not healthy for the GAME that the model has no indication to the capabilities of the model. players, especially new players, expect the big nasty stuff to BE big and nasty. as long as the broadside is so towering over oblits, centurions and the likes-they SHOULD be tougher, more powerful and generally a bigger threat.
I'm not saying they need to be BUFFED, but CHANGED. the increase in stats need to also come with increase in costs, making each individual broadside be more, yet matter more.

Yes, you may argue that the oblits fluffwise can tank shots from here to narnia, but then again the broadside fluffwise takes down leman russes with a single shot , and that obviously not happening.
But from a design perspective, the bigger model-should be the stronger and the more it should cost.
The fact the broadside isn't far above the oblit when you compare the models is absurd, the fact he's even cheaper is outright silly. the broadside is bigger than a dreadnought, he should be in THAT pricerange and the power level to match.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

Disagree on Terminator Armour. They have 2+ armour all over too, in bigger and more mobile suits, with more guns and with the option to get better defensive equipment.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

Spoiler:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

Disagree on Terminator Armour. They have 2+ armour all over too, in bigger and more mobile suits, with more guns and with the option to get better defensive equipment.

There are only two models in the whole codex with 2+ armor: the Broadside and the Riptide. There is also the experimental Iridium Armor. The Broadside earns its armor save by being almost twice as big as a Terminator, essentially doing the same with more... only without being able to compensate weapon recoil or to teleport. The Riptide has a 2+ armor because it is leagues above the Terminator Armor.

When it comes to the Riptide and Broadside:

Riptide:

-Increase the cost of the Ion Accelerator by 15-20 points, otherwise its perfectly fine especially when compared to other MC's such as the Grey Knight Dreadknight (same armor save and invulnerable base). Even then there is plenty nowadays, especially in the Imperial Armies that absolutely make a mockery of it even with its high durability.

Broadside:

-Increase to Toughness 5

-TL-Heavy Rail Rifle stays the same (S8 AP1) since it has access to Skyfire however make it Heavy 2 Twin Linked instead of just a single shot. Also give Broadsides Relentless and Slow and Purposeful so they can actually move somewhat (random movement is not maneuverable at all)

I really think the solution to the TL-Heavy Rail Rifle is to make it Savlo 2/1. This gives the Broadside mobility with that weapon without making the HYMP even more amazing by putting it on a platform that can move and shoot with it at full BS.

The broadside doesn't need Relentless or Slow and Purposeful as it was designed to be a more static element of the army, otherwise they would have made it jetpack infintry like every other battle suit.

The HYMP needs to be a 10 point upgrade at least, maybe 15 as it is simply more useful than the standard HRR. While that upgrade won't eliminate people using them, it will reduce the number of support units they have. Every 10 points spent on a HYMP is another markerlight not on the table.

Honestly, I would make the HRR Rapid Fire.

I would also make it so that Broadsides could take Sniper Drones as a Drone option.

HYMP needs to be part of a "loadout" upgrade which includes the Plasma Rifles rather than allowing you to upgrade the HRRs to HYMP and leave the SMS by itself.

Like many have already said, I would like to see some new/better Kroot and Vespids, as well as some Gue'vesa (after all, humans on some worlds have joined the Greater Good). Some stuff to make vehicles better would be nice too, as well as buffs to Railrifle Broadsides. Also, make the Special Characters cooler, most of them are not very good right now (looking at you Aun'shi!). I've also always wondered why Fire Warriors could not take special weapons like Space Marines, but the more fragile Pathfinders can. Maybe they should do something about this too. And last, but not least, overhaul the flyers! I don't think they are bad models, but gamewise they suck right now (possibly worse than 6th edition DA flyers).

Fluffwise, it's because the Pathfinders aren't going to be right in the thick of fighting so they can be given experimental equipment without concern that they might be killed or unable to fulfill their role during a battle.

Fluffwise as well, it's because Fire Warriors aren't Space Marines. Space Marines expect to be operating by themselves with the potentiality of no support for extended periods of time.
Fire Warriors are one part of an intricate battleplan and they go into combat secure in the knowledge that their commanders have devoted them the appropriate resources for the battle ahead.

I don't know

I'm still really satisfied with the current book.

I guess, maybe, don't create any super auto-takes

Agreed,
The one or two improvements I have in mind feel like 'having your cake and eating it too,' double so when comparing to other worse off Codex's

 Kanluwen wrote:
Fluffwise, it's because the Pathfinders aren't going to be right in the thick of fighting so they can be given experimental equipment without concern that they might be killed or unable to fulfill their role during a battle.

Fluffwise as well, it's because Fire Warriors aren't Space Marines. Space Marines expect to be operating by themselves with the potentiality of no support for extended periods of time.
Fire Warriors are one part of an intricate battleplan and they go into combat secure in the knowledge that their commanders have devoted them the appropriate resources for the battle ahead.

Fluffwise, pathfinders are more in the thick of things than fire warriors.

Fluffwise as well, guardsmen are not space marines either, and get special weapons all around despite being officially disposable.

Either a small point reduction on Stealth Suits or the invisibility rule that makes enemies Ws Bs 1 against them.
Tank squadrons with option for target lock upgrade on vehicles.
Broadsides to have either T5 or 3 wounds or both

As a joke.
Grav weapons to be worse against suits and vehicles since ours use anti grav technology to move and thrust.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

Spoiler:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

Disagree on Terminator Armour. They have 2+ armour all over too, in bigger and more mobile suits, with more guns and with the option to get better defensive equipment.

There are only two models in the whole codex with 2+ armor: the Broadside and the Riptide. There is also the experimental Iridium Armor. The Broadside earns its armor save by being almost twice as big as a Terminator, essentially doing the same with more... only without being able to compensate weapon recoil or to teleport. The Riptide has a 2+ armor because it is leagues above the Terminator Armor.

Incorrect, battlesuit size comes from the size and power of the weapons they carry. More than technological inferiority its biological. Ordinary tau are weaker than humans and while they could develop the muscle fiber bundle technology used to amplify a marines strength in power armor of any kind it wouldn't be enough on the frail tau physique. So instead they gain the strength mechanically. Which is why the size is needed. The dense nanocrystal armor they wear is also infinitely more lightweight than any power armor.

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
I don't know

I'm still really satisfied with the current book.

I guess, maybe, don't create any super auto-takes

I agree with this

 Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

Spoiler:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

Disagree on Terminator Armour. They have 2+ armour all over too, in bigger and more mobile suits, with more guns and with the option to get better defensive equipment.

There are only two models in the whole codex with 2+ armor: the Broadside and the Riptide. There is also the experimental Iridium Armor. The Broadside earns its armor save by being almost twice as big as a Terminator, essentially doing the same with more... only without being able to compensate weapon recoil or to teleport. The Riptide has a 2+ armor because it is leagues above the Terminator Armor.

Incorrect, battlesuit size comes from the size and power of the weapons they carry. More than technological inferiority its biological. Ordinary tau are weaker than humans and while they could develop the muscle fiber bundle technology used to amplify a marines strength in power armor of any kind it wouldn't be enough on the frail tau physique. So instead they gain the strength mechanically. Which is why the size is needed. The dense nanocrystal armor they wear is also infinitely more lightweight than any power armor.

No, the battlesuit size comes from technological inferiority. Tau metallurgy isn't advanced enough for the high-end stuff like adamantium, so they have to use lots of weaker materials to achieve the same level of protection. Maybe the nanocrystal is lighter than the adamantium, but the Tau has to apply multiple layers of nanocrystal where a single layer of adamantium would be enough. The Tau simply can't into micro-scaling, that's why the size - it has little to do with actual efficiency: with the Tau, bigger is not alwasy better when compared to the stuff of he other races.

Also, there's no fluff saying Tau are "weaker" than humans, as far as I know they're pretty comparable. If anything that's an assumption made by people who just don't know the fluff to try and explain their deficiency in close combat, or people just being donkey-caves.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Bumping the price up WOULD mean its not useful against infantry blobs though, due to the fact you cant shoot as many shots per point any more.
Pulse weapons would need to be increased to get rip of hordes.

Why do tau need to have S6 on their heavy battlesuits, when basic infantry pack S5? the missile pods will not be relegated as anti-infantry, they would be completely dropped. the only reason pods are good to begin with, is that they are at least decent against nearly anything-if they stop being so (and S6 means they did as AV12 is barely scratched, AV13 is untouchable and MCs with T7 or Sv2 are also beyond reasonable wounding rates, even T5 would get a large bump in survival rates, and T5 isn't special at all.)

The fact the price per model goes up, would mean, by default, that the "point and click removal" of light vehicles and the damage to MCs would also be decrease, because you simply would not afford as many guns on the field.

The only problem with the pods is how easy it is to spam them, not the power of the individual pod. once you make the base suit more expensive, the number of guns available at a point value drop. the guns will be harder to take down, but they won't kill stuff as quickly.


As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.
And every bit of durability you sink into it, means a higher pricetag is acceptable-making the drop in firepower per point even bigger, and further solving the S7 spam issue by making it simply not spammable.

Its simple design really, I don't understand why you fail to see it.

I disagree entirely. Bumping up the price would not make other weapons a more viable pick. HYMP would still be THE weapon that does everything and people will take it just because it's TAC.
Tyranids almost rely solely on a single model that has 12 Str6 shots and a haywire flamer to deal with just about everything and it works because pentyrant is a succesfull list. I'll give credit where credit is due and it's not solely because of the weapon and the fact that it's a FMC helps a metric ton but still it's a proof of concept that Str 6 guns are viable to deal with anything short of vehicles.

The difference between their heavy weaponry and basic infantry weaponry is: better AP, greater range, higher strength and a higher number of shots.
If you increase the cost of the base suit, you're still not going to fix the problem that every suit is going to want a missile pod because it is just the better weapon out of those available.

I can totaly justify that a broadside has the durability of a Centurion or Obliterator. Bigger does not mean sturdier by any stretch of the imagination. If I make two sets of armor, one out of paper and the other out of steel, would the paper one provide better protection if I made it two times as thick as the steel one? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no it wouldn't.
And the fact of the matter is that things like Nurgle obliterators or Centurions are at their core Space marines, which have a godly amount of resistance compared to what is piloting the Broadside. Once you get through that armor plating, the guy inside the broadside is going to die VERY quickly. Nurgle obliterators can get half their body blown of and still live through it, because Nurgle. Centurions are essentially tanks (armor) built around what is already considered a walking tank (the space marine inside).
The broadside is most comparable to a Centurion. It's a guy in a vehicle-like suit of armor. Both give the pilot more resilience with the difference being that a Centurion is piloted by a lifeform that is magnitudes stronger and tougher than what's piloting a Broadside.

1 toughness is already considered a pretty big deal, it's the difference between a regular human and a space marine, suddenly giving a weak humanoid such as Tau more resilience and toughness than a space marine is crazy. And don't get me fething started on the Riptide because that thing is by ALL means imaginable a walker but that wouldn't have sold enough kits.

Going by your logic a Rhino should be nigh indestructable because it is bigger and thus sturdier than a Broadside (which in your opinion should be T5 3W), yet a Rhino is more fragile than a broadside.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Fluffwise, it's because the Pathfinders aren't going to be right in the thick of fighting so they can be given experimental equipment without concern that they might be killed or unable to fulfill their role during a battle.

Fluffwise as well, it's because Fire Warriors aren't Space Marines. Space Marines expect to be operating by themselves with the potentiality of no support for extended periods of time.
Fire Warriors are one part of an intricate battleplan and they go into combat secure in the knowledge that their commanders have devoted them the appropriate resources for the battle ahead.

Fluffwise, pathfinders are more in the thick of things than fire warriors.

Operating from concealed positions at the forefront of the fighting, with a Devilfish APC standing by for a fast exfiltration != "in the thick of things".
Being at the tip of the spear for operations is not the same as being at the tip of the spear for actual combat operations.

Fluffwise as well, guardsmen are not space marines either, and get special weapons all around despite being officially disposable.

And fluffwise, you would understand that the special weapons given to Guardsmen are churned out of factories in obscene numbers with no thoughts or care given to the craftsmanship and potential harmful effects the weapons could have on the Guardsmen assigned them.

That's not how the Tau do things.

AtoMaki wrote:

 Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

Spoiler:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As for why T5 3W, because you seriously can't justify a broadside model to have only the durability of a centurion/nurgle oblit. its far bigger and sturdier than both, and should be reflected in the model.

It is reflected in its 2+ armour save.

But Oblits already has that and 2 W, plus 5++, so they are actually even stronger than a Broadside defensively.

Well, the Obliterators are wearing a small (and better) Broadside armor, so this sounds alright.

But they're about the size of a Terminator, who has T 4 and one Wound. The problem isn't with Oblits, the problem is that Broadsides doesn't fit with with their current rules - Oblits were only mentioned because they have the same stats, but are clearly in different leagues.

The Obliterator and the Broadside are the same league. They are both heavy infantry tasked with fire support. The Broadside is bigger because fluff-wise, the Tau can't produce something like the Fleshmetal+Obliterator Virus combo, or even something like the simple Terminator Armor - the Broadside is the best they can do.

Disagree on Terminator Armour. They have 2+ armour all over too, in bigger and more mobile suits, with more guns and with the option to get better defensive equipment.

There are only two models in the whole codex with 2+ armor: the Broadside and the Riptide. There is also the experimental Iridium Armor. The Broadside earns its armor save by being almost twice as big as a Terminator, essentially doing the same with more... only without being able to compensate weapon recoil or to teleport. The Riptide has a 2+ armor because it is leagues above the Terminator Armor.

Incorrect, battlesuit size comes from the size and power of the weapons they carry. More than technological inferiority its biological. Ordinary tau are weaker than humans and while they could develop the muscle fiber bundle technology used to amplify a marines strength in power armor of any kind it wouldn't be enough on the frail tau physique. So instead they gain the strength mechanically. Which is why the size is needed. The dense nanocrystal armor they wear is also infinitely more lightweight than any power armor.

No, the battlesuit size comes from technological inferiority. Tau metallurgy isn't advanced enough for the high-end stuff like adamantium, so they have to use lots of weaker materials to achieve the same level of protection. Maybe the nanocrystal is lighter than the adamantium, but the Tau has to apply multiple layers of nanocrystal where a single layer of adamantium would be enough. The Tau simply can't into micro-scaling, that's why the size - it has little to do with actual efficiency: with the Tau, bigger is not alwasy better when compared to the stuff of he other races.

Not really. They have a substance comparable to adamanium, it's just not reasonable to outfit every broadside with it (keep in mind there are millions, if not hundreds of millions of broadsides, and probably less that 500,000 termies). It's also what they use in riptides, and is one of the slowing points for riptides (it's the only real thing that stops them from producing them at a much greater number). IT would be more correct to say, they do not have the recorces for it. Keep in mind, adimantite is rare in the imperium, and the imperium has pretty much limitless production possibility.

What they do have is Fio'tak (I think that's what it's called) that is comparable to cearmitite, but much lighter. That is the substance they use for more armour plating.

Sidstyler wrote:Also, there's no fluff saying Tau are "weaker" than humans, as far as I know they're pretty comparable. If anything that's an assumption made by people who just don't know the fluff to try and explain their deficiency in close combat, or people just being donkey-caves.

Yup. I think they are supposed to be slightly shorter (although I'm not sure exactly where that comes from), but nothing I knoe of says they are weaker, other than possibly the Imperial Guardsman's Uplifting Primer: Damocles Gulf Edition.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Fluffwise, it's because the Pathfinders aren't going to be right in the thick of fighting so they can be given experimental equipment without concern that they might be killed or unable to fulfill their role during a battle.

Fluffwise as well, it's because Fire Warriors aren't Space Marines. Space Marines expect to be operating by themselves with the potentiality of no support for extended periods of time.
Fire Warriors are one part of an intricate battleplan and they go into combat secure in the knowledge that their commanders have devoted them the appropriate resources for the battle ahead.

Fluffwise, pathfinders are more in the thick of things than fire warriors.

Operating from concealed positions at the forefront of the fighting, with a Devilfish APC standing by for a fast exfiltration != "in the thick of things".
Being at the tip of the spear for operations is not the same as being at the tip of the spear for actual combat operations.

Fluffwise as well, guardsmen are not space marines either, and get special weapons all around despite being officially disposable.

And fluffwise, you would understand that the special weapons given to Guardsmen are churned out of factories in obscene numbers with no thoughts or care given to the craftsmanship and potential harmful effects the weapons could have on the Guardsmen assigned them.

That's not how the Tau do things.

As far as I know, Plasmaguns, power weapons and so forth isn't really produced that much - It's rare heirlooms, given to skilled users.

Well, they are produced, just not at the scale you see on tabletop. And the ones the guard get tend to be poor quality with a tendency to explode.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:
No, the battlesuit size comes from technological inferiority. Tau metallurgy isn't advanced enough for the high-end stuff like adamantium, so they have to use lots of weaker materials to achieve the same level of protection. Maybe the nanocrystal is lighter than the adamantium, but the Tau has to apply multiple layers of nanocrystal where a single layer of adamantium would be enough. The Tau simply can't into micro-scaling, that's why the size - it has little to do with actual efficiency: with the Tau, bigger is not alwasy better when compared to the stuff of he other races.

Not really. They have a substance comparable to adamanium, it's just not reasonable to outfit every broadside with it (keep in mind there are millions, if not hundreds of millions of broadsides, and probably less that 500,000 termies). It's also what they use in riptides, and is one of the slowing points for riptides (it's the only real thing that stops them from producing them at a much greater number). IT would be more correct to say, they do not have the recorces for it. Keep in mind, adimantite is rare in the imperium, and the imperium has pretty much limitless production possibility.

What they do have is Fio'tak (I think that's what it's called) that is comparable to cearmitite, but much lighter. That is the substance they use for more armour plating.

In fact, even the fluff for the Broadsides mention that the reason why the Broadside is so big is "moar armor":

Tau Codex wrote:In prototype production, it was quickly noticed that the new battlesuit could not avoid incoming fire, so further protective armour was added.

Or from the wiki, regarding the Fio'tak:

Battlesuit armour employing Fio'tak is shaped to deflect solid shot, and also has a liquid metal coating that reflects medium-grade laser fire. In some cases, such as that of the XV88 Broadside and XV104 Riptide Battlesuits, additional nano-layers of the material are added to upgrade the armour's thickness so that the protection it offers is even comparable to that of Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

It is really just a f*ckton of armor, IG/Ork-style.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:
No, the battlesuit size comes from technological inferiority. Tau metallurgy isn't advanced enough for the high-end stuff like adamantium, so they have to use lots of weaker materials to achieve the same level of protection. Maybe the nanocrystal is lighter than the adamantium, but the Tau has to apply multiple layers of nanocrystal where a single layer of adamantium would be enough. The Tau simply can't into micro-scaling, that's why the size - it has little to do with actual efficiency: with the Tau, bigger is not alwasy better when compared to the stuff of he other races.

Not really. They have a substance comparable to adamanium, it's just not reasonable to outfit every broadside with it (keep in mind there are millions, if not hundreds of millions of broadsides, and probably less that 500,000 termies). It's also what they use in riptides, and is one of the slowing points for riptides (it's the only real thing that stops them from producing them at a much greater number). IT would be more correct to say, they do not have the recorces for it. Keep in mind, adimantite is rare in the imperium, and the imperium has pretty much limitless production possibility.

What they do have is Fio'tak (I think that's what it's called) that is comparable to cearmitite, but much lighter. That is the substance they use for more armour plating.

In fact, even the fluff for the Broadsides mention that the reason why the Broadside is so big is "moar armor":

Tau Codex wrote:In prototype production, it was quickly noticed that the new battlesuit could not avoid incoming fire, so further protective armour was added.

Or from the wiki, regarding the Fio'tak:

Battlesuit armour employing Fio'tak is shaped to deflect solid shot, and also has a liquid metal coating that reflects medium-grade laser fire. In some cases, such as that of the XV88 Broadside and XV104 Riptide Battlesuits, additional nano-layers of the material are added to upgrade the armour's thickness so that the protection it offers is even comparable to that of Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

It is really just a f*ckton of armor, IG/Ork-style.

Which is exactly what I just said. I was disagreeing that they didn't have something comparable to adamatite. I was saying that the reason it's not used on boradsides is that it would not be fesable to produce that much..

Bottom line is that Tau, since they have no CC options, should have better shooting than Eldar and they just don't. GW has really put the Tau in a rough spot because a better shooting list than Eldar at this point really makes the game moot.

How are Eldar in the psychic phase now?
Because I think we could make a long list of things Eldar does better than Tau.