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2015/07/19 00:00:49
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Special Rules: -Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) -Objective Secured -Fearless -Furious Charge -Favored of Horus
Favored of Horus : This unit may be chosen as a Command Squad for any Terminator-armored Praetor or The Primarch Horus. This unit ignores the clause in Merciless Fighters stating that “ that has already fought”. (In essence, as long as this unit outnumbers the enemy it gains an additional Attack)
All Options Remain the Same
If a Command Squad, one model must be equipped with a Legion Banner for +15 points
Emperor's Children Emperor's Children have the big issue of their units being completely sucky, so I thought I'd change that. Also, I've changed and amended Sonic Shriekers to have them make more sense. Kakaphoni I'm still working on.
Spoiler:
Sonic Shriekers- A model, or a unit with at least one model with a unit equipped with a Sonic Shrieker gets +1 Initiative during the first turn of an assault. If an entire unit is equipped with a Sonic Shrieker, enemies within 6” of the unit may not declare Overwatch during the Assault Phase.
Special Rules -Legiones Astartes (Emperor’s Children) -The War of Art
The War of Art: Due to the extreme focus on perfection, models with this special rule equipped with weapons with the Rending special rule instead instantly wound (with the wound being AP2) on a 5+. They also count as having a 6+ invulnerable save for the duration of the Assault Phase.
Options: All other options remain the same May take Sonic Shriekers - 4 points/model May take Jump Packs - 40 points
Unmatched Martial Skill: During an assault, for every point of WS this model has above the enemies’, it gets +1 to its invulnerable save ( to a max of 3+). During an assault, for every point of Initiative this model has above its enemies’, it gets +1 Attack. [In all cases, take the average enemy WS and I]
Living Icon: This unit, and all friendly units within 6” of this unit, get +1 to their Combat Resolution scores. Furthermore, this unit may always use its Phoenix Power Spears as though they had charged.
Options All options remain the same.
World Eaters
World Eaters are so close to being actually decent in the Horus Heresy, but their base Legion rules are weak and their units are pretty bad. Here's some fixes to that.
Spoiler:
World Eaters -
Bloodlust- Models with this special rule reroll 1’s to wound against enemies in Assault or that have taken casualties this turn. (Everything else stays the same, getting Rage is extremely rare and this provides some sort of thought about Blood Madness versus Bloodlust)
Chainaxes: Any model with the Legiones Astartes (World Eaters) special rule with a chainsword or combat blade may exchange it for a Chainaxe for free. Any model with access to a chainsword or combat blade may instead take a chainaxe for 1 point per model.
Caedare Weapons Meteor Hammer- Stays the same Excoriator Chainaxe: Str+1 AP2 Specialist Weapon, Two-Handed, Shred, Unwieldy Twin Falax Blades: Stays the same Barb-Hook Lash: Str: As User, AP5. Type: Melee, Specialist Weapon, Fleshbane, rolls of 5+ to wound are AP3
Any Independent Character or Character may take a Caedare Weapon for 10 points.
Berserker Assault: All models gain Scout (but may not Outflank)
Unit Composition -4 Rampager Chosen -1 Rampager Champion
Unit Type Infantry (Character)
Wargear -Power Armour -Bolt Pistol -Chainaxe -Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules -Legiones Astartes (World Eaters) -Feels No Pain (6+) -Berserk Discipline -Scout
Berserk Discipline: During the Assault Phase, this unit’s Feels No Pain save is increased to a 5+ and it is Fearless.
Options: May take up to 15 additional Rampagers: 15 points per model
Any model may exchange their chainaxe for one of the following: Heavy Chainsword: +2 points per model A Caedare Weapon: +5 points per model
Any model may exchange their bolt pistol for a Combat Shield: +2 points per model
One in five models may exchange their Chainaxe for a Power Weapon: 10 pts/model
Entire Squad may be equipped with jump packs - 40 points
All other options remain the same
And last but not least...Orkz!!!
Orkz Orks in the 30k era were bigger...stronger...meaner...an overall horror. I think that 4 WS4 Strength 4 charging attacks from 20 Orks ought to give them back their fearsome reputation!
Unit Type Infantry (Ork Boys) Infantry (Character) (Nob only)
Special Rules Ork Clanz Furious Charge ‘Ere We Go! Mob Rule Feels No Pain (6+)
Wargear -Slugga -Choppa -Stikkbombz
Unit Options -May add up to 40 additional Ork Boys at 4 points/model -May upgrade one Boy to a Nob for 15 points
All other options remain the same
Ork Clanz: Basically Legiones Astartes rules for Orks! These are still in development, but I was thinking of something like where the Goffs could reroll 1’s to run and charge, but have to have more infantry than any other type of model. Meanwhile the Speed Freeks could take Bikes as troops but had to give all models the RPJ upgrade
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2015/07/21 21:09:35
2015/07/19 04:32:22
Subject: Re:Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
natpri771 wrote:Justaerin & Abaddon definitely need some improvement. Just some alternate ideas:
Abaddon -Gains Eternal Warrior -May exchange power sword for paragon blade- 10pts
Justaerin Either: -Decrease to 150pts
Or: -Gain 2 Wounds -Replace Terminator armour with "Justaerin Warplate" (A La Abaddon)
Y'know, you make a good point about the Justaerin. I'd personally prefer they gain 2 wounds and the Justaerin Warplate, and keep them at about 225-ish. Also very good call on Abaddon having access to a Paragon Blade!
Captyn_Bob wrote:A good start here.
Thank you for your comment! I hope this thread will be useful to you.
Here's some more stuff that I've been feeling need to be changed to mix things up a bit.
First off! Jump Packs in the Horus Heresy are altogether too expensive. Right right now, wherever you see the cost for Jump Packs, amend it to 4 pts/model for units and to 10 points for Characters.
Here's some fixes/changes for some of the actual Legion units.
APOTHECARY This model may take a Jump Pack - 10 points
ASSAULT SQUADS Easily the worst troops choice, this should put them on equal footing with Breachers and Tactical Marines.
Unit Composition -9 Assault Marines -1 Assault Sergeant
Unit Type Infantry [Assault Marines only] Infantry (Character) [Assault Sergeant only]
Wargear -Power Armour -Bolt Pistol -Chainsword or Combat Blade -Frag and Krak Grenades -Jump Pack
Special Rules -Legiones Astartes -Strength of the Legion
Strength of the Legion: During the beginning of the turn, this unit may take a LD test. If it passes, this unit may use its Jump Packs in both the Movement and Assault Phases. This ability may not be used if the unit is pinned or falling back. Furthermore, when this unit deep strikes it will only scatter 2D3”.
Options: May take up to 10 Additional Assault Marines: 14 points per model May take Combat Shields: 2 points per model Unit may take an additional Bolt Pistol: 1 point per model
All other options remain the same
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/19 18:00:48
2015/07/19 20:05:19
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
natpri771 wrote:Justaerin & Abaddon definitely need some improvement. Just some alternate ideas:
Abaddon -Gains Eternal Warrior
-May exchange power sword for paragon blade- 10pts
Justaerin Either:
-Decrease to 150pts
Or:
-Gain 2 Wounds
-Replace Terminator armour with "Justaerin Warplate" (A La Abaddon)
Y'know, you make a good point about the Justaerin. I'd personally prefer they gain 2 wounds and the Justaerin Warplate, and keep them at about 225-ish. Also very good call on Abaddon having access to a Paragon Blade!
Thanks! I kind of based it on the fact that the way Justaerin play don't fit the SoH playstyle too. The SoH are all about fast attack and schock assaults, but their signature unit is a slow and purposeful one. I think it makes them not only worth their points, but also better fitting to the SoH playstyle if they can run, overwatch & sweep advance.
2015/07/20 15:02:55
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Haha, how could I forget? They're next on the list, and Legion Reconnaissance will be the last Troops Choice I'll fix.
Breacher Squads are in an interesting conundrum: in the normal game, they’re overpriced. In Zone Mortalis, they’re probably the best Astartes troop choice because Str4+ weapons gain rending which makes it very easy to take out enemy forces! For this reason, I’ve removed the Hardened Armor special rule for them, made it an upgrade, and reduced the base point cost.
I also gave them a Breacher Formation, which allows them to reroll failed saves of 1 if they’re within BtB contact. This helps envision them in a sort of Testudo formation against enemies and makes them great objective takers. Finally I gave them Shield of the Legion (this follows the special rules of Fury of the Legion and Strength of the Legion of the Tactical and Assault squads, respectively) which makes them pass a LD test and if they pass they get +1 to their invulnerable save that turn, but only if they're in Breacher formation, aka BtB.
Special Rules -Legiones Astartes -Breacher Formation -Shield of the Legion
Breacher Formation: As long as this model is within base to base contact of at least one other model in this unit, it rerolls failed armor and invulnerable saving throws of 1. Shield of the Legion: At the beginning of each of your turns, as long as all models in this unit are in Breacher Formation and is not falling back or pinned, it may take a LD test. If it passes, increase its invulnerable save by 1.
Options: This unit may take up to 10 additional Breacher Marines: 10 pts/model This unit may take the Hardened Armor upgrade: 30 pts
All other options the same, Hardened Armor upgrade gives them the Hardened Armor special rule.
natpri771 wrote: Thanks! I kind of based it on the fact that the way Justaerin play don't fit the SoH playstyle too. The SoH are all about fast attack and schock assaults, but their signature unit is a slow and purposeful one. I think it makes them not only worth their points, but also better fitting to the SoH playstyle if they can run, overwatch & sweep advance.
You're right, it makes a lot more sense to me too.
Wargear Justaerin Warplates
Power Weapons
Combi-Bolters
Special Rules Legiones Astartes (Sons Of Horus)
Favoured Sons Of Horus
Chosen Warriors
Stubborn
Furious Charge
Implacable Advance
Unit May -Take Banestrike Ammo: 3pts Per Model
-Take Up To 7 More Justaerin: 45pts Each
-Take An Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw As A Dedicated Transport: 100pts
-Take A Land Raider Proteus As A Dedicated Transport: 200pts
-Take A Land Raider Phobos As A Dedicated Transport: 250pts
-Take A Spartan Assault Tank As A Dedicated Transport: 295pts
Any Model May Exchange Power Weapon For -Lightning Claw: 5pts
-Power Fist: 5pts
-Chain Fist: 10pts
Any Model May Exchange Combi-Bolter For -Combi-Weapon: 5pts
Any Model May Exchange Both Power Weapon & Combi-Bolter For -Pair Of Lightning Claws: 15pts
Up To 2 Models May Exchange Combi-Bolters For -Heavy Flamer: 10pts
-Reaper Autocannon: 15pts
-Multi-Melta: 25pts
(205pts)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/25 03:02:00
2015/07/21 15:12:02
Subject: Re:Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Not too bad, I'm sure we will end up meeting somewhere in the middle here. I'd prefer to keep the +1 BS for Justaerin to foreshadow Abaddon's Chosen having +1 WS and +1 BS over normal terminators, plus it differentiates them a bit from the rest of their Terminator brethren.
Anyway, onto the next troop choice that really needs some fixes, because i'm pretty sure everyone just forgets about them - Legion Reconnaissance Squads!
LEGION RECONNAISSANCE SQUAD
So yeah, nobody takes these guys. And why not? Well, how about a basic squad of 5 is just 25 points less than a Tactical squad and they have the same gear, Recon squads just have a few extra special rules. What I did was make them a bit more realistic at 100 points starting for 5 guys, and reduced the price of sniper rifles. I also gave them Eyes of the Legion, which is essentially a mini Djinn-Sight. Pretty neat, and I'd totally play these guys.
Special Rules
-Legiones Astartes
-Scout
-Acute Senses
-Support Squad
-Eyes of the Legion
Eyes of the Legion: Infiltrators may not set up within 18” of this unit, even if they are out of line of sight. At the beginning of each of your turns, you may have this unit take a LD test as long as it is not falling back or pinned. If it passes, a single enemy unit within 18" suffers a -1 modifier to their cover saves for the duration of the turn.
Options
May take up to 5 additional Marines - 12 points per model
Any model may exchange its bolter for a Sniper Rifle - 3 points per model
Any model may exchange its bolter for a Chainsword/Combat Blade and Infra-Visor - Free
The unit may take Cameleoline- 30 points
The Squad’s Sergeant may take an Augury Scanner - 5 points
All other options remain the same
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/21 15:13:26
2015/07/21 19:37:08
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
For me the Apothecary jump pack upgrade is too low all characters pay 20pts and I believe they should to.
Dropping Slow and Purposeful from Justaerin as well as letting them attack at I would go a long way to fixing them. They don't need 2 wounds but I think they should considering the points. Just those primary changed make them worthwhile. You can't really give them Deep Strike as it starts to make The Black Reaving useless.
I always thought Breachers should get the Shield Wall special rule, makes them a little harder to kill but I like what you've done too
Just noticed your Phoenix Guard, no Terminator should have hit and run
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/21 19:38:23
2015/07/21 19:54:16
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
PastelAvenger wrote: For me the Apothecary jump pack upgrade is too low all characters pay 20pts and I believe they should to.
In my games of 30k I've played, I've felt that Jump Packs were too expensive, especially considering you can get a Bike (thus +1 Toughness, faster speed, permanent HoW) for only 5 points more. For that reason, I reduced the cost of all Jump Packs by a significant amount. Apothecaries getting Jump Packs is part of that initiative. Point costs can always be changed of course, perhaps 15?
Dropping Slow and Purposeful from Justaerin as well as letting them attack at I would go a long way to fixing them. They don't need 2 wounds but I think they should considering the points. Just those primary changed make them worthwhile. You can't really give them Deep Strike as it starts to make The Black Reaving useless.
Fair point with the Black Reaving ROW, I will remove that rule from them. I felt that 2 Wounds was appropriate considering most of the other elite Legion Terminators have 2 wounds, and Justaerin are especially powerful.
I always thought Breachers should get the Shield Wall special rule, makes them a little harder to kill but I like what you've done too
Thanks!
Just noticed your Phoenix Guard, no Terminator should have hit and run
While it's really not the best name for the rule, I wanted something that would allow Phoenix Guard to take advantage of their Phoenix Power Lances in more than one phase, especially if they get stuck somewhere. I felt that it made sense considering they were paragons of the Emperor's Children, which were known for their lithe and "beautiful" fighting styles. White Scars also have Hit and Run Terminators iirc, so it's not entirely unprecedented. It is a rule I'm definitely for changing if possible to something better
2015/07/21 20:34:09
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Okay, two more units. First of all the Kakophoni which have been reworked to something actually useable, and then changes to Centurion Shabran Darr of the World Eaters.
KAKAPHONI The Orchestrator in this unit now allows this unit to, at the beginning of each of their shooting phases, choose one of the following: Dial It To 11, Drop The Bass, and Feel The Noize!
It's a pretty powerful unit now, with the ability to fire pseudo-autocannons, act like Dark Reapers, or just shred infantry. I increased the price slightly account for this, but I feel they're playable now.
The Cacophony: Range 36” Str6 AP4 Type: Salvo 1/2, Gets Hot!, Pinning, Bio-Psychic Shock
Special Rules -Legiones Astartes (Emperor’s Children) -Stubborn -Conductor (Orchestrator Only)
Conductor: At the beginning of each of your shooting phases, the Orchestrator may declare one of the following abilities for all models that have The Cacophony in their war gear.
Dial It To 11: Shooting Attacks from this unit are resolved at Str5 AP3 and have the Haywire special rule in addition to any other rules Drop The Bass: Shots from The Cacophony are resolved at Str7 and have the Strikedown special rule. Any unit receiving hits from any weapons in this unit moves as if in Difficult Terrain next turn Feel The Noize: Shots from The Cacophony in this unit have the Shred special rule
Options May take up to 7 additional Chora: 20 points per model
All other options remain the same
Next is CENTURION SHABRAN DARR Also a slight Change to all Legion Champions, some of which you may notice: They become WS6, get +1 Attack, and may take a Paragon Blade. Cost stays the same.
PastelAvenger wrote: The Kakophoni have too many rules and to be honest your names for them don't fit in with 30k.
Really they need to be Infantry killers, you hit it right on the head when you said you wanted them to be like Dark Reapers.
I would give them 2 firing modes
Heavy 2 S4 Ap3
Heavy 2 S7 Ap4
Both have Bio Shock, Pinning and Gets Hot
This way they can wreck light transports and kill Marines.
Just a quick thought
I just wanted to have some glam/metal quotes in there, but I suppose you're right that it's more fitting for Noise Marines.
And as always, PastelAvenger swoops in with the better suggestion. Thank you for helping make these better!
Only a matter of time until I get my job at Forge World Rules division eh? You're coming up with great ideas I would put yourself down about it. Are you testing these rules? I would be interested for a gaming group to give feedback.
2015/07/23 04:58:14
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Is it confirmed that 30k Orks were more powerful and numerous?
I'd also heard that they were weak, got slaughtered by the legions, but the survivors grew stronger against such powerful enemies. After the legions folded, these stronger Orks infested the galaxy and thats why they're such a problem.
2015/07/23 05:51:34
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Dakkamite wrote: Is it confirmed that 30k Orks were more powerful and numerous?
I'd also heard that they were weak, got slaughtered by the legions, but the survivors grew stronger against such powerful enemies. After the legions folded, these stronger Orks infested the galaxy and thats why they're such a problem.
I'd say for the most part the Orks that were encountered by the Great Crusade were arguably more threatening and powerful in their domains compared to ones that are being dealt with now in 40K. The Ork Empires of Ullanor and Gorro were both significant in their size and in the case of Gorro technological abilities. The fact that the Emperor was actually threatened at one point by a really supped up Ork in Gorro implies this given that we have yet to see someone of that calibre in 40K (The Beast being the closest but unfortunately its just a footnote and not expanded upon so there's little point of reference).
2015/07/23 06:37:29
Subject: Re:Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
The Ork forces are certainly more threatening - 100,000 Space Marines are sent to deal with the Ullanor ones - but only the Gorro Orks are described as being particularly large. Hard to tell just going off of the wiki pages though.
I think it would be easier to adapt the current Ork codex for 30k and keep the usual Ork stat-line. I mean I would love me some S4 Orks but leaving them as is is more in line with GW's "balance" which while tedious at best, is more likely to get approval from any given opponent. And making them more numerous certainly fits in with the "codex: mooks" theme they've got going on there
Edit: Looked a bit more at the suggestions in OP. 4ppm, +1 Strength and FNP (6+) for Boyz? I don't know very much about 30k but those legion armies must be disgustingly stronk if that would be considered fair to use against them!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/23 06:41:50
2015/07/23 10:27:16
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Dakkamite wrote: Is it confirmed that 30k Orks were more powerful and numerous?
Pretty much, yes. No Necrons, Tyranids, etc. No real human resistance, just plenty of scattered and vulnerable human worlds, meant that the Orks could just battle each other and grow.
The Warlords faced by the Legions made Ghaz look like a grot.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakkamite wrote: Edit: Looked a bit more at the suggestions in OP. 4ppm, +1 Strength and FNP (6+) for Boyz? I don't know very much about 30k but those legion armies must be disgustingly stronk if that would be considered fair to use against them!
That does sound odd. In my experience, Legion lists are actually weaker in low points games, and only start to come into their own once you get to 2000-3000+
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/23 10:28:06
PastelAvenger wrote:
Only a matter of time until I get my job at Forge World Rules division eh? You're coming up with great ideas I would put yourself down about it. Are you testing these rules? I would be interested for a gaming group to give feedback.
Not putting myself down per se - just giving you credit for helping make some of these fixes/additions more palatable. And alas, I get in a game of 30k here and there but my opponents are few and far inbetween. This is probably the only time I'd ever consider something like Vassal.
Also, thank you for your comments everyone. Glad everyone is taking an interest.
Dakkamite wrote:
I think it would be easier to adapt the current Ork codex for 30k and keep the usual Ork stat-line. I mean I would love me some S4 Orks but leaving them as is is more in line with GW's "balance" which while tedious at best, is more likely to get approval from any given opponent. And making them more numerous certainly fits in with the "codex: mooks" theme they've got going on there
It's certainly a fair point, although perhaps this 30k Ork codex could be an Ullanor/Gorro sort of supplement.
Edit: Looked a bit more at the suggestions in OP. 4ppm, +1 Strength and FNP (6+) for Boyz? I don't know very much about 30k but those legion armies must be disgustingly stronk if that would be considered fair to use against them!
I must make a clarification here - ADDITIONAL Ork boyz are 4 points per model. If you look at the base list, you have to take 20 Ork boys for 140 points, which makes the base Ork boy (before any upgrades) 7 points per model, which is actually more! Then, if you take 10 additional Boyz you have 30 for 180 points, which is the same cost you get for them in the current Ork codex. Only when you start adding more boyz does the cost significantly go down. The Horus Heresy lists all follow this same kind of "tax" pattern to encourage you to take larger units.
Even if you took the 30 extra Ork boyz for 120 points, the total cost ends up being 280 points for 50 unupgraded boys, which ends up being about 5.6 points per model which is certainly a far cry from 4 points per model. When you consider that you can get 20 Tactical Marines and 1 Apothecary for a total of 295 points for 21 T4 3+ save 5+ FNP, it makes the Orks look not as overpowered. (Though, I must confess, I quite like Orks and want them to be competitive so I may have bit of a bias there )
Hopefully that helps out a bit! Also, this list is intended solely for 30k. 30k games are intended to be at least 2000+ points, and as Ashiraya noted that's when the Legion list really comes into its own. I have done some intermittent testing and not found the Orks to be too crazy. Powerful? Oh yes, you don't want to be charged by them. But a mob of 40-50 boyz is extremely unwieldy and they have zero LD protection other than mob rule.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/23 15:36:54
2015/07/23 23:55:14
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Yeah like I said not too clued on re; 30k, forgot that they have larger initial costs and smaller ones to increase the unit size.
Does 30k have formation spam in the same manner as 40k?
Will suss out some ideas and flick them your way. Would love to have a better warhammer dex for my boyz, and while the Zaghammer one is far better than normal I'd be keen to use something a bit more esoteric with new unit entries, clan bonuses, and so forth
Also, for the love of Gork we gotta dump that mob rule. That rule is awful and clumsy, worst thing about the dex by a mile
2015/07/24 03:31:05
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
I'll playtest Justaerin with thise and let you know how they go. I love the idea of them getting merciless fighters with unwieldy weapons, would actually be a unique addition and worth the points.
Here's to hoping FW see sense...
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2015/07/24 05:08:10
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Marshal Loss wrote: I'll playtest Justaerin with thise and let you know how they go. I love the idea of them getting merciless fighters with unwieldy weapons, would actually be a unique addition and worth the points.
Here's to hoping FW see sense...
I would only allow they merciless fighters with the Justaerin Power axe, allowing all unwieldy weapons makes them really OTT
2015/07/24 14:46:21
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Dakkamite wrote:Yeah like I said not too clued on re; 30k, forgot that they have larger initial costs and smaller ones to increase the unit size.
Does 30k have formation spam in the same manner as 40k?
Will suss out some ideas and flick them your way. Would love to have a better warhammer dex for my boyz, and while the Zaghammer one is far better than normal I'd be keen to use something a bit more esoteric with new unit entries, clan bonuses, and so forth
Also, for the love of Gork we gotta dump that mob rule. That rule is awful and clumsy, worst thing about the dex by a mile
It's all good, 30k has a lot of stuff in it. And please, feel free to post any ideas that you have - as already evidenced in this thread it helps to have multiple points of view!
Nope, there are zero formations in 30k! There are Rites of War for Legions only which modifies the army list, but there pros and cons to each Rite so there are no real "auto takes" except maybe Orbital Strike.
In regards to changes with Mob Rule, if I could list all the changes I wanted in the current Ork codex it would take over this thread I could certainly see some basic changes though, and of course you'll notice the Ork Clanz rule is set up so that you can choose any of the clans.
Marshal Loss wrote:I'll playtest Justaerin with thise and let you know how they go. I love the idea of them getting merciless fighters with unwieldy weapons, would actually be a unique addition and worth the points.
Here's to hoping FW see sense...
Awesome, please let me know how it goes! I'm excited to hear about how they go.
PastelAvenger wrote:
I would only allow they merciless fighters with the Justaerin Power axe, allowing all unwieldy weapons makes them really OTT
I don't think it's too over the top - the first 3 are 205 points which comes out to 68 points per model, with further models being 45 points per model. Then look at Fire Drakes, which are 275 for 5 and for 25 more points (so 300 for 5) they can all have Powerfists and a 3+ invulnerable save! That's only 60 points for the first 5.
The Justaerin are more mobile and more offensive (which makes sense), you also have to consider that Merciless fighters only kicks in if they outnumber their opponent which could certainly be difficult to do with their high unit cost. But hey, playtesting will reveal all. My initial tests show that they're absolutely brutal charging and hold their own versus nearly any unit except the aforementioned Firedrakes. More if anything they are the ultimate bully unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/24 15:08:02
2015/07/24 22:43:46
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Sorry I don't think I've made myself clear, I thought Justaerin would ignore unwieldy and therefore strike at I. If this was the case it would make they to powerful.
By making the axe a special Justaerin one you circumvent the issue unless you are just going to choose to ignore the line that says must have first attacked when relating to merciless Fighters, this can be a bit clumsy though rules wise.
2015/07/26 02:29:43
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Marshal Loss wrote: I'll playtest Justaerin with thise and let you know how they go. I love the idea of them getting merciless fighters with unwieldy weapons, would actually be a unique addition and worth the points.
Here's to hoping FW see sense...
I would only allow they merciless fighters with the Justaerin Power axe, allowing all unwieldy weapons makes them really OTT
You should probably re-read the thread & my post...
Marshal Loss wrote:I'll playtest Justaerin with thise and let you know how they go. I love the idea of them getting merciless fighters with unwieldy weapons, would actually be a unique addition and worth the points.
Here's to hoping FW see sense...
Awesome, please let me know how it goes! I'm excited to hear about how they go.
Played a 2500 pt game!
They went very well, the buff makes them significantly more powerful in cc (no shock). I'd suggest removing Fearless and putting Stubborn back though - they are rarely going to lose combat as is, and that provides an incentive to take the banner option you added in there in the case of command squads. Fearless would be a unique addition to the unit though, so I'm 50/50 on that.
But overall, I think they were pretty balanced! They are still extremely expensive in terms of bodies, so I don't think they're overpowered at all. The extra merciless fighters attack at AP2 means that they're far less likely to get tarpitted, and if you get them Rage with Black Reaving they're unholy rape machines on the charge with 5 Str 6 AP2 attacks. The BS5 buff means they're a great plaform for combi-weapons now, and don't need the Cognis Signum of Horus, which is a bigger buff than it seems.
Sadly local tournaments won't accept houserules but I'll probably keep using this between friends if they're okay with it. We can only hope FW realise that Justaerin need a bit of a helping hand in order to become viable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/26 03:33:03
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2015/07/29 17:38:22
Subject: Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
They went very well, the buff makes them significantly more powerful in cc (no shock). I'd suggest removing Fearless and putting Stubborn back though - they are rarely going to lose combat as is, and that provides an incentive to take the banner option you added in there in the case of command squads. Fearless would be a unique addition to the unit though, so I'm 50/50 on that.
But overall, I think they were pretty balanced! They are still extremely expensive in terms of bodies, so I don't think they're overpowered at all. The extra merciless fighters attack at AP2 means that they're far less likely to get tarpitted, and if you get them Rage with Black Reaving they're unholy rape machines on the charge with 5 Str 6 AP2 attacks. The BS5 buff means they're a great plaform for combi-weapons now, and don't need the Cognis Signum of Horus, which is a bigger buff than it seems.
Sadly local tournaments won't accept houserules but I'll probably keep using this between friends if they're okay with it. We can only hope FW realise that Justaerin need a bit of a helping hand in order to become viable.
Hi Marshal! Glad you took them out for a spin. I was in Mexico and hence no internet for the past several days, but I'm back!
You make a good point about removing Fearless and putting back in Stubborn, especially with the command banner.
Also, I'm very happy to hear that you enjoyed them and that you felt that they were decently balanced. Was their any sort of complaint from your opponent or any sort of negative (or positive) comments towards them? They are easily the most expensive of all the special terminator variants, but I still want them to be decently pointed. Not a no-brainer, sure, but not a "joke" unit. The BS5 is certainly a unique thing and I'd be curious as to how you'd feel if they lost the BS5? I understand it's a big deal with combi-weapons of course, but at 65+ points per guy I think BS5 is fair.
2015/08/04 16:31:11
Subject: Re:Fixes and Additions for Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Books (Including Orkz!)
Long time no see - that's what happens to when you get Montezuma's Revenge
LEGION DESTROYER SQUAD
Damn these guys are cool. I take them quite often but it's more for fun rather than anything, and they need Jump Packs but it's ridiculously expensive. To this end I've reduced prices on Jump Packs across the board, which makes them a bit more useable. Also FW has been lax with the unit taxes this lately and the Destroyer Tax was pretty hardcore. So I fixed that too.
Finally, I added one more option: Virus Grenades. Not the horrifying stuff of old, but something more balanced and cool. Their stats are as follows:
Virus Grenades: Str1 AP - Fleshbane, Ignores Cover 3” Blast, Replication: On a to-wound roll of 6 one model within 3” of a model hit by this weapon also takes a Str1 AP - hit with the Fleshbane and Ignores Cover, and Replication special rules.
I also allowed the entire unit to take a single Volkite Serpenta, for quite a large cost: 50 points for the squad.
Unit Composition
4 Destroyer Marines
1 Destroyer Sergeant
Unit Type
Infantry [Destroyer Marines only]
Infantry (Character) [Destroyer Sergeant only]
Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Two Bolt Pistols Each
-Frag, Krak, and Rad Grenades
Special Rules
-Legiones Astartes
-Counter Attack
Options:
May take up to 5 additional Destroyers - 20 points/model
Entire squad may take Jump Packs-35 points
Entire squad may take Virus Grenades-20 points
The unit may replace one/both of its bolt pistols with Volkite Serpentas: 50/80 points
One in 5 may replace one of their Bolt Pistols with one of the following:
-Hand Flamer: 5 points
-Plasma Pistol: 15 points
-Rad/Irad Cleanser: 15 points
-Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles*:25 points (*if the unit has Virus Grenades, the Missile Launcher is also equipped with Virus Grenades)
)
