Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Had a quick question about the Seer of the Shifting Vector Warlord Trait.

Since it allows friendly units with the Eldar Faction to deepstrike without scatter, would I be able to use that for Fire Dragons in a Dark Eldar Venom? I assume I could do it the other way around with a Wave Serpent full of Grotesque or if I had a Dark Eldar character attached to the Eldar unit, but I'm not as sure about using a different faction's vehicle with an Eldar unit embarked on it.

You won't get a clear answer, re: Purifier's in blood angels fast attack pods.


Personally, yes. The unit is arriving by deep strike.

greytalon666 wrote:
You won't get a clear answer, re: Purifier's in blood angels fast attack pods.


Personally, yes. The unit is arriving by deep strike.

Which unit? The transport, or the infantry embarked on it?

I'd also check to see if the warlord trait is restricted by detachment- i,.e Tiggy's Master of Prescience.

Sure the Fire Dragons would arrive without scattering, but it's the Venom they're embarked on that you roll scatter for, no?

Breton wrote:
I'd also check to see if the warlord trait is restricted by detachment- i,.e Tiggy's Master of Prescience.

It applies to "... friendly units with the Eldar Faction..." which would disqualify the Dark Eldar Venom.

They are ONE unit by virtue of combined unit rules.

 Ghaz wrote:

Breton wrote:
I'd also check to see if the warlord trait is restricted by detachment- i,.e Tiggy's Master of Prescience.

It applies to "... friendly units with the Eldar Faction..." which would disqualify the Dark Eldar Venom.

I went for the easy one first, as DE and Eldar can't be in the same detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

greytalon666 wrote:
They are ONE unit by virtue of combined unit rules.

They are? Or are they two units that arrive together?

greytalon666 wrote:
They are ONE unit by virtue of combined unit rules.

Read the entire rule:

Friendly units with the Eldar Faction arriving by Deep Strike do not scatter as long as the first model is placed within 12" of the Warlord.

The first model to be placed is not a member of a "... friendly unit with the Eldar Faction..." so the unit in the Venom would not benefit, even if it is a unit with the Eldar Faction.

greytalon666 wrote:
They are ONE unit by virtue of combined unit rules.

And yet you must place and roll scatter for the Venom, which isn't applicable for the benefit of the rule.

Seems reasonable enough. It will be fine the other way around as I said then, right? Eldar vehicles with dark eldar passengers.

Also, I don't really know how to define a unit's faction when it has some models from multiple factions. It sounds like you guys are saying as long as the first model placed is Eldar, than the rest of the unit won't scatter. So Autarch with wings attached to Scourges or something would make the whole unit land with precision as long as the Autarch is the first model I place?

 lessthanjeff wrote:
It sounds like you guys are saying as long as the first model placed is Eldar, than the rest of the unit won't scatter. So Autarch with wings attached to Scourges or something would make the whole unit land with precision as long as the Autarch is the first model I place?

The problem with that however is the IC counts as a member of the unit he has joined for all rules purposes.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
Also, I don't really know how to define a unit's faction when it has some models from multiple factions. It sounds like you guys are saying as long as the first model placed is Eldar, than the rest of the unit won't scatter. So Autarch with wings attached to Scourges or something would make the whole unit land with precision as long as the Autarch is the first model I place?

As Ghaz alludes to, it depends on what the unit being placed's faction is. In the case of the Venom it's of the Dark Eldar faction regardless of what's embarked upon it. In the case of an Independent Character having joined another unit then it will be the unit's, rather than the joined Independent Character's, faction. In the case of one Independent Character joined to another, it will be the faction of the Independent Character who was joined (i.e. the one who did not move into coherency) because of how the rules for Independent Characters joining other units are worded.

 lessthanjeff wrote:


Also, I don't really know how to define a unit's faction when it has some models from multiple factions. It sounds like you guys are saying as long as the first model placed is Eldar, than the rest of the unit won't scatter. So Autarch with wings attached to Scourges or something would make the whole unit land with precision as long as the Autarch is the first model I place?

Probably not. Does the Autarch join the scourges, or do the scourges join the autarch? You're talking about deep strike, so they're off the table (thus nobody "moved into coherency with the other) and every reference I've ever seen says the IC joins the unit.

When deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit...
- Combined Reserve Units

You specified the order of joining as part of the Reserve process.

So there's a place where you can specifiy which units are joining IC's or does it only the joining in one direction during that reserves step?

Where in the Combined Reserve Unit Rule does it grant permission to specify that the Unit is joining the Independent Character?

The venom is not a dedicated transport for the fire dragons, as such, it has different rules and is not a part of the same unit.

Choose the Venom and the dragons can come with it.

Choose the dragons and the venom does not come with them.

Hang on, DE are battle brothers to Eldar, and are Eldar Faction to boot, so both the Venom and Fire Dragons would benefit from this warlord trait, no?

Eldar and Dark Eldar are not different faction? I thought they were allied in, and you can't ally in the same faction?

 ibushi wrote:
Hang on, DE are battle brothers to Eldar, and are Eldar Faction to boot, so both the Venom and Fire Dragons would benefit from this warlord trait, no?

Eldar are Faction: Eldar while Dark Eldar are Faction: Dark Eldar. They're not the same Faction.

effreem wrote:
The venom is not a dedicated transport for the fire dragons, as such, it has different rules and is not a part of the same unit.

Choose the Venom and the dragons can come with it.

Choose the dragons and the venom does not come with them.

Even if the Venom were a dedicated transport for the Fire Dragons it still has different rules and would still not be part of the same unit.

The rules for 'Combined Reserve Units' allows you to choose to role for the unit and/or its transport vehicle/joined independent characters, so if you choose the Venom and have declared the Fire Dragons are embarked then the Fire Dragons will come with it.