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As the title of the post suggests..if I were to begin to play 40K competitively what could I expect the top lists/armies to be? What are the top competitive armies and what would I most likely see across the table?

Thanks!

1) Space Marine Gladius, either razorbacks or Pods with Skyhammer


2) Eldar Scatbikes Scytheguard and WKs in a CAD


3) Decurion Crons

4) War Convocation free upgrade stupidity.

5) Pentyrant


6) Daemonstar


7) Ork Green Tide based lists

8) Tau firebase based lists

I am not very familiar with the following terms:

Gladius
Decurion
War Convocation "stupidity"
Pentyrant
Daemonstar

If you could explain these a little bit that would be much appreciated

Thanks!

EDIT: Or point me in the right direction of where I can educate myself.

Decurion: Necron Super-formation. Increases the durability of Necrons to a stupid amount.

Gladius: SM super- formation. Expect 10-12 free dedicated transports, either drop pods or razorbacks.

War Convo: a moneygrab formation released by GW a whole ago. Combine Skiitari and Cult Mech with a knight, get every upgrade for all your units for free. Roughly 500 free points on 1850.

Pentyrant: a list designed to squeeze 5 flying hive tyrants in one list.

Daemonstar: a daemon list revolving around super destructive unkillable units. Features ye olde rerollable 2++ save.

Thank you for explaining those. I am hoping to combat stuff like that with some 'not-as-cheesy' lists. Unfortunately I play Chaos and BA so it may be a tough road ahead. "thumbsup:

Well, you're not going to if you go in with the standard "scrub" attitude, believing you only lose because everything you play against is cheesy or overpowered.

Which chaos? If it's both daemons and CSM, take a look at the army that just won the BAO..

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, you're not going to if you go in with the standard "scrub" attitude, believing you only lose because everything you play against is cheesy or overpowered.

Which chaos? If it's both daemons and CSM, take a look at the army that just won the BAO..

Listen to this and just forget about BA.

the_scotsman wrote:
1) Space Marine Gladius, either razorbacks or Pods with Skyhammer


2) Eldar Scatbikes Scytheguard and WKs in a CAD


3) Decurion Crons

4) War Convocation free upgrade stupidity.

5) Pentyrant


6) Daemonstar


7) Ork Green Tide based lists

8) Tau firebase based lists

How effective would Razorbacks/Skyhammer be? Or does the latter only work well with steel rain builds?

Well, you're not going to if you go in with the standard "scrub" attitude, believing you only lose because everything you play against is cheesy or overpowered.

I was being sarcastic lol. But I normally play Nurgle CSM no allies, however, I will occasionally throw down some daemons with them and would certainly do this in a tournament. I would probably run my BA as [Red]White Scars or something in a tournament if I decided to bring them. But CSM/Daemons just seem better and more fun.
EDIT: I just took a look at the BAO and IDK what I was expecting but I wish it was Nurgle-centric ;( ... I am not a fan of running fortifications either but that list seems very solid. Thanks for pointing me towards it as it seems like a good look at the current meta.

"my BA as [Red]White Scars or something in a tournament if I decided to bring them"

Atta boy!

All BA need to be competitive are some Skitarii allies

"All BA need to be competitive are some Skitarii allies"

You mean a Skitarii list with BA taxis. Feth that.

Well that is a BA list isn't it? It's indifferent to how Daemon players use CSM or Eldar use Dark Eldar to improve themselves

I wish my Tau and 'Nids had a way to become super cheesy

Again, let me point you at BAO. There was a mono-tau list at the top 8 and a mono-Nid list at 16.

And Tau/Eldar at top 8. They beat out all the DA, IK, Mono-Eldar and Wraith Decurion lists in the tourney to get there.

"Well that is a BA list isn't it?"

No, it really isn't.

I shouldn't have to mix codices anyway to field an average list.

Also, Nurgle CSM is doable but requires a hefty FW tax to be good. With the new Nurgle Knight (aka wraithknight-b-gone) the Sicarians/Vinducator Destroyer/Typhon, with the solid base of plague marines, spawn, Heldrakes and Nurgle bikers CSM have the edge on most low tier armies in terms of what they can pull in a tourney. Luckily in the standard format, their worst matchup Eldar D-spam is heavily Nerfed.

the_scotsman wrote:
Again, let me point you at BAO. There was a mono-tau list at the top 8 and a mono-Nid list at 16.

And Tau/Eldar at top 8. They beat out all the DA, IK, Mono-Eldar and Wraith Decurion lists in the tourney to get there.

Yeah, one place behind Orks so what does that tell you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
"Well that is a BA list isn't it?"

No, it really isn't.

I shouldn't have to mix codices anyway to field an average list.

Abolish the IoM shenanigan then you can had a good standalone codex

"Abolish the IoM shenanigan then you can had a good standalone codex "

Apparently GW doesn't agree with you, because Skyhammer exists. Mono vanilla marines is brutal.

And there is no codex IoM. But we've been over this before. I'm not going to pay-to-win and so therefore IoM doesn't exist for me.

It tells me that low tier in 40k means "lacking in options" not "unwinnable game."

Tau, orks, Nids, SW, daemons, CSM, GK, and AdMech are all part of tier 2 currently. They can and frequently do place just as good as the tier 1 armies, but they have highly limited builds available.

BA, IG, Sisters, and DE are tier 3: only usable as one-half of an Ally equation if you wanna see upper tables.

So "placing behind orks" doesn't mean anything for the competitiveness of tau, because that tau list placed AHEAD of dozens of Necron, Eldar, and SM players. Play that list, and you've got a top of the heap list and have no grounds to complain lists at anyone.

" only usable as one-half of an Ally equation if you wanna see upper tables. "

Why would you ever use BA for an ally when you can get vanilla marines, though?

Martel732 wrote:
" only usable as one-half of an Ally equation if you wanna see upper tables. "

Why would you ever use BA for an ally when you can get vanilla marines, though?

Because you want six pods for your skitarii instead of three.

Vanilla marines don't have Crazy Sanguinius' Discount Drop Pod Lot detachment.

That's what BA have, and it sucks, but it is versatile-makes a Sisters, Guard, or Skiitari list capable of punching with the big boys.

the_scotsman wrote:
Vanilla marines don't have Crazy Sanguinius' Discount Drop Pod Lot detachment.

That's what BA have, and it sucks, but it is versatile-makes a Sisters, Guard, or Skiitari list capable of punching with the big boys.

I really hate 7th. This is just stupid.

Eh. Everyone's got their time in the sun/shade. At least BA and SW players have the opportunity to run their guys as marines, IG and sisters players can't do that.

7th has more armies actually viable than I've ever seen at once. There's literally four that are bad right now-that's huge compared to say 5th ed.

I play Guard Orks and SWs, and 7th is getting zero complaints from me.

the_scotsman wrote:
Eh. Everyone's got their time in the sun/shade. At least BA and SW players have the opportunity to run their guys as marines, IG and sisters players can't do that.

7th has more armies actually viable than I've ever seen at once. There's literally four that are bad right now-that's huge compared to say 5th ed.

I play Guard Orks and SWs, and 7th is getting zero complaints from me.

The issue is that most BA players lack a ton of vanilla models. And it's still lame to be a taxi service for real lists.

I'd just run BA as double Skyhammer with BA cad or single Skyhammer with the charge out of DS BA formation. That's a fairly beast BA list right there that's a great anti-meta vs Eldar Tau and Necrons.

Also, don't think of them as taxis for real lists. They're taxis for lists that otherwise wouldn't be usable. The existence of BA pod-taxi is what keeps guard sisters and skiitari on the table currently. Besides, it's not like you take only pods-all those lists use good quantities of BA units. Five units of meltavets and a CCS isn't gonna fill your 1850 tourney list.

Skyhammer is vanilla only I thought.

Yeah, but if you're willing to run BA as counts as SMs why not do the opposite? Skyhammer is drop pods, assault marines, and Devs with bolter buddies. Most BA players I know have everything but the Devs, and it's not like they're not in your codex-if the BA Dex gets a buff and you don't need the Skyhammer anymore, you don't have a single model you can't use with BAs. Don't even need to buy extra bits as you can make 4x Grav 4x MM with sergeant Combi's out of the new Dev boxes.

I honestly can't think of a more fluffy BA list-all drop assault in your face murdertime. And it'd be as competitive as you like.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, but if you're willing to run BA as counts as SMs why not do the opposite? Skyhammer is drop pods, assault marines, and Devs with bolter buddies. Most BA players I know have everything but the Devs, and it's not like they're not in your codex-if the BA Dex gets a buff and you don't need the Skyhammer anymore, you don't have a single model you can't use with BAs. Don't even need to buy extra bits as you can make 4x Grav 4x MM with sergeant Combi's out of the new Dev boxes.

I honestly can't think of a more fluffy BA list-all drop assault in your face murdertime. And it'd be as competitive as you like.

That's an interesting thought.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, but if you're willing to run BA as counts as SMs why not do the opposite? Skyhammer is drop pods, assault marines, and Devs with bolter buddies. Most BA players I know have everything but the Devs, and it's not like they're not in your codex-if the BA Dex gets a buff and you don't need the Skyhammer anymore, you don't have a single model you can't use with BAs. Don't even need to buy extra bits as you can make 4x Grav 4x MM with sergeant Combi's out of the new Dev boxes.

I honestly can't think of a more fluffy BA list-all drop assault in your face murdertime. And it'd be as competitive as you like.

Now I am all giddy with excitement.