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Okay so this is a question that i have debated between my friends and at the local GW store. and no one can agree on an answer.

For the DW strike force detachment it states that
'all units in this detachment must have the DW special rule or be dedicated transports'.

but it also says that all units in the detachment must start in deep strike reserve.

so here is my question, can a unit of DW terminators selects a land raider as a dedicated transport whilst it is part of the detachment. i know land raiders cannot deep strike so would the unit would instead move on from the back of the board, as if in normal reserve?

the codex doesnt actually say that DW terminators cannot take land raiders as part of this detachment.

in the BRB it says if you cannot deploy a unit it goes into ongoing reserves (i cant remember what page number though)

because land raiders cant deep strike, they would just get put into normal reserves?

I am so confused!!!!!!!!!!

what are your thoughts

Maybe?

Nothing prevents them from taking Land Raiders, however, nothing allows the Land Raiders to enter from Deep Strike Reserve (meaning they are stuck in Reserves and then count as destroyed when the game ends).

 Happyjew wrote:
Maybe?

Nothing prevents them from taking Land Raiders, however, nothing allows the Land Raiders to enter from Deep Strike Reserve (meaning they are stuck in Reserves and then count as destroyed when the game ends).

exactly my thoughts. surely if gw had intended to have a 100% deep striking detachment they would have worded the restrictions better.

ie. may only take dedicated transports with the ds special rule.

that way it would only permit dreadnoughts to take drop pods, and land raiders would obviously be out of the question.

If it can't start in dsr, it goes to regular reserves and follows those rules.

Is that your take on the rules or is that in a faq?

It's his hiwpi. Which should be marked as such

It's been discussed at length in another thread. There's no permissions to be in DSR without deep striking.

The consensus seemed to lean towards "if it cant be put in DSR, it cant be taken in the strike force"

I'd be happy either way, but many would consider taking LRs in a detachment that you know must deep strike as cheating.

Taking Land Raiders in a Deathwing Strike Force basically violates the detachment rules, so while not expressly restricted from doing so you cannot fulfill the detachment's rules and requirements if you try it.

If you are forced into deepstrike reserve then you deepstrike, even if you don't have the rule.

This has been already discussed and solved when we noticed that pods have the same ruling i.e. no deep strike but must arrive by deep strike.

Spoletta wrote:
If you are forced into deepstrike reserve then you deepstrike, even if you don't have the rule.

This has been already discussed and solved when we noticed that pods have the same ruling i.e. no deep strike but must arrive by deep strike.

Two points:

1) One hole in the rules cannot be explained by showing another hole in the rules.

2) The Deathwing Strike Force rules are not specific to Land Raiders, while Drop Pod Assault is specific to Drop Pods.

Spoletta wrote:
If you are forced into deepstrike reserve then you deepstrike, even if you don't have the rule.

This has been already discussed and solved when we noticed that pods have the same ruling i.e. no deep strike but must arrive by deep strike.

iirc, you were told by more than one person that putting land raiders in deep strike reserve without permission is cheating.

drop pod assault is a rule for drop pods only. IF it is broken, it still has no bearing on land raiders AT ALL

Oh god please let's not start this whole mess again.
We have discussed this more than necessarily and your arguments Jokerkd have been proven wrong. Let's not reopen again this discussion.


@OP
Your question has been already answered here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654141.page
It was a lengthy discussion though, and got resolved only in the last pages, so i'm sorry to inform you that you're likely to have to read all the 6 pages to know how and why the rule works.

Also, since this has already been covered and reopening the same argument could only lead to flames i'd ask a mod to close this if possible.

It wasnt proven wrong; you just didnt accept a specific allowance covering thisituation where this i no specific allowance.

Spoletta wrote:
Oh god please let's not start this whole mess again.
We have discussed this more than necessarily and your arguments Jokerkd have been proven wrong. Let's not reopen again this discussion.


@OP
Your question has been already answered here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654141.page
It was a lengthy discussion though, and got resolved only in the last pages, so i'm sorry to inform you that you're likely to have to read all the 6 pages to know how and why the rule works.

Also, since this has already been covered and reopening the same argument could only lead to flames i'd ask a mod to close this if possible.

None of that seems resolved to me.

Following the can't start on the table so you have to start in reserves section. Formation says you have to start in DSR and landraiders can't be there. Since they can't start on the table due to the need to be in DSR, they go to normal reserves, and follow those rules. They don't go to normal reserves and never come on like someone else suggested.

Except they must start in DSR. Failing to start them in DSR means you have broken a rule, which is cheating

 jokerkd wrote:
It's his hiwpi. Which should be marked as such

It's been discussed at length in another thread. There's no permissions to be in DSR without deep striking.

The consensus seemed to lean towards "if it cant be put in DSR, it cant be taken in the strike force"

I'd be happy either way, but many would consider taking LRs in a detachment that you know must deep strike as cheating.

I'm not sure there was a consensus either way. The discussion as I recall petered out when it was pointed out the Drop Pod had similar phraseology and nobody really knew where to go from there other than the novelty thought that Drop Pods weren't RAW legal if the Deep Striking Land Raider wasn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
If you are forced into deepstrike reserve then you deepstrike, even if you don't have the rule.

This has been already discussed and solved when we noticed that pods have the same ruling i.e. no deep strike but must arrive by deep strike.

Two points:

1) One hole in the rules cannot be explained by showing another hole in the rules.

2) The Deathwing Strike Force rules are not specific to Land Raiders, while Drop Pod Assault is specific to Drop Pods.

2) But it was specific to the formation, which allowed Land Raiders. One "hole" in the rules" can be used to discern what to do with a similar one.

It does appear that per RAI, DW should not be taking Land Raiders, as the only Dedicated Transport mentioned n the Formation is for the lone Dreadnought being required to arrive by Drop Pod.

However, per RAW, Land Rarders are Dedicated Transports that may be legally acquired by DW Terminators, and the formation grants permission for DTs to be in the formation. Further, the formation demands that all units in the formation start in Deep Strike Reserve, and arrive by Deep Strike, which grants via implication the ability to Deep Strike on any Land Raiders taken.

HIWPI is to allow it. GW wrote it, even if they might not have intended for it. Also, Blood Angels have been able to DS Land Raiders for years now, and we all know how often that's worked out in live play. From my point of view, I don't see an issue.

SJ

Pods were not the only model that was found with that rule, after it was clear what to look for then more models with the same rule situation appeared in that thread.

Just accept that being put into deepstrike reserve means that you arrive on the table by deepstrike.

GW is not consistent in that, we have models that are forced in deepstrike which have the DS rule and others that don't.

But as i said, please let's not start this again. All that could be said on the topic has been said in that other thread.

I don't know about RAI being no land raiders in this force due to several reasons.
1. The redemption formation is already available that allows only terms and dreanoughts. Why repeat it?
2. The DWSF is supposed to be the formation where you can bring the whole DW to battle (like the RWSF). Why would they create this force without allowing terminators their transports?
Now as a counter to this, the associated fluff does talk about the DW teleporting into the heart of the battle, so maybe they only wanted LR available as a CAD.

Like I stated earlier, RAW supports it, although RAI might not. HIWPI is per RAW, because it's not a game changer.

SJ

Nor is it the first time we've had units deep striking via invisible theoretical landers and transports that never make it onto the game board.

Breton wrote:
Nor is it the first time we've had units deep striking via invisible theoretical landers and transports that never make it onto the game board.

Well, the Legion from Lucius can Deep Strike entire Titans, so it's not like a Space Marine Chapter can't airdrop a Land Raider.

SJ

Thank you for all your comments.

This obviously opened a can of worms but the general gist I get from this that they can take land raiders.

But I would ask my opponent whether they agree they should start in normal reserve or can indeed deep strike

I think that's the most diplomatic way to do it

Oh I still don't think there is a general gist, and yeah, you'd have to work it out with your opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Breton wrote:
Nor is it the first time we've had units deep striking via invisible theoretical landers and transports that never make it onto the game board.

Well, the Legion from Lucius can Deep Strike entire Titans, so it's not like a Space Marine Chapter can't airdrop a Land Raider.

SJ

There's a thunderhawk transporter for just such an event.

Isn't this the same nonsense that people were having over the Nemesis Strike Force? People were trying to put Land Raiders into Deep Strike Reserve and then, since they couldn't DS, just drive them on? Or people would say "But I put it in DSR so now it gets to Deep Strike because that's how you come in from Deep Strike Reserve!"

Lendys wrote:
Isn't this the same nonsense that people were having over the Nemesis Strike Force? People were trying to put Land Raiders into Deep Strike Reserve and then, since they couldn't DS, just drive them on? Or people would say "But I put it in DSR so now it gets to Deep Strike because that's how you come in from Deep Strike Reserve!"

No...it was a completely different sort of nonsense.

Nonsense based around putting purifiers in a Drop Pod and claiming that they have "selected" the purifiers to DS, therefore they come down turn one (in addition to the other drop pods arriving turn 1 due to Drop pod assualt rules)

Utter nonsense, as despite "selecting" the purifiers, they then try to place the transport.

Lendys wrote:
Isn't this the same nonsense that

How kind of you to refer to trying to find a fair way to follow a theoretically murky area of rules as nonsense.

The formation doesn't prohibit taking Land Raiders. The units are allowed them as DTs. The Formation requires Deep Striking everything. There's no more evidence they're prohibited than there is they deep strike.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nonsense based around putting purifiers in a Drop Pod and claiming that they have "selected" the purifiers to DS, therefore they come down turn one (in addition to the other drop pods arriving turn 1 due to Drop pod assualt rules)

Utter nonsense, as despite "selecting" the purifiers, they then try to place the transport.

Statements like this are due to ignorance of the rules, because if you understood or even bothered to read the Combined Reserved Unit rules, you wouldn't make poorly thought out statements like what is quoted above.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nonsense based around putting purifiers in a Drop Pod and claiming that they have "selected" the purifiers to DS, therefore they come down turn one (in addition to the other drop pods arriving turn 1 due to Drop pod assualt rules)

Utter nonsense, as despite "selecting" the purifiers, they then try to place the transport.

Statements like this are due to ignorance of the rules, because if you understood or even bothered to read the Combined Reserved Unit rules, you wouldn't make poorly thought out statements like what is quoted above.

SJ

If he read the rules, he'd have to admit he was wrong. Easier to just feign ignorance.

If drop pods can deep strike, land raiders in this formation can deep strike. And as others have pointed out, the blood angel experience showed they're actually not very effective.