Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know there have been a few other thread about buffing Blood Angels so they are more competitive in the current meta, this is a little different.

I'm a very long term BA player and have a huge force of Red painted Space Marines that I use as both Blood Angels and Space Marines (sometimes DA as well). As such it really frustrates me that the same units in different codex's are vastly different.

Before people say it, yes I know that I should suck it up and just play with what's in the book and yes Blood Angels likely should be rolled into the main Space Marine book and various other opinions ;-)

I think it's clear that the past few codex's have been designed with a new power level in mind than that used in the other books designed since the beginning of sixth edition which leaves BA in a sorry state as they were the last codex released before this jump in power.

Whilst I would love BA to get loads of new options, formations, combi-formations and please god Assault marine troops that's not what I'm proposing here.

The following is a list of changes to the costs and options in the BA book to bring it in line with the established new norm as presented in the New Space Marine and Dark Angels codex's. I'm not adding anything different or special I'm just wanting to update the BA book so it is the same as the newer books.

My play group is very open to the idea but I'd like some feedback on the list of changes before presenting it to them to see if I've gotten anything wrong or missed any other changes. The idea is to change the things that I believe GW would change in the next book so it is all inline, they usually do this to all the marine books to make them the same as the vanilla standard.

Blood Angels Update to 7th Edition Space Marines

Add the following to the Heavy Weapon list: Grav-Cannon and Grav-amp = 35pts.
Teleport Homers in the Special Issue Wargear list, Tactical Marine options and Scout options are changed to 5pts.
Change the points cost in the Dreadnought Weapon list to the following: Plasma Cannon = 5pts, Assault Cannon = 10pts, TL Lascannon = 15pts.
Mephiston, Librarians, Librarian Dreadnoughts all gain access to the Telekinesis psykic discipline. (this is changed as both the Vanilla and DA books gave access to an additional power and this keeps the BA in line, it was a choice between Telek, or Telep)
Librarian Dreadnoughts are changed to A:4.
Techmarines are changed to 65pts, BS:5, W:2, A:2, LD:9 and replace their Boltgun with a Poweraxe.
Scouts are changed to WS:4, BS:4.
Dreadnoughts are changed to A:4 and may be taken in units of 1-3, only single model units may take a dedicated transport.
Death Company Dreadnoughts are changed to A=5.
Furioso Dreadnoughts are changed to A=4, and may be taken in units of 1-3, only single model units may take a dedicated transport.
Terminator Squads are changed to 175pts and additional Terminators are changed to 35pts.
Terminator Assault Squads are changed to 175pts and additional Assault Terminators are changed to 35pts, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield are changed to 10pts.
Vanguard Veterans Heroic Intervention is changed to the following: Re-roll one or both dice when assaulting and ignore the penalties of making a disordered charge. Also Reduce the cost of all Melee weapons by 10pts each.
Landspeeders are changed to 45pts and the costs of additional weapons are changed to the following: Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter = 5pts, Multi-melta =15pts, Assault Cannon =20pts. Units of three gain Anti-grav Upwash rule (see Codex Space Marines).
Assault Squads are changed to 70pts and additional Assault Marines are changed to 14pts. Jump packs are removed from their wargear list, all models in the unit may purchase Jump Packs for 3pts/model. One model per 5 may take an Eviserator for 25pts. The unit may take a dedicated transport if it doesn’t take Jump Packs.
Attack Bikes changed to 40pts in both their entry and the Bike squad entry.
Scout Bikes are changed to WS:4, BS:4.
Devastators gain the following option: Armorium Cherub = 5pts.
Predators maybe taken in units of 1-3, units containing three models gain the Killshot rule (see codex Space Marines).
Vindicators maybe taken in units of 1-3, units containing three models gain the Linebreaker Bombardment rule (see codex Space Marines).
Whirlwinds maybe taken in units of 1-3, units containing three models gain the Suppressive Bombardment rule (see codex Space Marines).

Thanks for any feedback.

My own views on what needs to be changed match yours. For me the biggest frustration are dreadnoughts and Scouts. Thankfully most opponents have the common sense to allow BA players to use the Space Marine book stats for the same units.

I have emailed GW's errata/rules team (as I'm sure lots of other people have). I really do not understand why after the new Space Marine book being out for weeks they have not put up a Blood Angels errata. Not as if it takes long to put a few pages with basic stat increases.

Haven't read every line, but copypasta from C:SM? A good idea.

The few variance (granting telekenisis to Libby's) look like they are in line with SM changes too!

I like it.

(Perhaps a new Pipedream of mine would be BAs dex listing its variance from SM instead of restating all rules. Might make it too similar to a supplement, but I think there is enough meat there to keep them seperate while also dynamically receiving SM changes...)

Without grav cannons, BA will always be an afterthought at this point. Just sayin....

Obviously I haven't given them access to centurions but I have added the Grav-cannon/amp to the heavy weapons list so Tac squads and Devs have access to them.

 WisdomLS wrote:
Obviously I haven't given them access to centurions but I have added the Grav-cannon/amp to the heavy weapons list so Tac squads and Devs have access to them.

That's actually very meh without Skyhammer.

I've been messing with something nearly identical. I havent played BA since 3rd I believe it was.. but I'm currently working on errata for all the codexes for my local group. Sad thing is BA are still screwed up in so many ways even with those changes above. How about a few more not already mentioned above, for casual play of course:

CODEX BLOOD ANGELS ERRATA:

• Captain Tycho: both profiles add “Relic of Baal: Valour’s Edge.”
• Sanguinary Priest: add “May replace all Wargear with Terminator armour, Blood Chalice, Narthecium and power weapon…30 pts. A Sanguinary Priest in Terminator armour may only take items from the Terminator Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Baal lists.”
• Command Squad: add “Honor Guard: For each Captain or Chapter Master included in a Detachment (including Captain Tycho Master of Sacrifice, Commander Dante, and Gabriel Seth) the Detachment may include one Command Squad that does not take up a slot on the Force Organization Chart.”
• Baal predator: add Scout USR.
• Gabriel Seth Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers: Blood Reaver replace “AP 4” with “AP 3”. Add “If your primary detachment is chosen from the Blood Angels Faction you may choose to change Gabriel Seth’s Battlefield Role to HQ.”
“Unrestrained Carnage: In a primary detachment that includes Gabriel Seth as a Lord of War, dedicated transports selected by Assault Squads gain the Assault Vehicle USR. Only those Assault Squads, and any attached Independent Characters benefit from this special rule. Charges made by units in the same turn that they disembarked from a vehicle with this special rule count as Disordered Charges.”

Just for starters..

Well, it depends on if the attempt is to apply SM changes to BA too, or to balance them.

OP did a really nice job of the former.

Looking at the topic again its probably the former and your right. Its in line. But thats not enough for them honestly.

I can't speak for anyone else but my current endeavor is a little broader than that. Its about balance but also player enjoyment and satisfaction. Its about brewing potential.

Going back and looking at the previous incarnations of BA, GK.DE or even orks just sets me off. Those book were all sweet and now they are completely gutted.

Anyone check this out? I think the time for player driven erratas and codexes is gathering steam..

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/07/21/codex-sisters-of-battle/

I say write it up and lets play it.

Whilst I fully agree that the BA dex could do with a complete re-write to bring back alot of the flavour and options for list building that were taken away in the latest codex, this thread isn't really about that.
If you start to properly re-write a poor codex then before using it amongst friends I feel that all poor codex's should get the same treatment which is something I just don't have time to do. I applaud your efforts to do just that through

All this is really looking to do is bring BA inline with the new space marine norm, in the last BA dex GW made a concerted effort to standardise the BA with vanilla space marines by changing alot of FOC positions and removing some options. I can kinda see why this was done by when a few months later they change the baseline that they were working on it leaves the BA with substandard basic options and none of the special options that the standard codex has which are generally seen as superior to the special options that are unique to the BA.

This thread is just trying to make the BA standard options the equal of those in the new marine/DA books so it then comes down to a choice between special and flavourful units, I'm under no illusion that the vanilla dex is still vastly superior in most ways but at least when taking BA scouts/terminators and the like with this it doesn't feel like you're shooting yourself in the foot with a shotgun.

Additionally presenting this to a playgroup is alot more palatable that presenting completely homebrew rules even if the homebrew rules have had more playtesting that the average codex, thats just the way it is

Thinking about it, one of the most frustrating things with the latest BA codex is the unbalanced nature of it, i.e. everything good shoved into Elites with less choice elsewhere. If BA special dreadnoughts (furioso, DC dread etc) are made into squadrons of 1-3, not only would it bring the BA codex more into line with the Space Marine/Dark Angels one, but would also go some way towards fixing one of the main underlying problems with the BA book.

 Slaphead wrote:
Thinking about it, one of the most frustrating things with the latest BA codex is the unbalanced nature of it, i.e. everything good shoved into Elites with less choice elsewhere. If BA special dreadnoughts (furioso, DC dread etc) are made into squadrons of 1-3, not only would it bring the BA codex more into line with the Space Marine/Dark Angels one, but would also go some way towards fixing one of the main underlying problems with the BA book.

I actually like FA much, much more. Grav bikers, MM attack bikes. Elites are overpriced CC for the most part. Except DC.

Maybe this has been already said but here is my 2 cents on the BA rules:

1. Keep latest "chapter tactics"
2. Add in a modified Descent of Angels

MODIFIED Descent of Angels: Arriving from deep strike is a 1D6. If unit is entering via non-teleporting means, they may charge on the turn they come in. HOWEVER the charge roll may be only 1D6.

Mind you, I am no BA player. My friend is and I just like to mull over the idea as to help him enjoy his favourite chapter of the universe of 40k.

I don't propose adding a additional chapter tactic to my list as that would be more along the lines of making up new rules which was not my intent.....


...but I do agree that the BA having just furious charge is a pretty poor chapter trait. I think the only scatter D6 is a good starting point but being allowed to assault out of it is too much, perhaps just give them the +1 init when charging as well.

On discussing this list with a friend they pointed out that id missed the fact that vanilla characters on bikes make bike units troops. I don't find bikes very flavourful for BA, what do people TH? ink of the following instead?

If your army includes an HQ model (or Dante) with jump pack then Assault squads chosen as part of the same detachment are troop choices.

Most of those things wouldn't improve them because they aren't competitive units in the current meta that you are buffing. Not sure how big of an impact it would have

Yes I know that even with all these changes I am just bringing a load of standard of units up to par and the BA dex still lacks many of the really powerful units and formations that the newer (by a few months) books have.

The main reason for this is just to make it feel a little less like you're shooting yourself in the foot when playing the army you like