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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655877.page

Thanks!

Hey everyone,
the last few weeks have been very lets say very touchy. In the video I hope to bring some peace back to the people

I think you're underestimating the slow death of games that are unsupported. Yes, you can play 8th, but the player pool will decrease until there's only a few hard core collectors left. The game they loved is dead and replaced by something they don't like at all.

"GW doesn't care about you" is one of the things you've said that I agree with.

But don't worry. The anger will die down as people leave the hobby or move on to other games.

It all depends on what the big tournaments will do. That's how it has always been. As for now, for the EU competitive scene, people right now think about using a "Living rulebook" for 8th or switching to 8th. AoS, in its current state, is unplayable on a competitive level and it will require a whole lot of work to make it even nigh-playable. At this point, you're looking at a few months of work to get a game working on a basic level and you have to ask yourself what's more feasible - spending this much work on it or using an already established, different system and having actual tournaments in the meantime.

I'd love to get some input from US competitive TO / players who are part of rules discussions and shed some light on what the US players think about doing. I'm very interested, especially because WHFB is very popular in EU but less so in the US.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I think you're underestimating the slow death of games that are unsupported. Yes, you can play 8th, but the player pool will decrease until there's only a few hard core collectors left. The game they loved is dead and replaced by something they don't like at all.

You might be surprised. I'm not saying that this is typical. I don't know if it is or isn't, but Epic in my area has absolutely exploded since GW stopped official support. We had zero players two or three years ago. Now we have about 16. It's also still very much alive and well on the internet, and good proxies are available from other manufacturers all over the place. Epic tournaments take place all over the world often. The rules are in the able hands of the fans now (indeed, I headed up the Blood Angel list development for a time). We all really enjoy the stability that materialized in the absence of constant GW rules churn.

Again, not sure how typical this is, but if the player base is dedicated enough, a "dead" game can survive and even thrive.

Yeah, I seriously doubt Fantasy is going to die.

The big tournaments will keep playing 8th edition, using revised FAQs and their own Errata.

I feel for long time collectors. Feels like a big F-U. Even if it was going to be 10 years until the warhammer update - players will wait. Why kill it totally?

Can I at least be mildly annoyed?

 toasteroven wrote:
Can I at least be mildly annoyed?

oh yes, I'm not gonna stop being salty for a long time.

In general, my meta has been pretty positive about AoS. It's funny to me, as in my area, there have been a few people that went "RAGE OF SIGMAR!". I was kinda in that category until I actually played a game. And you know what? I actually had fun for the first time in a long time in playing Warhammer.

Since then, I've enjoyed myself quite a bit. I haven't played one of those WAAC Clowns yet.

No doubt. It is a "fun" ruleset. As in its something you can play while drinking yourself under the table. But thats all its good for. And its not what Warhammer Fantasy, or indeed any table top wargame worthy of the name, should be.

Its a crappy game for when you are just messing around with your friends, and its fine for that. Like Twister, Beer Pong, or Cards Against Humanity. Its not a table top wargame, which demands at least the ability to play seriously.

Rage of Sigmar. Sounds like a great name for a Campaign.

Or maybe a chapter of Sigmarines.

You guys are legends. Why would you be annoyed though?

 Grey Templar wrote:
No doubt. It is a "fun" ruleset. As in its something you can play while drinking yourself under the table. But thats all its good for. And its not what Warhammer Fantasy, or indeed any table top wargame worthy of the name, should be.

Its a crappy game for when you are just messing around with your friends, and its fine for that. Like Twister, Beer Pong, or Cards Against Humanity. Its not a table top wargame, which demands at least the ability to play seriously.

There is a few players like this at my FLGS who are also very vocal. Ironically, not one of them have won a single game of AoS in the past 3 weeks. It makes the rest of us chuckle.

 WillyGames wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
No doubt. It is a "fun" ruleset. As in its something you can play while drinking yourself under the table. But thats all its good for. And its not what Warhammer Fantasy, or indeed any table top wargame worthy of the name, should be.

Its a crappy game for when you are just messing around with your friends, and its fine for that. Like Twister, Beer Pong, or Cards Against Humanity. Its not a table top wargame, which demands at least the ability to play seriously.

There is a few players like this at my FLGS who are also very vocal. Ironically, not one of them have won a single game of AoS in the past 3 weeks. It makes the rest of us chuckle.

I wouldn't sully myself to actually play this "game" unless I was halfway through a liter of Vodka. Reading the various special rules was enough make every one of our players have an aneurism. So we just all agreed to keep playing 8th edition or Kings of War. I probably couldn't get a game of AoS even if I wanted to play.

Its a bad game, I tried one game and It was pile in the middle and roll 4 & 3. No tatics what so ever... I rather wear Rosie O'donnells panties like a ski mask then ever play AoS again. I don't think a bottle of booze would help make the game any better.

lol you can't make this stuff up

What the actual hell? Rosie O...you'd WHAT now?

Enjoy the latest in Games Workshop's line of "specialty" games, folks. The difference between this one and Mordheim, Necromunda, Blood Bowl et al is that this one isn't actually a good game.

Age of Sigmar is terrible. I wouldn't say that I'm "raging" about it or anything, it's just that when it comes to looking for a miniature wargame that suits what I want, Age of Sigmar meets absolutely none of it. From a functional perspective, spending 10 minutes inventing a new miniature wargame with my mates before plonking figures down actually would meet my wargaming wants a lot better than Age of Sigmar. It's that bad.

The "rage" isn't going to stop any time soon because GW killed WHFB in order to release AoS. If they'd just released AoS by itself and kept WHFB going, or if they'd killed WHFB a few years ago and now were just bringing out AoS, there'd probably be far less complaining about it.

AoS is a bad game with decent miniatures (assuming you like the aesthetic, I personally don't care for the sigmarines). There's a bunch of bad games out there that I couldn't give a toss about, it's just this one happens to be the one that replaced a game I did care about.

As for the rage stopping? I wouldn't count on it, not unless all the old WHFB fans quit wargaming completely. Even if they move to other games they'll still be around and still be bitter towards GW.

Also I haven't watched your video. If you want people to know your opinion you should also transcribe it or summarise it in text so people can glance over it easily, there's too many opinions out there for me to want to spend 15 minutes watching a video of one person's opinion. No personal offence intended, maybe your video is awesome, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people make videos of things better expressed through the written word.

 spudkins wrote:
You guys are legends. Why would you be annoyed though?

Because I don't like the direction they've taken the game in! And I especially don't care for the direction the backstory seems to be taken. Therefore, I am annoyed, or perhaps irritated. It is a simple thing.

I think what we're seeing is not rage so much as smugness and schadenfreude. People have been predicting the death of GW's games for decades and finally just for once the doomsayers are right. They really killed FB and replaced it with a trifle, an insubstantial little board game. The cruel, cynical heart of the neckbeard has found validation in GW's antics, and maybe there is some degree of comfort in knowing that they will always make the worst decision possible at every turn.

 toasteroven wrote:

 spudkins wrote:
You guys are legends. Why would you be annoyed though?

Because I don't like the direction they've taken the game in! And I especially don't care for the direction the backstory seems to be taken. Therefore, I am annoyed, or perhaps irritated. It is a simple thing.

Oh I believe its a simple thing. The ragers at my FLGS are pretty simple too.

I realize that calling people you disagree with stupid is a fine and time honored tradition on the internet, but I don't think it's really helping your case here.

And so the rage continued throughout the realms and Sigmar wept.

The Rage is continuing here too NOOOOOOO, what have I released.
Nah but seriously, like in the video you guys can still play 8th.
Not played a single yet but overall for £60 I think the boxsetjust for the models alone is worth it.
Peace

 Chute82 wrote:
Its a bad game, I tried one game and It was pile in the middle and roll 4 & 3. No tatics what so ever... I'd rather wear Rosie O'donnells panties like a ski mask then ever play AoS again. I don't think a bottle of booze would help make the game any better.

I tried chess this one time and it was terrible, just pushing those little ones up the tables while that stupid queen went around slaughtering everything... No tactics whatsoever

No, I'm not saying AoS is as good a game as chess. But it does have subtleties and strategy, and as with most strategy games, they aren't necessarily obvious to begin with.

 spudkins wrote:
The Rage is continuing here too NOOOOOOO, what have I released.
Nah but seriously, like in the video you guys can still play 8th.
Not played a single yet but overall for £60 I think the boxsetjust for the models alone is worth it.
Peace

Yea... might wanna play some games following the rules before you defend them. Get your co0llection and fight someone else's. I doubt you will play this game for long after a few weeks (or months depending on how often you play games).

It has to be one of the worst games ever released for the table top (even worse that the biggest company released it).

If you enjoy it that's fine but I can bet you will be changing the rules just to play this game (like Line of Site, army building and measuring from the model to name some of the very few bad rules).

But seriously play this game before trying to defend it... even the people who love this game somehow have to change rules to make it playable.

Yeah play the game before you defend it lol.

I love AoS, warts and all. Like Swastakowey says I like to play with house rules, for me: base to base measuring and LoS having to be to a head, torso, or limb.

But if you want to make an informed channel on a wargame you should be playing before you pass comments.

 Chute82 wrote:
Its a bad game, I tried one game and It was pile in the middle and roll 4 & 3. No tatics what so ever... I rather wear Rosie O'donnells panties like a ski mask then ever play AoS again. I don't think a bottle of booze would help make the game any better.

Isn't that a rule on one of the warscrolls for "legacy" armies?

Can't have any of that silliness for the new hotness now, can we?