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 Grimtuff wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Marlov wrote:
This thread is pretty funny. Been reading it on my phone today, but too hard to post on mobile.

Oh look, another fresh-faced new user who just happened to show up in a thread with Talys. Happens a lot these days...

I have no idea what you could possibly be hinting at there...

You two are utterly pathetic. Talys has given a reasoned and detailed response in here but you choose to flame bait.

Pathetic.

You, on the other hand, never participate in any thread that I've seen, other than to tell other people that you think bad things about them.

That's worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep, just had a quick scan and I reckon fully half your posts are just attacking other posters, and not providing any sort of counter point.

Let's get back to discussing arguments and not people.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Marlov wrote:
This thread is pretty funny. Been reading it on my phone today, but too hard to post on mobile.

Oh look, another fresh-faced new user who just happened to show up in a thread with Talys. Happens a lot these days...

If you're implying that I support Talys, you couldn't be more wrong, because I disagree with almost everything he says. Still, he writes interesting stuff that's worth reading, even though I think he's wrong. So does Azrael13, by the way, who posts some thoughtful things from the opposing point of view. Not that I agree with him completely either, but his viewpoint is pretty similar to mine.

You on the other hand post nothing of value. Most of the time not even an your opinion FFS. By the way you showing up on Talys threads too.

Intelligence isn't an all or nothing attribute. Most people are not brilliant or stupid and most companies aren't either. GW like any other company falls somewhere in between. Also, smart people and smart companies do dumb things, too. But must be at least a little bit intelligent because they make money and stay in business. They must be at least a little unintelligent because they are pissing off a large number of people who could buy their stuff and spend money with them by having gak rules.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Let's get back to discussing arguments and not people.

Please >.<

Back to the topic: if I had to nail it to two things that GW falls short on that cause unhappy customers to characterize them as "unintelligent", that would be:

1. High price for models (or the perception thereof)
2. Poor rules for competitive play

Who would be satisfied if GW fixed *one* of those? In other words, if GW's model prices were around the same price as PP/Wyrd/CB Infinity per model, and it had good competitive rules; OR GW had cheaper prices than PP/Wyrd/CB, but had poor competitive rules?

I think #2 might be fixable; while I think GW might slightly lower the price of models or create attractive bundles, 40k won't ever be cheap enough to be "cheap" to the people for whom price is the main issue -- if there is a fix for #1, it will be through a reduction in the number of models and free rules, a la AoS (or some future 30k GW game), rather than in 40k.

With regards to #1, what do you think the ideal price is, for the models alone, for a miniature-based game that where "average" players will have 30, 50 , 100, and 200 model collections?

Either is a good fix, because it fixes the value of the product. I'm more willing to accept a low quality game if the price matches that quality, and vice versa.

Likewise, I don't necessarily need GW to lower prices, but having box sets with more value or including more options in each box (4x of each heavy weapon in a dev box for example, not things like an extra helmet or slightly different squatting pose legs). As a Guard player, a box set of 3 tanks along the line of 'buy two, get one half off' would be welcome. Same thing for a platoon box (say a command squad plus 3 infantry squads [again with all weapon options included] where the command squad is more or less free).

*Edit* Oh, and if GW were a more pleasant company in that they interacted with the community and did things all other miniature companies do, I'd be more inclined to pay a little more to support a company that supports me. I'm willing to pay a premium for my Guard army at a small boutique company because I can interact with the people behind the models and that they actively seek feedback and release news, updates, and previews of upcoming projects.

*Second Edit* Oh, and yeah, what Burning said below. The rules aren't good for anything really. They could stand some work to benefit even the most casual player (dare I say, especially for the casual players).

 Talys wrote:

2. Poor rules

Fixed that part for ya!

Every customer, including you, benefits form a well written, internally balanced, tight, concise rule-set.

It is only a side effect that such a rule set benefits competitive play.

It seems we've reached the point where people are more interested in insulting those with different viewpoints instead of addressing the actual discussion... so I think we're done here.