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Hey folks,

So I posted a list for a Blood Axe army I'm building in the List forum, and the backbone of it was intended to be the aforementioned Snikrot's Red Skull Kommando Formation.

I'm starting to question my thesis here, so I'm curious as to whether anyone out there has any experience with them.

O.G plan was to roll on with a close to maxed out formation - 4 squads, 12 Kommandos each, Nob + PK. But some fears got into me:

Namely - there's no way to attach Meks/ICs to accept challenges, will the PKs even get to swing? How big of a problem are challenges? Is the "always bring a power klaw" rule still a thing (I'm returning to the game after last playing 3rd ed)

Half my army being tied up in the formation means there's precious few units on the board at the outset (this also has to do with my theme as well, namely: sneaky gits.) This led to me fearing getting tabled, which would be possible turn 1 and almost guaranteed if they didn't show turn 2.

So! How to use Snikrot and Co? I figure there's a couple options:

- Kitted as I did as trukk boy sized mobs with a close combat specialization as the centrepiece of the army (shooting when they appear means they lose their ability to re-roll cover saves, so bringing along rokkits and burnas seems counter productive)

- Used with perhaps only one maxed unit (Snikrots) and the other three as MSUs to harass and distract.

- Used totally as MSU for linebreaker and taking potshots.

As for showing up on time my approach was to use da finkin' cap and roll on the strategic table rather than an ADL for thematic reasons.

Anyone seen or actually deployed these fellas?

Cheerio.

Ah one of the first of Ghazzy's Lootenants that joined him from Urk and has been part of both Armageddon Wars. I originally would have considered him a Blood Axe since they favour Kommados. Despite Goffs not being ones whom would shy from the open front lines and wouldn't seem to favour Kommados I am pretty sure Snikrot and his crew are Goffs. The specified Orks klans Ghazzy united on Urk before the first Armageddon War was Deathskulls, Goffa, Bad Moons and Snakebites. Ghazzy's supplement....no wait nevermind it says Ghazzy's Goffs appreciate these Kommandos because of their fighting skills. I guess the Blood Axes were an unspecified klan on Urk that joined Ghazzy. Doesn't matter onto the gaming stuff.

This formation forces you to put the whole thing behind in reserves but has the neat ability to allow Snikrot's Ambush and Shrouded abilities to work with the other Kommando Units he's not attached to and the whole formation appears on whichever side of the table you feel like (Outflank but even better). I've noticed it doesn't say the same restriction as Infiltration that prevents units being deployed within a certain range but I don't think units can charge the turn they come out of reserves so be careful. A single unit of Kommandos with the appropriate weapons can really mess with your opponant's target priorties (A couple of Rokkits and a PK behind an enemy vehicle usually saves your other units down the field from a turn of shooting.) This formation gives you enough units doing this Ambush trick that you can have a unit equipped to deal with shooty infantry nearby while another is equipped to deal with the vehicle. Deploy appropriately and you have enough Kommandos to not only mess with the enemies target priorities but also do some real damage.
Next I see you want to consider making Snikrot the Warboss. I'm not so sure that's a good idea. Kommandos coming out from any side of the table have a way of causing the opponant to try and kill them as fast as possible. Snikrot might not have a long life on the table. If you still want him as your Warboss then I'd like to say that there is no reason to try get the infiltration trick. The formation will prevent him from doing it and they will all still have to use his Ambush rules which in my opinion is better then infiltration. You can't give him Finkin Kap because his entry doesn't say he can pick relics and he already has his own gifts from Gork and Mork. Better off to roll for something that might get him tougher or models near him tougher. But another reason to consider an HQ selections as your Warlord instead of Snikrot is that he's already going to come into the game with a bunch of cool abilities and relics that will help his squad play their roll. Make a Warboss and roll for abilities for him so he can get another unit buffed and better at it's roll.
Hopefully this steers you in the right direction.

Yes, you have an issue with challenges. However:

You have a Nob with 2 wounds. A marine sergeant with a power sword or a chainsword will probably only do one wound (4 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound), then promptly get slaughtered. Yes, the nob is wounded but you should see the other guy.

Secondly, as Da Redskull Kommandos are outflanking and coming in behind the enemy, you should be the one deciding who they have to fight, so a power klaw armed nob should be more than good enough.

You should be looking at them taking on the rear armour of tanks, devastator squads, command sections and similar - or, if he pulls his assault units to the back of his line, then smile and accept this knowing that the bikes, trukk boyz and stormboyz coming the other way don't have to face them and can get stuck into his main units...

I'd take burnas as they're good for overwatch or the turn you charge. As you note, don't fire the turn you come on - your abilities are too good.

Final note; take four squads but only kit out three of them. I'd suggest three squads of ten with burnas and power klaws and one of fifteen with nothing but a nob to keep order. Send the big mob onto the board first in a long line abreast and move the other boyz in behind it.

If they want to shoot at the mobz that matter, they're firing through the front line mob (5+ cover save) at a unit with shrouded (3+ cover save) benefitting from Snikrot's rules (3+ rerollable cover save!). Of course, the enemy can try and blow the skirmish screen out of the way first, but even a 5+ rerollable cover save is no pushover. Plus, the skirmish screen stops counter-assault units charging you as you come onto the board, which means your kommandos get their lovely charge bonuses.

I have plans of running this formation as i recently obtained Snikrot.

2*15 with pk bp
2*5 without anything whatsoever or with bigshootas/rokits

The rest of the army is gona be a bunch of shootaboyz with dls megaboss in a bunker with escape hatch and comms relay(!), a squad of 30 choppaboyz with Grotsnik or painboss, truckboyz, a bunch of koptas, ranged support - big gunz, lootas and probably a blitza bomber.

2000 pts total. I'm afraid i'll have to get rid of a blitza bomber + something for 1850.

All i know is that if you're running so much stuff in reserves, you must have reserve manipulations. Or else, if you fail a few 3+, you loose the game.

I don't really think Snikrot himself has too much an issue with challenges. He has 5 attacks at initiative (6 on the charge) and is slightly better then a Nob. Actually he's a Nob but with Warboss WS, Str and Atks. But even then you can still put Nobs in the units including the one he's in. He just can't be in a unit that has another IC when deploying from reserves.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Actually he's a Nob but with Warboss WS, Str and Atks.

and LD

Oh cool you are right. Snikrot has +1 to his Ldr stat. That actually helps. If only all our boss nobs had that. Weird how the fluff says Nobz is short for Nobles and that Nobz are leaders amongst the Orks yet have the same Ldr stats as a normal Ork. But stats aren't models and Nobs come in the same boxes as the normal Ork boyz so GW doesn't need to care much about them.

Namely - there's no way to attach Meks/ICs to accept challenges, will the PKs even get to swing? How big of a problem are challenges? Is the "always bring a power klaw" rule still a thing (I'm returning to the game after last playing 3rd ed)

Are you new to Orks? I would suggest running a more standard army before you commit to this.

The challenge mechanic rapes the gak out of Orks mate.

i would suggest big choppas on the nobs, most likely you are hitting vehicles or dedicated ranged units. big chopaas will still hurt vehicles and chop up anything that isnt dedicated melee (powerklaws might be overkill and take up alot of points).

when it comes to reserves i either dont do it at all or put as much into it as possible. i would suggest getting a warlord with the thinkin kap and doing both warlord traits on the strategic table just to increase chances of getting the best ones for reserves, and "also" get an adl with comms relay and a cheep unit that can hold it for a turn. after making sure your reserves will always come in turn 2 you then fill your reserves with multiple units as compared to one giant deffstar unit. try dakka jets for good anti anything, warbuggies or defkoptas for surprise dakka, small squads of stormboyz just to litter the board with stupid fast boyz. that's a lot of the "fast attack" slot but with orks its easy to unlock 2 cads and a formation. its close to a null deployment, but not many people expect orks to do that, at the very least it will freak out your opponent "i must win turn 1 or those orks hiding in the rocks will destroy us turn 2!"

"half-glimpsed shadows? orks wearing camouflage? do you take us for imbeciles? orks are barbaric and entirely single-minded. army dogma, which has served us well for ten thousand years, teaches us this. greenskins come on in a great horde, they do not slink and sneak in the shade.
guards! take the prisoner to the holding cells to await execution for cowardice and incompetence."

Thanks for all the replies!

My current thinking is to go with one unit (containing Snikrot) maxed with the 15 boys, nob and pk The other 3 roll on with 5 each and special weapons. Shoot, and act as a screen.

Your sentiments geargutz are exactly what I'm hoping to achieve all in the quest to be a sneaky git with this build.

I do have experience with Orks, just long ago, and it seems that even the experienced guys are having a tough time these days. So I want a list with a lot of fun and surprises.

As for reserves I was thinking of perhaps a imperial bunker with the comms relay instead of ADL. And I'd deploy it in the far back corner of the board with a unit of grots. I rarely see bunkers used instead of ADLS, - does this suggest they're easily popped death traps?

i would suggest adl since its cheaper and then put grots behind that. the thing about grots is that behind a defense line they are out of line of sight (so short). the only thing they have to worry about is barage (in that case then do a small mekgun unit behind the adl, since they are so cheap and t7 3up save makes them the most ardest thing in our codex (maybe ad a painboy for leadership and t7 fnp)(lobbas so they can harass the enemy). the only problem with a bunker i think is that its expensive and has an armour value (it can be popped while a adl cant be).

i tried the komando formation once. i did min squads of komandos with nobs w/ big choppas all combined into a single squad with snikrot. they came in when they were needed and absolutely destroyed a tank command squad thingy after surviving his dakka (rerollable shrouded save for not shooting ftw and deftly avoiding tankshock). the only guns i would give komandoes are burnas so that they can do overwatch if they get charged after going shrouded.

I would consider using a big choppa in the smaller units. It is cheap and can help you pop tanks, but it won't cause an explode and wipe out your little unit. Burnas are definitely a great option, because you can use them as extra power weapons when you assault.

As Independent Characters can't join Kommandos when they Ambush, you can include a sacrificial Mek for Challenges as he is just a Character. Perhaps add a Kombi-Skorcha or even a Killsaw, but that is a lot to invest in a T4 model with a 6+ Armour save.

Thanks for the thought - but Meks can only join units in their detachment unfortunately.

I think I'm really enjoying the idea of 1 or 2 large units, supported by two min units with Burnas.

Thanks for the ideas guys, now I should get back to building these dudes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the thought - but Meks can only join units in their detachment unfortunately.

I think I'm really enjoying the idea of 1 or 2 large units, supported by two min units with Burnas.

Thanks for the ideas guys, now I should get back to building these dudes.

I think the best way to run the Red Skull Kommandos is to take the 4 squads at minimal size and each having a Nob (3 with PKs, 1 with nothing to soak challenges), have the entire squad combine into 1 kommando unit. They enter from any size they want and can move 6" and then run d6 into cover. Having shrouded with rerolling cover they can get rerolling 2+ in ruins and generally be set to charge next turn. If you want to split the unit up then take it as 4 units but deploy them in pairs so they can double charge units and divide their attacks (and get 2 nobz with PKs into the fight).

Personally I think the burnas are over priced for the unit as its much cheaper to just take burna boyz (same price to take 5 burna boyz as it is to take 5 kommandos with 2 burnas in the unit). Throw cheap burna boyz units in a trukk and flat out turn 1 or have them in reserves to then while the rest of your boyz are distracting and locking down the enemy.

Do they join into one big mob when they come in like the Stormboyz?

No. But they all gain the benefits of Snikrots Ambush and Shrouded as though they were, they also all have to deploy together but after they can split off to do their things. Rockit users can go after vehicles, Bigg shoota users can go after infantry, each can use an escort from burna using kommandos to deliver a wicked overwatch if the enemy has melee units in the back field.

I love this formation. I like to run 4 mobs of 15 with jobs, pks, and bosspoles. Then I fly up the board from the other side with trukks and such. It normally gives a good match even if I lose. The worst they didn't come in until fourth turn but normally they come in on the second. I have to resist taking this formation everywhere because even if they know its coming the look on their face when 60 boys sneak up is hilarious. Also if you WAAAAGH the turn after they come in with the run and charge you should be able to reach just about anywhere you want. That's my input anyway. Ir isn't the best but it is certainly fun.

Woops I completely misread that as being able to join together similar to stromboyz or green tide (I guess I got the character joining the unit and them entering together confused). Still MSU commandos isn't a bad way to run them.

Echoing what above posters have said;

1x 15 with Nob -BP (no PK - as this is your front screen unit designed to prevent charges and give a 5+ which becomes a 3+ to units behind).

3x (whatever sized units you like) - Nob, BP, PK and snikrot in one. Add weapons to flavour.

Personally I think that the 3 units are damn effective at 5-9 models. Stick in 2x burna's and you have 3 units that are cheap, can charge turn 2 and will have plenty of offensive power with a low cost.

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Heck! For true mayhem and minimal cost;

1x 15 with Nob, PK, BP and snikrot

3x5 with 1 burna

right there with out the 3 extra PKs your saving 75 points, plus the BP and nob costs; so a total saving of 40 points per unit. Yeh there not untterly terrifying, but they are 5 orks that have a 3+ re-rollable (because your not going to shoot sluggas the turn you arrive - maybe the burna in certain circumstances). They can also move and charge next turn. So for a points cost of about; 250(large unit) + 3x 65(min units) = ~500 points you have 4 units arrive where you want that are really going to draw attention.

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Other points of note;

I often run 1-3 units 5x commandos as elites choice with no upgrades. Stick them on an objective; 50 points unit with a 2+ GTG. If you have points kicking about, stick 1-2 BS's in each unit. Now for 180 points I have 3 units who are likely claiming me VP's while also throwing out some shots each turn.

The biggest tactical advantage this formation has is its effect on castle armies. The turn you come in your enemy has to consider moving heavy weapons away or shooting at a good cover save. The big unit of kommandos makes your enemy consider leaving an assault unit in the backfield. A unit that may have been used to tarpit your advancing orkz. He will have to consider that even if your screening units got to anything too light and shooty that they could be tied up for several turns in assault. Keep the points for this formation light. The more you spend the easier it is for your opponent to clearly see that commiting everything to wiping your kommandos is a sound strategy. You want him to underestimate or over commit.

Then hopefully whatever you wanted in assault by turn three on the other side of the battle made it.

exactly, Ris hit it right on the head.

With Orks if you paint a huge target on the unit then the opponent generally knows exactly what to do. but by keeping the points cost down while still performing the role (threatening backfield units who don't want to be tied up or in combat), then you get the most use out of them.

I have yet to try it, so perhaps try a couple variations.

Thanks Ris and Solar Shock. If nothing else I'm pumped to try this.

FWIW I'm planning on running this out of the gate with the air armada, 3 grot squads, and 3 solo koptas. One of the grot squads hangs out in a "grotpost" turn 1. Then, queue up ride of the valkyries and make silly shooting noises.

If that army doesn't pan out well, I've got some other blood axe themes I can't wait to try. But yeah, in my version they're more of an anvil than a distraction. Ideally pushing some of the enemy mid board where I can bomb them turn 2.

Meanwhile grots and koptas run around claiming objectives. Seems like fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Ir it really isn't the best but it sure is fun" lol. That's exactly what I'm hoping for with this!

Ya if you want them to push the enemy away you may want to run it larger. Max size with nobz and powerklaws with bosspoles it is only 820 points I think. So in an 1850 game you still have about 1000 points to play with and fly up the other side of the board with. Or sit back and bombard from. That sounds like a fun plan though.

Don't forget that if you shoot the turn you arrive, you loose the reroll to cover save. It might affect your weapon choice.