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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why punish him in school? Isn't that God's responsibility?
If I read this correctly, the other kids were upset at what the boy said? Maybe the teacher did it thinking to protect the other students or something like that?
In any case, religion has a place in school, but so does non-religiousness. The teacher should apologise to the kid (in front of the classroom) and maybe the kids should have the situation explained to them. Punishing the teacher for something this minor seems very odd. I mean, why is this even news?

Because a teacher should under no circumstance punish a 7-year old for over 3 days. Regardless of circumstances, this is not something that the teacher can do without involving parents.

Agreed. But I still don't get why this is made such a big deal of. My teacher once had me write an entire essay after I drew a line on my neigbour's piece of paper. That was far out of proportion, but it did not make the internet. Maybe I should have started a lawsuit too?

I wonder if everyone making a big deal out of this will effect the child more than if the parents simply explained it to the kid and moved on. This will more than definitely be stuck in the childs mind for a long time now.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Owning several fedoras is not a reason for somebody to be made fun of.

No, but unnecessary hatred is a great reason. What's that called? Oh yea... Bigotry.

I generally do not allow my emotions to take command, however in this case I was being a bit hateful.

I do not like religion in schools because it irritates me to see people bully people due to their sexuality or personal beliefs and prevents teachers from teaching certain elements of health and biology. I posted an example somewhere of what happened the last time I talked about evolution in a school, and this caused people to dislike me even more.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Owning several fedoras is not a reason for somebody to be made fun of.

No, but unnecessary hatred is a great reason. What's that called? Oh yea... Bigotry.

I generally do not allow my emotions to take command, however in this case I was being a bit hateful.

I do not like religion in schools because it irritates me to see people bully people due to their sexuality or personal beliefs and prevents teachers from teaching certain elements of health and biology. I posted an example somewhere of what happened the last time I talked about evolution in a school, and this caused people to dislike me even more.

So, let me get this straight. You disrespect others and their way of life because you feel that they do not respect others and their way of life? Good job...

Believes myth should be not taught as fact =/= Disrespect.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Owning several fedoras is not a reason for somebody to be made fun of.

No, but unnecessary hatred is a great reason. What's that called? Oh yea... Bigotry.

I generally do not allow my emotions to take command, however in this case I was being a bit hateful.

I do not like religion in schools because it irritates me to see people bully people due to their sexuality or personal beliefs and prevents teachers from teaching certain elements of health and biology. I posted an example somewhere of what happened the last time I talked about evolution in a school, and this caused people to dislike me even more.

Yep and in life people will continue to do it. I was made fun of by an atheist for my parents religion (as said in my first comment). It doesn't matter the religion, race or gender or anything. People piss each other off, and you blaming religion like it's the source of wrong in this world is not helping anything. I don't know how old you are, but you will meet people every day without knowing their religion etc, but you will likely think of most people you meet as good normal people. Why? Because people are not part of hive mind groups. I mean, rappers kill each other over lyrics or something man. People always find reasons to be a pain in the but, and "eliminating religion in school" does nothing at all to change that.

I just made fun of you for a hat. A hat (which, as we all know, is stupid. Why did I do it? Well simply put hatred fuels hatred and turns normal people into dummies). I didn't even know you owned one. Like the above, people will always find a reason to make fun of someone etc. The trick is not to use huge paint brushes when doing it.

Sprouting out you think they are stupid for believing in, how did you put it... "invisible sky man", does nothing to help the situation. It simply gets a ruse out of someone and the cycle of hatred continues.

In every single group of people, there are nutters. Every single person is dumb in one way or another. I am dumb, you are dumb, Frazzled is dumb, my mother is dumb and the list goes on (a bit of sarcasm don't worry). Look at sport, we have people like the armstrong guy who simply took his carrier too far with enhancing drugs etc. TFG is war gaming. Warrior Christians and warrior atheists. The list goes on.

You could have mentioned you like McDonald's and got hate for it. Ultimately shouting out words like "mythical sky men etc" when talking about someones largely harmless life (with nutter exceptions) is just going to get a silly response in return. You are helping fuel the circle of hatred.

Anyway,

Reminds me of:

Truly, he is a man of many fedoras.

Comparing the Bible to a comic book just shows the depths of his bias/ignorance.

I wonder what was actually said between the children that upset them so. Maybe the teacher sought to calm the others who were upset more than trying to punish the boy. From insulting things I've seen adult atheists say I'd be curious to see what a child who believed in no higher power would say.

 Verviedi wrote:
Believes myth should be not taught as fact =/= Disrespect.

Thats not actually what you originally posted, but I am more than happy if we move back to the original topic now.
ON the OT, was their a judgement and amount? I couldn't tell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I wonder what was actually said between the children that upset them so. Maybe the teacher sought to calm the others who were upset more than trying to punish the boy. From insulting things I've seen adult atheists say I'd be curious to see what a child who believed in no higher power would say.

I was wondering if the kid was trying to be a bully and this is a 3rd party skewed report. Even assuming that however, they'd get fun run suspension for that period only I would think.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Truly, he is a man of many fedoras.

Comparing the Bible to a comic book just shows the depths of his bias/ignorance.

I wonder what was actually said between the children that upset them so. Maybe the teacher sought to calm the others who were upset more than trying to punish the boy. From insulting things I've seen adult atheists say I'd be curious to see what a child who believed in no higher power would say.

Bang on. My best friend went through an Angry Atheist phase and told me (someone from a religious family) that all religious people need to die for the world to be a better place. I was pretty hurt for a bit, but ultimately, like most people he grew up. Unfortunately not all grow out of it.

I wonder what the full story is.

Indeed its why i said move on :/

Anyway hope this kid can shrug it off otherwise its gona be an awkward child hood :/

 Frazzled wrote:


I was wondering if the kid was trying to be a bully and this is a 3rd party skewed report. Even assuming that however, they'd get fun run suspension for that period only I would think.

Considering most of the "article" is quoting the Complaint from the suing family I'd say it's guaranteed there's more to the story.

More will come out in court, that is for sure.

I dislike religion in school because

1. They should be approached entirely scientifically (like your biology teacher describes an ant), but they are sometimes assumed to be true instead of leaving that judgment to the student.

2. Religions are not given equal coverage, or even proportional to their spread/popularity.

It's simply too biased. Fix that and it's fine.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I dislike religion in school because

1. They should be approached entirely scientifically (like your biology teacher describes an ant), but they are sometimes assumed to be true instead of leaving that judgment to the student.

2. Religions are not given equal coverage, or even proportional to their spread/popularity.

It's simply too biased. Fix that and it's fine.

English is the language of my country and so is Māori, we are educated on both English and standard Māori (If I knew how, I could hand in an essay in Māori and pass etc). However I am not told how to speak Malaysian or Spanish etc because those subjects are not relevant to my country. It is the same as religion. I am more versed in christian teachings than I am in Muslim ones, because my nation is Christian. We are also educated on Maori myths, because it is a part of our past. To give all religion equal coverage is not a good idea, just like giving languages equal coverage is not a good idea. It makes sense to teach the kids the religion of their nation and they have the option as they get older to move on to another religion in more specialized classes, just like language.

How religion is presented is up to personal taste, personally in my country there isn't a problem with it in the education system. If there is, it's because of individuals not the system.

The problem is, the United States is a secular nation with a plurality of religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

 jasper76 wrote:
The problem is, America is a secular nation with pluralistic religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation? See it's like saying French should have a place in school despite the vast majority speaking English. You guys have the flag and must sing to it (is it every morning?) in a school yet that too assumes most people are American in your country (correct). Just like English being in school is on the basis that the vast majority is English.

I don't see a real problem here.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The problem is, America is a secular nation with pluralistic religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation? See it's like saying French should have a place in school despite the vast majority speaking English. You guys have the flag and must sing to it (is it every morning?) in a school yet that too assumes most people are American in your country (correct). Just like English being in school is on the basis that the vast majority is English.

I don't see a real problem here.

Because separation of church and state is one of the foundations of the USA. Schools are public institutions and therefore must be free from favouring one religion over another.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation?

Because our nation has freedom of religion, and sending your children to public school where the state imposes an alternate religion on your child is a violation of the guardians freedom of relligion.

You have to remember, some people find Christianity offensive and immoral; the kind of thing they would precisiely not want their children to participate in.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Schools are public institutions

Unless they are not.

Private and home schooling does exist.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The problem is, America is a secular nation with pluralistic religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation? See it's like saying French should have a place in school despite the vast majority speaking English. You guys have the flag and must sing to it (is it every morning?) in a school yet that too assumes most people are American in your country (correct). Just like English being in school is on the basis that the vast majority is English.

I don't see a real problem here.

Because separation of church and state is one of the foundations of the USA. Schools are public institutions and therefore must be free from favouring one religion over another.

Then why limit it to religion? Shouldn't then all theories be considered? All styles of writing? All forms of Language? What about the history of every nation? Where does the equal coverage of all things end? It is not favouring, it simply makes sense to teach Christianity in a nation where the majority are Christian.

If most people are Christian, then they should be catered to a degree, given their proportion of the population. Just like English or even history etc. You simply cannot pretend they don't exist to make you feel better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation?

Because our nation has freedom of religion, and sending your children to public school where the state imposes an alternate religion on your child is a violation of the guardians freedom of relligion.

You have to remember, some people find Christianity offensive and immoral; the kind of thing they would precisiely not want their children to participate in.

How can a school "impose" a religion onto a child?

Some people find Abortion immoral, or homosexuality etc. Should their views be catered for as well (I know your answer, don't worry). What you are asking for here is for the system to cater to your own beliefs over others. Which is kind of unfair to the majority who happen to be christian.

I severely doubt schools in the USA enforce religion on anyone, but it would make absolute sense to have the religion of the majority told over other religious beliefs.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The problem is, America is a secular nation with pluralistic religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation? See it's like saying French should have a place in school despite the vast majority speaking English. You guys have the flag and must sing to it (is it every morning?) in a school yet that too assumes most people are American in your country (correct). Just like English being in school is on the basis that the vast majority is English.

I don't see a real problem here.

Because separation of church and state is one of the foundations of the USA. Schools are public institutions and therefore must be free from favouring one religion over another.

Then why limit it to religion? Shouldn't then all theories be considered? All styles of writing? All forms of Language? What about the history of every nation? Where does the equal coverage of all things end? It is not favouring, it simply makes sense to teach Christianity in a nation where the majority are Christian.

If most people are Christian, then they should be catered to a degree, given their proportion of the population. Just like English or even history etc. You simply cannot pretend they don't exist to make you feel better.

Ah yes I forgot the missing portion of constitution that separated writing and history from state

 Ustrello wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The problem is, America is a secular nation with pluralistic religious backgrounds. Religious history is fine in schools, but any material that promotes a particular religion really has no place in our school public school system. And fortunately for religious minorities such as atheists, it is also unconstitutional.

Why does it not have a place if it is the majority of the nation? See it's like saying French should have a place in school despite the vast majority speaking English. You guys have the flag and must sing to it (is it every morning?) in a school yet that too assumes most people are American in your country (correct). Just like English being in school is on the basis that the vast majority is English.

I don't see a real problem here.

Because separation of church and state is one of the foundations of the USA. Schools are public institutions and therefore must be free from favouring one religion over another.

Then why limit it to religion? Shouldn't then all theories be considered? All styles of writing? All forms of Language? What about the history of every nation? Where does the equal coverage of all things end? It is not favouring, it simply makes sense to teach Christianity in a nation where the majority are Christian.

If most people are Christian, then they should be catered to a degree, given their proportion of the population. Just like English or even history etc. You simply cannot pretend they don't exist to make you feel better.

Ah yes I forgot the missing portion of constitution that separated writing and history from state

Yea I don't know your constitution (it does not matter to me one bit what it says). Why does it matter what it says? If it said drink Coke over Pepsi would you site it to every person as a national excuse to drink Coke?

It's like me saying to a black kid "it's the law that you use the dirty bathroom" like it's an excuse. Ultimately your only true reason is that you happen to agree with the constitution on this matter.

So by your logic, I should go around killing people because why does it matter what a law says.

 Ustrello wrote:
So by your logic, I should go around killing people because why does it matter what a law says.

No, not all.

I am saying, just because the law says something it does not mean it is the right thing to do. Which I am sure is basic common knowledge.

 Swastakowey wrote:

How can a school "impose" a religion onto a child?

Not sure if this is a serious question. It should be evident that there exist in the world, almost everywhere in the world including the US, an abundance of schools whose primary goal is to impose religion on a child. You'd have to consult them about their mehtods. In the US, school prayer is a method of religious imposition that has been controversial in the past,

 Swastakowey wrote:
Some people find Abortion immoral, or homosexuality etc. Should their views be catered for as well (I know your answer, don't worry).

I think its generally a good idea for teachers not to preach religion or politics in the public school system of a pluralistic society.

 Swastakowey wrote:
What you are asking for here is for the system to cater to your own beliefs over others. Which is kind of unfair to the majority who happen to be christian.

Not at all. If you're a public school teacher, simply don't preach religion in the public school. Its unconstitutional in the United States. Them's the rules!

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So by your logic, I should go around killing people because why does it matter what a law says.

No, not all.

I am saying, just because the law says something it does not mean it is the right thing to do. Which I am sure is basic common knowledge.

And I am sure its basic common knowledge that the constitution trumps all. That is why it is extremely difficult to change it, to make sure an overwhelming majority of people want it.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

How can a school "impose" a religion onto a child?

Not sure if this is a serious question. It should be evident that there exist in the world, almost everywhere in the world including the US, an abundance of schools whose primary goal is to impose religion on a child. You'd have to consult them about their mehtods. In the US, school prayer is a method of religious imposition that has been controversial in the past,

 Swastakowey wrote:
Some people find Abortion immoral, or homosexuality etc. Should their views be catered for as well (I know your answer, don't worry).

I think its generally a good idea for teachers not to preach religion or politics in the public school system of a pluralistic society.

 Swastakowey wrote:
What you are asking for here is for the system to cater to your own beliefs over others. Which is kind of unfair to the majority who happen to be christian.

Not at all. If you're a public school teacher, simply don't preach religion in the public school. Its unconstitutional in the United States. Them's the rules!

See I thought people are upset at the teaching of religion (something I do not understand) because they don't like religion. But do schools force this prayer on the kids? At school I was allowed to not participate on the monthly singing of the national anthem by merely saying I don't have to, I did not have to participate in Christmas events or Easter events by merely saying no. Surely this is the case in USA (I know Jehovahs witness kids from the USA are allowed to not partake in prayer or national anthem at schools etc). I am very certain this is the case in most schools. Do schools actually enforce religion, or do they cater to the majority with the option not to partake?

As an extension of the government, schools are bound by the same separation of church and state. It isn't a matter of siding with the side of the majority or minority, or of reinforcing beliefs in a particular set of morals or ethical behavior. A government institution cannot A) promote a religion, or B) repress a religion. There's a little more leeway in B (at least, it's much easier to plausibly get away with), but that isn't the case here. The teacher in question undeniably violated part A.

I'm not sure that a lawsuit or termination are in order, but some form of reprimand certainly is (at the very least a public apology in front of her students).

 Ustrello wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So by your logic, I should go around killing people because why does it matter what a law says.

No, not all.

I am saying, just because the law says something it does not mean it is the right thing to do. Which I am sure is basic common knowledge.

And I am sure its basic common knowledge that the constitution trumps all. That is why it is extremely difficult to change it, to make sure an overwhelming majority of people want it.

Well trumps all in your country...

Out of interest, how much was the constitution told to you at school? Is it like your national anthem where you have to sing it a lot etc? Because ultimately how they teach the constitution (as far as I am aware, could be wrong) is exactly what you don't want them to do with religion. Which brings me back to original point, you are only against the religion side of things because you personally dislike religion. If the constitution did not mention it, chances are you would still hate it (like a minority of people here hate it). If the constitution supported it you would try change it. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things what the constitution says except what is on paper enforceable.

@Swas... It was in the 60s that official prayer was decided to be unconstitutional in the US public school system. Before that, there was official Christian school prayer in some public schools, which is a clear state endorsement of a particular religion.

 jasper76 wrote:
@Swas... It was in the 60s that official prayer was decided to be unconstitutional. Before that, there was official Christian school prayer in some public schools, which is a clear state endorsement of a particular religion.

Could you simply choose not to prayer though? I know Jehovahs witnesses could opt out even back then, surely this means anybody can simply chose not to follow it. In that case it is not really enforced, it is simply there for the majority of people being christian yes?