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Hey guys, this is my first topic posted in this forum, as I mainly keep up with 40k stuff. I started playing X-wing probably 3 or so months ago, so I'm still learning everything and all the possible ship combinations, ext. But I had a curious question. Are the larger ships (I.e Aggressor, Firespray, ext) overall better than using smaller ships? Are they considered the be the main competitive option, and way too powerful sometimes? The main reason I ask is, while I love them, every time I play with one, it never dies. The few times I've played against them, I've managed to kill them no problem, but no one can ever kill mine (I've certainly used them more than fought against them). I've also seen some people at my local shop normally running IG88 with Kath Scarlet or Boba Fett, and that's their whole list.

So are they really that good? What is the competitive scene like with them? And are they typically easy to deal with for most people outside of tourneys?


P.S Unlike 40k, I might actually consider competitive X-wing, as it's more balanced. And I'd consider running two larger ships if it was worth it.

Competitive X-wing is great fun.

Big ships CAN be great, if you know how to use 'em.

Some also have major achilles' heels; the wonderful thing about X-wing is there's usually a competitve counter to any other competitive build.

The ships are irrelevant, though a lot of people net-list the current meta (Fat turret + agile little buddy). You have to find the ships and upgrades that play to your style and practice with them, tweek them here and there, and practice some more. Get to know your list and how it works and where its weak (kind of the same rules for 40K, na?). Get experience with your dials and get real good at eyeballing where your ship will be after the movement.
Too many people see the meta wining and jump on the wagon...only to get their butt handed to them by Wedge, Luke, and Biggs.
I took 4 Y-Wings to Regionals and made Top 8. Fly what works for you and leave the meta Players wondering what just happened to their copied "unbeatable" list.

KellyJ wrote:
The ships are irrelevant, though a lot of people net-list the current meta (Fat turret + agile little buddy). You have to find the ships and upgrades that play to your style and practice with them, tweek them here and there, and practice some more. Get to know your list and how it works and where its weak (kind of the same rules for 40K, na?). Get experience with your dials and get real good at eyeballing where your ship will be after the movement.
Too many people see the meta wining and jump on the wagon...only to get their butt handed to them by Wedge, Luke, and Biggs.
I took 4 Y-Wings to Regionals and made Top 8. Fly what works for you and leave the meta Players wondering what just happened to their copied "unbeatable" list.

So, that being said, X-wing is, in fact, so balanced that you can play whatever you want, and as long as you know how to use it, it can win? Even in a competitive setting?

The only games I know that are perfectly balanced are checkers and chess.
There will always be some broken combo that the game designers never thought to try out but players find almost instantly and that will be the new internet meta list for awhile. Until the next thing comes along.

On the other hand dice rolls and skill add allot to this game. That is why every tournament is not won with a "Fat Han and Corran".
Lucky for all of us there is no "I Win" list. We would all hate that soon enough.

X-Wing is quite balanced. Even at tournaments.

I played several tournaments and did rather well while i never tune anything and just take what i want to try out. Because i like the game for the manouvering, i also field small ships, sometimes accompanied by a big one as damage soaker.

Big ships are not always better, but usually can take damage which is not true for smaller ships, with which you can evade (even more) damage, IF you roll well enough.
The difference is the roll.

Furthermore there are a few combos with big ships and turrets that do rather well played by anyone, because those are the easiest things to play.
But no fun at all IMO, not to play against and not to play with.

Part of the reason that the larger ships tend to get used is due to the scoring system.

At the end of the game you total up the value of ships removed from play by each side.

This means if you can keep your larger ship alive via tankyness or arc dodging (or both see Han with Engine Upgrade, C3PO and R2D2 crew) you can deny somewhere between 40-60 points, hopefully the revision of rounds to 75mins will help a bit

 krodarklorr wrote:
Are the larger ships (I.e Aggressor, Firespray, ext) overall better than using smaller ships? Are they considered the be the main competitive option, and way too powerful sometimes?

Almost all Big Ships are competitive, and feature prominently in tournament lists, but they're almost always accompanied by smaller ships. Double Aggressor is a pretty hot item right now, but Big Ship Only lists are otherwise rare in a competitive setting (your local meta might be unusual in that sense).

The main reason I ask is, while I love them, every time I play with one, it never dies.

That's a big advantage that big ship can exploit. They usually maintain full capabilities until they are finally killed, whereas swarms of smaller ships will lose firepower as they get picked off. This has an out-sized effect in tournaments, where big ships who are on their last breath at the end of the game count for all their points when determining MOV.

There was a point in time where the turreted large ships were overpowered, but some newer upgrade cards and pilots have helped out the small ships (autothrusters in particular). The non-turreted big ships (Firespray, Aggressor, Shuttle) haven't really been re-balanced that much but IMO never really needed it.

That said, I don't like the turreted big ships at all and think they have been bad for the game. With no shooting arcs to worry about, and no red turning maneuvers, the maneuvering portion of the game becomes super boring to play and play against. Non-turreted big ships live and die by their maneuvering. Turreted big ships live and die by their upgrade cards, and whether their player does something stupid with them.

To give a specific suggestion to the OP: try playing a game with big ships vs a swarm of TIE fighters or Z-95s or B-Wings. You might be suprised at how fast a swarm can burn down a firespray if it strays into too many of their firing arcs.

I've seen double big ship lists almost as much as either one big ship or none. Double agressor is popular. I played a guy that used 2 shuttles and a Firespray. I've seen a ton of Fat Han and Dash. I personally like using 2 decimators.

Then again, there were a ton of lists that can eat those for breakfast depending on how the dice roll. 4 Bwings and a Z95 is popular. The only type of list that I really don't see much anymore is a TIE swarm. Mini swarms, sure, but I just don't see 7 or 8 TIEs on the table anymore.

Azeroth wrote:
I've seen double big ship lists almost as much as either one big ship or none. Double agressor is popular. I played a guy that used 2 shuttles and a Firespray. I've seen a ton of Fat Han and Dash. I personally like using 2 decimators.

Then again, there were a ton of lists that can eat those for breakfast depending on how the dice roll. 4 Bwings and a Z95 is popular. The only type of list that I really don't see much anymore is a TIE swarm. Mini swarms, sure, but I just don't see 7 or 8 TIEs on the table anymore.

Double Aggressor and Double Decimator seem like they'd be a ton of fun to play, regardless of effectiveness. And also, what is this term "Fat" mean? Just a ton of upgrades?

Yes "Fat" in this instance is to fill every upgrade slot (usually).

Double Aggressors are popular because with the free title (IG 2000) both ships (as long as they are alive) get to use the built in pilot skill of each. They can be pretty nasty, especially after you fatten them up with a number of upgrades. Most people will tell you they have to have "Autothrusters" for the build to work well.

Double Decimators can be fun but not very competitive. You can fatten one up nicely but the other is mostly just a floating target/blocker. Usually they are run with one of the elite TIE Interceptor pilots or maybe Echo or Wisper. They tank while the Fighter flanks.

 Nicorex wrote:
Yes "Fat" in this instance is to fill every upgrade slot (usually).

Double Aggressors are popular because with the free title (IG 2000) both ships (as long as they are alive) get to use the built in pilot skill of each. They can be pretty nasty, especially after you fatten them up with a number of upgrades. Most people will tell you they have to have "Autothrusters" for the build to work well.

Double Decimators can be fun but not very competitive. You can fatten one up nicely but the other is mostly just a floating target/blocker. Usually they are run with one of the elite TIE Interceptor pilots or maybe Echo or Wisper. They tank while the Fighter flanks.

Yeah, the Aggressor title is nasty with multiple of them. I just haven't gotten around to buying a second one.

Eh, I wanna try running a Decimator with just a bunch of cheap dudes. Probably Interceptors.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Eh, I wanna try running a Decimator with just a bunch of cheap dudes. Probably Interceptors.

Decimator + Tie Swarm is pretty fun. Lately I've been using:

4x Academy Pilots
Captain Oicunn
-Intimidation
-Mara Jade
-Intelligence Agent
-Anti-Pursuit Lasers
-Dauntless

The Decimator waggles his ship around at enemies, screwing up their maneuvers, causing damage, placing stress, just generally making a huge nuisance of himself. The TIE fighters take advantage of Intimidation's debuff to focus down whatever he's bumping into, or take advantage of the information you gained from Intelligence Agent to re-position your TIE fighters with barrel rolls.

 krodarklorr wrote:
.Yeah, the Aggressor title is nasty with multiple of them. I just haven't gotten around to buying a second one.

I've not been impressed by Brobot lists. First of all, stress is the worst thing for them so they fall pretty easy to control lists and each ship only has four shields and four hull, which is pretty fragile. Once they lose their fancy tricks, they drop pretty fast.

Eh, I wanna try running a Decimator with just a bunch of cheap dudes. Probably Interceptors.

Decimator + mini-swarms definitely works pretty well. Use the TIEs as blockers and then pound them with the Decimator.

I flew a Whisper + mini-swarm for a while (I still do from time to time) and while not quite the same, it was quite fun.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Eh, I wanna try running a Decimator with just a bunch of cheap dudes. Probably Interceptors.

Decimator + Tie Swarm is pretty fun. Lately I've been using:

4x Academy Pilots
Captain Oicunn
-Intimidation
-Mara Jade
-Intelligence Agent
-Anti-Pursuit Lasers
-Dauntless

The Decimator waggles his ship around at enemies, screwing up their maneuvers, causing damage, placing stress, just generally making a huge nuisance of himself. The TIE fighters take advantage of Intimidation's debuff to focus down whatever he's bumping into, or take advantage of the information you gained from Intelligence Agent to re-position your TIE fighters with barrel rolls.

Yeah, tried out Oicunn last night for the first time (only other time I fielded the Decimator was the really expensive guy), and I used 3 cheap Interceptors. My girlfriend used a generic Firespray with 2 Z-95s and a Y-wing. My list actually did rather well. But yeah, I thought of adding Intimidation to him in the future, as well as Dauntless. Sounds like it would be a lot of fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
.Yeah, the Aggressor title is nasty with multiple of them. I just haven't gotten around to buying a second one.

I've not been impressed by Brobot lists. First of all, stress is the worst thing for them so they fall pretty easy to control lists and each ship only has four shields and four hull, which is pretty fragile. Once they lose their fancy tricks, they drop pretty fast.

Eh, I wanna try running a Decimator with just a bunch of cheap dudes. Probably Interceptors.

Decimator + mini-swarms definitely works pretty well. Use the TIEs as blockers and then pound them with the Decimator.

I flew a Whisper + mini-swarm for a while (I still do from time to time) and while not quite the same, it was quite fun.

Eh, I have terrible luck with Tie Phantoms. I splurged and got 2 after the reprint, and actually used 2 in a list (Echo+Whisper) with Turr backing them up, but they never performed well. Sad, because they're probably my favorite TIE model.

 krodarklorr wrote:

KellyJ wrote:
The ships are irrelevant, though a lot of people net-list the current meta (Fat turret + agile little buddy). You have to find the ships and upgrades that play to your style and practice with them, tweek them here and there, and practice some more. Get to know your list and how it works and where its weak (kind of the same rules for 40K, na?). Get experience with your dials and get real good at eyeballing where your ship will be after the movement.
Too many people see the meta wining and jump on the wagon...only to get their butt handed to them by Wedge, Luke, and Biggs.
I took 4 Y-Wings to Regionals and made Top 8. Fly what works for you and leave the meta Players wondering what just happened to their copied "unbeatable" list.

So, that being said, X-wing is, in fact, so balanced that you can play whatever you want, and as long as you know how to use it, it can win? Even in a competitive setting?

Well you do have to be reasonable in running "whatever you want." You cant take an X-Wing, a kitted out Y-Wing, an A-Wing, and a B-Wing and fly them together and expect much. You need to develop your squadrons to provide synergies and mutual support as well as working with your flight plan. If you plan on flying a big tanky turret and a speedy partner to flank, taking Biggs or Howlrunner as your "speedy partner" is not going top help you (they are not 'speedy' (survivable) and unless you stick with the tank their Pilot Ability is pointless). However, Corran, Tycho, Soontir, Whisper, and guys like that fit the bill.
Of course your also left to the vagaries of the dice. I had an IG88 down to 1 hull with 2 autoblaster turrets lined up. Rolled blanks. Spent the TL...and rolled blanks. On BOTH ships. Some days an easy kill is the hardest thing to do. And you will always run into the guy who brought the perfect pair of scissors to your paper that you have been crushing rocks with all day.
Time WAS another factor. In a 60 minute match it was too easy to stall out a game and win on points. The additional 15 minutes (75 minute matches) takes that away and gives the small ship build the time and number of round needed to set up a kill box or plink the expensive tanky ship down point by point.

It's not big ships so much as big ships with 360 primary arcs that get accused of being cheesy. The reason is, you don't need to maneuver to line up a shot. That is a big part of the game to not have to worry about. The counter-argument is, big turrets may not be as challenging to play but they can be more challenging to play against; so players who enjoy being challenged should not complain about them.

I find that I just don't particularly enjoy playing the big ships. I like ion shenanigans myself. It really is about working out what you find fun in the game. Try some builds, play some, and above all let us know your findings!

 inmygravenimage wrote:
I find that I just don't particularly enjoy playing the big ships. I like ion shenanigans myself. It really is about working out what you find fun in the game. Try some builds, play some, and above all let us know your findings!

I'm pretty much the opposite. I don't care for ion stuff, but love running around ramming ships with the Decimator.

Big ships with turrets do have several innate advantages.

a - they boost further, meaning a high PS big ship has much better ability to dodge arcs
b - they can do so without regard to lining up their own shots
c -many upgrades complement each other, and being able to stack them gets you a sort of 'compound interest' benefit.
d - you need to completely kill them to get any points for them. Which is hard.

I really like using double decimator lists I they are decent on the table, not as uncompetitive as some would have you believe.

I used to run Oicunn and did the whole ramming thing, but it always seemed like I'd only do a couple damage a game with that (or none many times). I like Chiraneau paired with a patrol leader. Chiraneau is almost like a built in focus except that is gives a crit. Also, pairing experimental interface and expose lets you use expose almost every turn along with either a focus or target lock. Throw vader on the patrol boat and you have a ton of damage output. I usually add the moff and 2 other crew to almost eliminate any crit affecting Chiraneau adversly.