Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Confrontation 4Life!

Rackham Rules!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW declaread a significant profit in their last annual report. At least some of their lines are profitable.

They dropped in revenue and barely gained anything from cash generation.

Keep in mind this annual report is pre-AoS, but that's pretty bad for a business. It's likely that it's just restructuring (ie they have notably less staff because less stores) and less actually growing their market. Not a bad thing for a business, but definitely not sustainable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Step 1. Do no market research.
Step 2. Never admit to making a mistake.
Step 3. Drop the game instead of repairing the problems.....

Locally... AoS is not doing well, at all, at all.

Step 1. Brag about not doing market research.
Step 2. Blame your customers for not wanting what you're giving them.
Step 3. Burn it all down.

 kronk wrote:
Confrontation 4Life!

Rackham Rules!

That game didn't just lose momentum... it hit a brick wall. I've never seen a game with so much potential implode so fast. It had a huge, gorgeous model range!

 kronk wrote:
Confrontation 4Life!

Rackham Rules!

What even happened to it? The models were beautiful.

 Polonius wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Confrontation 4Life!

Rackham Rules!

That game didn't just lose momentum... it hit a brick wall. I've never seen a game with so much potential implode so fast. It had a huge, gorgeous model range!

Liar! Don't believe this slander! I just got my 4th Rackham tattoo! It is the best game ever!

It says so in this magazine I got yesterday!

 RexInvictus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

What if I told you that revenue and profit are two different things, and its possible to draw revenue from something while having a negative profit (that is to say, losing money) from it?

What if I told you that, according to GW, NONE of their lines are making profit?

I would tell you to reread the past few financial reports they have released. They are certainly turning a profit on 40k even if total revenues are down.

I'd say very few games around now will survive another 20 years, (although it really depends on how you define survive)

pretty much anything dependant on a licence will go because either the property will dwindle so it no longer makes sense to pay the licence fee, or the property will change hands, get rebooted etc resulting in the licence going to somebody else who will put out their own game (eg the original starwars RPG is not the same as todays starwars RPG)

I think the historical rule sets are probably not safe simply because the setting can be re-used by anybody, and so can the minis. As gaming tastes change a new rule set or sets is likely to pop up and take hold, poaching players and minis

I also think that with more choice than ever available marginal games have less chance of simply hanging on/hanging around with lots of alternatives coming out all the time. Stores don't have space to keep carrying them when they start to falter

Depending on how they are set up private companies can help protect a game if the owner(s) believe in it they can keep it going through tough times, but it's a double edged sword and when an owner retires/dies (which is going to happen in some of the current 'name' systems) a business can crumble as the remaining partners have to find cash to buy out there heirs (depending on how the company is set up)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'd say very few games around now will survive another 20 years, (although it really depends on how you define survive)

GW has survived for 20 years. I think GW or at least the game will survive another 20 years and possibly Warmachine. Those two games are safe because they are the most popular. These two games are not licensed it is their own IP.

IMO I think it'll break down as such...

Games that will be around for a long time with full support and a large following:
-WAoS
-W40K
-Warmachine/Hordes
-Flames of War

Games that will be around for a long time with full support, but a fledgling following:
-Infinity
-Kings of War
-Battletech
-Maulifax

Fads that may or may not stand the test of time.
-X-Wing
-Dropzone Commander

Games that I see falling into obscurity:
-Bolt Action
-DUST
-Firestorm Armada
-Dyspotian Wars
-Halo Wars
-AT-43

Why exactly do you think BA is going to fade into obscurity?

What about Dystopian Wars? and Battletech?

 sing your life wrote:
Why exactly do you think BA is going to fade into obscurity?

I'm sure it's fun game for those who play it, but I don't think it has the overall popularity or enough appeal to stick around for the long haul. I could be wrong, it's just that in my travels here in the US, which are by no means limited, I have never had this game come up in conversation or even seen this product on store shelves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DorianGray wrote:
What about Dystopian Wars? and Battletech?

Same comment as above for BA.


EDIT:
I see now that the game in the list is "Robotech" I actually meant Battletech. I used play Battletech, I think it's awesome, It's certainly stood the test of time, but never had a large following.

How did AT-43 make your list? Hasn't it been defunct for years now?

As to the ones in question- Malifaux I think is going to be going strong for a long time.


There are a lot of supported games missing from your list. Things like Wrath of Kings or Arena Rex.

+ lots for Star Fleet Battles, just wish I could find someone to play it against.

Pity mongoose no longer makes the models, shipping from the states would be a pain but would go for a few to try and get that game played again.

I've got a bunch of AT-43 stuff I got at fire sale prices after the company went bust and retailers were trying to get rid of the stock. I got large Cogs and Golem (?) armies, which are usable generally in SF games, plus a few White Star which are good generic human future soldiers.

They are nice models, playable straight out of the box (pre-paints, of course.)

The terrain bits are a nice bonus.

The rules are pretty good, about what 40K ought to be if Sigmarinized, though they need to add more H2H and special rules.

None of them!
Seriously.
Games Workshop just happened to be in the right place at the right time, the rest are still on the fringes and to be honest they have been around for a while but none have come close to market domination. Five years from now a lot of that list will be gone and no doubt replaced by new 'gods' for a while. Some will get the occasional boost like Star Wars because of the films but none will rise above the fringe they already occupy.
I give 40k, as a wargame(i'm not talking about GW here)10 years at the most before it is forgotten. As for being around in 2035, If I'm proved wrong feel free to dig me up and say "I told you so!"
Just don't expect a reply...

I don't think Flames of War will make it for another 10 years, or perhaps even 5, let alone 20.

I don't think they can go for another round around of Version 4 with all new books, even though Version 3 has some serious flaws at the moment.

And while they're trying to expand, FoW's weakness as a game when having anything to deal with anything outside of tanks is telling, especially when they tried turning Vietnam into a tank game, and decided that the best place to start WWI was the era when tanks were available. Now they're trying to make a Cold War Gone Hot game, but we'll see how successful they can be with that at a 15mm company level scale, when that era is probably best played at either small skirmishs or big, battalion level games.

Infinity, but it will only be 2-3 of the months 6-8 releases. Becaus, the rest of the spots will be for Warcrow as they bring that line back and make a fantasy skirmish form it .

 Kilkrazy wrote:
No-one plays Monopoly any more. It hasn't been updated since 1935.

Not to mention chess.

Well I think there are people whom still play chess same for Monopoly, I myself played it a few weeks ago. Witch was highly amusing

leopard wrote:
+ lots for Star Fleet Battles, just wish I could find someone to play it against.

Pity mongoose no longer makes the models, shipping from the states would be a pain but would go for a few to try and get that game played again.

Get Federation Commander and that company also sells tons of pewter minis from their website and 3rd party stores.

DorianGray wrote:

How many people other then 50-80 year olds still play Avalon Hill boardgames that came out in the 70s today? Or those old historical mini games?

*slowly raises hand*

 zgort wrote:

DorianGray wrote:

How many people other then 50-80 year olds still play Avalon Hill boardgames that came out in the 70s today? Or those old historical mini games?

*slowly raises hand*

I have a copy of The Punic Wars that came with Strategy & Tacts #53 in a poster mount.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
I mean supported. New editions new units books etc

Whens the next edition of chess out? I'm not buying a new copy until its revised.

Queen is OP, pawns need buff, sick of King being on the wrong end of the nerfhammer

 zgort wrote:

DorianGray wrote:

How many people other then 50-80 year olds still play Avalon Hill boardgames that came out in the 70s today? Or those old historical mini games?

*slowly raises hand*

It is surprising how many new Avalon Hill style games are being published these days. I have several of them but being 53 I don't count any more.

 oni wrote:
EDIT:
I see now that the game in the list is "Robotech" I actually meant Battletech. I used play Battletech, I think it's awesome, It's certainly stood the test of time, but never had a large following.

Say what?

Battletech was huge in the 80's and mid-late 90's. The game spawned video games, an animated cartoon and a line of toys and action figures.

To say that the game never had a large following is incorrect.

Pokemon will still be around.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 oni wrote:
EDIT:
I see now that the game in the list is "Robotech" I actually meant Battletech. I used play Battletech, I think it's awesome, It's certainly stood the test of time, but never had a large following.

Say what?

Battletech was huge in the 80's and mid-late 90's. The game spawned video games, an animated cartoon and a line of toys and action figures.

To say that the game never had a large following is incorrect.

Yes indeed, even I had heard of it as a child in the pestilent north east of England, and I hadn't heard of much.

D&D, Ninja Turtles, Battletech.

Oh yeah, and obviously fags, Red Stripe lager, chips, and heroin.

But the Tabletop miniature game has a very diminished following.

If anything all those video games have a lot more people than the TTG.

In 20 years time it is extremely difficult to make any logical predictions, the time frame is too vast and the current state of social and technological changes are too fast to make any solid predictions.

One is almost certain, companies that listen to their customers, deliver what they want (which is different from what the vocals want) and keep pace with technology will be around.

The games o the other hand will be altered, there are many reasons why, but if you want a first hand example, 40k is not an almost 30 year continuous saga, it is a continuous alteration and re-imagining of the core experience which has nothing to do with its first introduction to the world, one could say that when you look 1st and 7th together, they are two entirely different games in almost every respect.

The question then will become will the games of the companies that will still be around feel the same as they do now despite their evolution?

DorianGray wrote:
But the Tabletop miniature game has a very diminished following.

If anything all those video games have a lot more people than the TTG.

and so does 40K video games.