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Ah, I did not know that. Are they shrinking it down to fit into standard play or does it work out with the scale they're using?

They're sticking to the same scale - those things are sort of twice the length of the VSD, so they still work at that scale - they're just rather large.

Totally agree on Armada. In theory its the game I've been waiting my entire life to play, yet the scale feels wrong - if they'd done the ships in X-Wing size then it would work. the current scale feels too big for really big ships and its a very clunky system.

the other problem is that the star wars universe feels more about starfighter battles not capital ship battles - the whole point of the west end games fluff was that there weren't many rebel ships, they were to try and avoid direct combat with the imperial fleet and that much of it was about single ships rocking up and fighting each other.

I think armada is a missed opportunity and whilst I dearly love X-wing, I think they've burned a lot of goodwill over the Raider and Wave 7 fiasco whereby they previewed it almost a year ahead of time but no release. People are getting tired of waiting - they need to fix their shipping woes and fast.

 -Loki- wrote:
Just a point - Infinity already has. It's 10 years old, 1st edition was released in 2005.

I know it doesn't reach your 20 years, but Warmachine is 12 years old and you didn't list it.

warmachine is already here to stay!

Personally I think infinity, kings of war, and x wing are definitely here to stay. Infinity has a lot of momentum in the past few years, even though its really old, its still fresh! Kings of war is going to replace WHFB, just watch and see. X-Wing has the backing of the star wars name, and is also really easy to pick up and teach a younger crowd.

None of them. Twenty years from now, all the listed games will have replaced by new games, new ways of playing. Might not even be tabletop minis but likely some electonic version (not quite a "video game", but the next evolution, perhaps holographics, (3d) print-n-play or magnetically manipulated silicates. The only people who will still be playing those games listed before will be the old farts (like me) and anyone they can cajole into playing.

 Stormonu wrote:
None of them. Twenty years from now, all the listed games will have replaced by new games, new ways of playing. Might not even be tabletop minis but likely some electonic version (not quite a "video game", but the next evolution, perhaps holographics, (3d) print-n-play or magnetically manipulated silicates. The only people who will still be playing those games listed before will be the old farts (like me) and anyone they can cajole into playing.

I've read a lot of bobbins written here , but this is grade A bobbins. None of them? Seriously?! Replaced by "the next evolution". I hardly think so. Sure things are different from when I first started gaming but wildly different? People are involved in this hobby because they get to build stuff and play games with toy soldiers, there are already electronic alternatives which exist happily alongside model gaming without destroying it. Electronic media will never replace books entirely, electronic games will never replace physical games entirely. As for "(3d) print-n-play or magnetically manipulated silicates.", those are just different ways of geting your models on the table/material theyre made out of, its not a game changer by any means. Someone will still have to produce them, there were still be games to play with them.

Very few mentions of Malifaux in this thread. It's huge in some areas and I've noticed several groups double in size since Warhammer Fantasy bit the dust.

Wyrd is a solid company that's really grown, has an amazing IP, they have fingers on the pulse of the market because they actually get input from the players (everything goes through private, then public testing), and the kits are gorgeous (and becoming much easier to assemble).

Steampunk/Gothic Horror/Wild West/Zombie Hookers/Whatever skirmish game? Try Malifaux.
Like the setting but don't want to collect? More into RPG's? Play Through the Breach.
Want to know more about Earth in this game's universe? The Other Side is being detailed soon.
Want some light, goofier games? Evil Baby Orphanage and Puppet Wars.
Want a solid co-op game? Darkness Comes Rattling (I was absolutely blown away by this at Gencon)

The 2 FLGS's I've played at (New York and California) have started to drop GW and Privateer minis because people are getting pulled into Wyrd's games and not going back.

Malifaux fluff seems really odd and bizarre more gothic horror than steampunk. War machine is steampunk.

The fluff and the bizarre models just turned me off from that game. Who wants to play with a killer giant teddy bear with giant teeth (Teddy) or an undead reporter (Molly).

Apparently Malifaux is gaining popularity with woman and at Adepticon it was the only game with more than one or two women in it.

Malifaux setting really hits the spot for me to the point where it was taking over Infinity as well, but it's been really hard to get my group into it. Out of the 5 of us, only my brother and I play it, with token interest from the others.

Lately I've torn myself away from Malifaux to get back into Infinity for a while in the hope that soon another of the group decides to pick up the game. I'm at the point where I'm willing to buy the 2 player set and just give the Guild to the friend that's interested in the faction if it gets him into the game.

Though, our group is fairly stubborn. Once we find a game we like, we don't branch out much. And the group mostly likes Infinity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DorianGray wrote:
The fluff and the bizarre models just turned me off from that game. Who wants to play with a killer giant teddy bear with giant teeth (Teddy) or an undead reporter (Molly).

That's one of the best parts of Malifaux. It doesn't take itself seriously if you don't want it to. Want serious? There's Guild and Arcanists. Want gothic horror? There's Ressurectionists and Neverborn. Want outright silly? Gremlins are right there.

I can see why some wouldn't enjoy it, but it's really a unique game setting.

I think X Wing and Armada will stay strong at least in the mid term (5 years or so) simply because the new movies are on their way and FFG seems to be ready to capitalise on that.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I think X Wing and Armada will stay strong at least in the mid term (5 years or so) simply because the new movies are on their way and FFG seems to be ready to capitalise on that.

As long as Disney keeps putting out star wars movies and cartoons FFG will be in great shape. Not sure if x wing or any other game will be around in 20 years that's a long time from now, so I'm going to enjoy these great games now and not worry what's going to be around in 20 years. Hopefully when I'm 60 I will still enjoy flying my x wing around making pew pew noises with my buddies who will all be in there 60's with me.

I'm laughing a little bit thinking about 40k being in its 17th edition and still being a badly written rule set at that time.

 Chute82 wrote:


I'm laughing a little bit thinking about 40k being in its 17th edition and still being a badly written rule set at that time.

Who knows, the old guard will be retired by then. I can't see Kirby and JJ running the show when they're in their 90s. Maybe this is just blind optimism though.

 agnosto wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:


I'm laughing a little bit thinking about 40k being in its 17th edition and still being a badly written rule set at that time.

Who knows, the old guard will be retired by then. I can't see Kirby and JJ running the show when they're in their 90s. Maybe this is just blind optimism though.

I think it's blind optimism thinking 17th ed will be that long away. I'd say it's closer to 10 years away if things keep going the way they are

 agnosto wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:


I'm laughing a little bit thinking about 40k being in its 17th edition and still being a badly written rule set at that time.

Who knows, the old guard will be retired by then. I can't see Kirby and JJ running the show when they're in their 90s. Maybe this is just blind optimism though.

Don't see either one of those guys being around but just the thought of GW not getting it right in 20 years just makes me chuckle. Can't imagine the amount of bloat that will be in 40k in 20 years if they don't do something different from their current strategy.

Hopefully GW will be around in 20 years and I can tell the kids playing it back in my day how messed up the game was and about the old guard running the company back then. How back in my day I had to walk to the game store 20 miles, up hill both ways,just to get a game in. How if I would of kept my complete set of beta magic cards I would have been a millionaire. The list goes on and on..

DorianGray wrote:
Malifaux fluff seems really odd and bizarre more gothic horror than steampunk. War machine is steampunk.

The fluff and the bizarre models just turned me off from that game. Who wants to play with a killer giant teddy bear with giant teeth (Teddy) or an undead reporter (Molly).

Apparently Malifaux is gaining popularity with woman and at Adepticon it was the only game with more than one or two women in it.

Technically speaking, Warmachine isn't steampunk.
Steampunk is partially defined by Victorian asthetics and culture. Warmachine has neither.
It's just fantasy going through an industrial revolution.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Technically speaking, Warmachine isn't steampunk.
Steampunk is partially defined by Victorian asthetics and culture. Warmachine has neither.
It's just fantasy going through an industrial revolution.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but if you want to call a world of high fantasy with rapid industrialization, magic blending with technology, tesla coils and goggles, and steampowered impossible tech "not steampunk," you're going to get pushback.

It's not alternative history steampunk, and like any genre steampunk has been stretched to the breaking point, but I think it's safe to say that Warmachine, at least initially, took a profound influence from Steampunk. (Vintner escaped after the Lions Coup in a hot air balloon! )

 Chute82 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:


I'm laughing a little bit thinking about 40k being in its 17th edition and still being a badly written rule set at that time.

Who knows, the old guard will be retired by then. I can't see Kirby and JJ running the show when they're in their 90s. Maybe this is just blind optimism though.

Don't see either one of those guys being around but just the thought of GW not getting it right in 20 years just makes me chuckle. Can't imagine the amount of bloat that will be in 40k in 20 years if they don't do something different from their current strategy.

Hopefully GW will be around in 20 years and I can tell the kids playing it back in my day how messed up the game was and about the old guard running the company back then. How back in my day I had to walk to the game store 20 miles, up hill both ways,just to get a game in. How if I would of kept my complete set of beta magic cards I would have been a millionaire. The list goes on and on..

I keep hoping that they'll accidentally hire someone who understands game mechanics and can write him/herself out of a paper bag. I know there are people who like the "fluff" and black library books but I cringe when I read them; it's like pulp fiction from the 30's gone wrong.

Maulifaux doesn't take itself seriously so its not a serious game.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
No-one plays Monopoly any more. It hasn't been updated since 1935.

Not to mention chess.

Monopoly has had numerous new editions over the just last 10-15 years, and that's NOT just the branded versions (ie, Star Wars Monopoly, Marvel Monopoly, LotR Monopoly, etc), but new rules, ways to play, etc. Heck, they release a new branded version every other month it seems.

Heck, chess is also has countless different versions (granted, the rules are the same, but new versions of chess pieces = new models if you are going for accurate comparisons).

To be perfectly honest, I'll be somewhat shocked if tabletop miniature games are still as prominent 20 years from now, simply because technology will likely dramatically alter the industry. In another 10 years, 3-D scanning and printing may be cheap enough and advanced enough to potentially hurt miniature makers that are too slow, stubborn, or don't have the resources to adapt (which pretty much describes most of the top miniature games companies). I'd imagine that the only companies to survive are those that have A) kept their business model flexible enough to embrace or at least keep ahead of new technology (having a hard time thinking of any that truly fit that bill), or are diverse enough for it not to have as big of an impact (FFG comes to mind here).

In 15-20 years, we could see technology advances that may kill the industry completely, such as some form of 3-D hologram projection system that eliminates the need for physical pieces and terrain, just set up projectors on a table and move the holographic pieces using futuristic sensor gloves, who knows! Then again, as possible with any niche market, 20 years from now, we may still be playing the same games in the same way, still complaining about GW's prices and decisions, etc. After all, printed paper publication was supposed to have died about 10 years ago, and while technology has taken a bite out of it, it will be a long time before its truly dead (if ever).

I think DZC is too good to disappear easily, but 20 years is a brutally long amount of time! I could imagine all of the listed games disappearing.

DorianGray wrote:
Maulifaux doesn't take itself seriously so its not a serious game.

It's obviously something you don't like, but this statement is utter rubbish.

Like most non historical games, it's based in a fantasy setting. A portal to abother dimension, with things based on nightmares, is no more silly that other backstory.

It's hugely popular in the UK, with a large tournament scene, and they are about to drop a campaign system. And they also have announced a slightly larger model count skirmish game ala WM is coming. My WM stuff is already on sale on eBay because of this.

Within 20 years Citadel will have been purchased by Disney and all GW IP will be folded into the Star Wars brand. There will be no miniatures wargaming other than Star Wars, which will feature jedi space marines in power armor fighting with blasters and lightsabers while X-wings and Thunderhawks dogfight in the skies above. In the grim darkness of the far future there is only Star Wars.

Haruspex wrote:
Within 20 years Citadel will have been purchased by Disney and all GW IP will be folded into the Star Wars brand. There will be no miniatures wargaming other than Star Wars, which will feature jedi space marines in power armor fighting with blasters and lightsabers while X-wings and Thunderhawks dogfight in the skies above. In the grim darkness of the far future there is only Star Wars.

To be honest, that sounds amazing.

Warzone was first released20 years ago. The game might not be a lot like it was back then but nor is warhammer.