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Hi,

I want to form a complete Gue'vesa army with kitbashed and/or greenstuff'd riptides and all. Now I realise that this could go against the fluff and I thought about this possible background:
The humans are not human helpers for the tau, they are plundering, raping pirates with stolen tau stuff. They are heretechs. I think about kitbashing some (not loyal!) adeptus mechanicus in there to give a background how they could forge the plundered tau stuff to work for humans. There would be no problem fluff wise why I would fight other Tau or Farsight armies. What's your opinion about that?

It would play good. If I win, im happy about the game I won. If I lose i'm happy that the raping, murdering savages are dead.

Could work, though we've seen that the security systems on Tau stuff is... pretty lethal to non-Tau.

Could probably mimic this by running as mostly-Guard with a small cadre of Fire Warriors or one Riptide, representing those few pieces the AdMech has managed to cobble together. Possibly run a few Drones as counts-as Gun-servitors and such for the Tech-Priests.

Or just ally them with Farsight as he seems to not give a crap about any of the rules the Ethereals force upon the Tau Empire. I'm figuring if he lets earth caste pilot crisis suits and he wouldn't be too bothered by guevesa getting fire warrior suits or even crisis suits.

I think it's been established that the Crisis Suits are lethal to human pilots. Either a security system or just where the neural-induction connections link to the Tau do nasty, nasty things to the human body.

There's also the problem that the average Tau is shorter than the average Human.

 Psienesis wrote:

There's also the problem that the average Tau is shorter than the average Human.

So? find a midget.

Also, yes, I do realize that the neural interface would likely kill the pilot.

I think most Imperial Worlds kill midgets at birth. They might be Squats, and everyone knows that having Squats is how you get Tyranids.

 Psienesis wrote:
I think it's been established that the Crisis Suits are lethal to human pilots. Either a security system or just where the neural-induction connections link to the Tau do nasty, nasty things to the human body.

There's also the problem that the average Tau is shorter than the average Human.

So again, Earth Caste is the solution. Earth Caste are the squats of Tau and no doubt would a crisis suit designed for a Fire Castw be awkward for one. But... They are also the master scientists/engineers of Tau and I'm sure if they didn't have Ethereals controlling their every move not only could they modify a crisis suit for an Earth Caste pilot (as they have in the Enclaves) but they could probably do the same for a human pilot as well.

All of the restrictive gak in Tau fluff is generally from Ethereal edicts; castes can't interbreed, each caste must stick to its designated role for the Greater Good, auxiliary races can never rise to positions of command, etc. Once you get rid of Ethereal BS and have a leader that detests it scraping out an existence on the ork filled frontier I think you get some leeway for this type of whackier player created fluff to work in canon.

...the castes can't interbreed because they're sub-species. It may not be possible for a Fire Caste and an Earth Caste to interbreed, as we aren't given details on their genetic compatibility.

You also start getting into Mary/Marty Sue territory when you start blending in all the best of given factions and taking none of the downsides. Not to mention some FiM heresy.

 Psienesis wrote:
...the castes can't interbreed because they're sub-species. It may not be possible for a Fire Caste and an Earth Caste to interbreed, as we aren't given details on their genetic compatibility.

You also start getting into Mary/Marty Sue territory when you start blending in all the best of given factions and taking none of the downsides. Not to mention some FiM heresy.

This. I mean, the Air Caste used to be able to fly, for Gods' sake

 Psienesis wrote:
...the castes can't interbreed because they're sub-species. It may not be possible for a Fire Caste and an Earth Caste to interbreed, as we aren't given details on their genetic compatibility.

You also start getting into Mary/Marty Sue territory when you start blending in all the best of given factions and taking none of the downsides. Not to mention some FiM heresy.

Sure, I mean I play Tau Empire myself and accept the 1984 stuff in part because for me they are still the lesser of all evils in 40k but no doubt the darkside gives them some more depth as a race. I haven't run off to Farsight like some Tau players I know based on disgust with the Ethereals for example. That said, I understand their perspective and that's cool as it certainly sets up a sort of civil war that I'm sure will eventually come between Empire and Enclaves which would be awesome for both fluff and gameplay. Plus this guy wants some kind of human army that uses Tau tech... I'm really just trying to help him find a way that that can work and be credible in existing canon.

One thing I will state though on Tau castes is that subspecies can and do regularly interbreed in captivity and even on occasion in the wild. Bengal and Siberian tigers are examples of subspecies, they are completely genetically compatible and produce fertile offspring. If anything Tau subspecies, being sentient life forms like humans, make more sense as being seen as "races"... Examples of the same species that have adapted to different climates but remain genetically near identical and could easily breed. This is fan theory/speculation but I had always figured the strict breeding regulations were to help prevent mutations that could lead to psykers showing up. As not only do the Ethereals not allow intercaste breeding but they select the specific mates for everyone. Most likely two Tau with slightly higher than average warp signatures would not be allowed to breed.

Well, it is known that Adeptus Mechanicus only preserve knowledge they have found. Rarely they get advance anything, or even keep it. Unless it is for the 'Imperium of Man'. But, due to wast interstellar space between known worlds of Imperium, a word about someones progress can take hundreds of years to reach Terra.

In your case, you could fluff your army with:
Cohort Mechanicus makes a raid on a recently discovered Tau 'forge' moon. They pick up the gear, spares, etc., they brake the survivors under our psychic pressure, who tell them how to forge/operate certain stuff. Your army might live to the next edition, when a Inquisitor orders an EXTERMINATUM for your forgeworld.

The only example I know of of a human trying to use Tau technology was in Gav Thorpe's Kill Team novel... Brains of the Last Chancers got his brain fried by an electro-prod security system.

Given time and Heretekal ingenuity, that could probably be be disabled. We also know that humans are capable of using mind-machine interfaces via Imperial Mind Impulse Unit technology, so a heretek could probably kludge together a hybrid technology that allows humans to pilot a battlesuit.

As for finding pilots small enough, using either high-grav worlders or naturally short pilots are both viable options. While the popular Warhammer trope is for six foot extras from The punchline is Machismo, that doesn't mean that every human fits that mould. I could go for a walk in the town and find a hundred 'Tau-sized' humans without even trying. Admittedly, most of them would be women, which could draw flak from too many idiots to count.

Thanks for all the answers,

Would an radical inquisitor use modified tau technologie to hunt down chaos/tyranids? I could use him as an aun'va 'count as' after kitbashing both models.
I still like the idea of the selfish tech-heretic pirates, even if its only to avoid the entire mary sue area.

Corelich wrote:
Would an radical inquisitor use modified tau technologie to hunt down chaos/tyranids?

Is there something a radical inquisitor WOULDN'T use? Tau tech is "heretical" but still a lot more palatable than summoning daemons and binding them to your will, and radicals do that too.

Inquisitors, Rogue Traders and selected other powerful Imperials use Xeno tech - mainly weapons and defensive items but also more esoteric stuff. They're not automatically declared heretics as long as the xeno item is clearly used for the good on the IoM. Some of the grenades available to GK/inquisitors are Xeno in origin, but they're just weapons and using them against the makers or other Xenos is seen as acceptable.

Sure. Radical Inquisitor is radical. Almost by definition s/he will do anything to achieve their ends.

Of course they'd keep it all a deep dark secret and eliminate all witnesses afterwards.

The original post seems to be talking about whole armies of humans carrying Tau gear. In that case even a radical inquisitor would likely use conscripted Imperial forces and hide his xeno tech, lest other Inquisitors get proof of his heresy.

Likewise, Rogue Traders use xeno tech, but usually in limited quantity. They are there to make a profit; it's better to sell xeno tech on the black market for astronomical sums than use it yourself. Also, they have to remain respectable. Unless they exterminate the Ecclesiarchy missionaries and representatives of other Imperial bureaucracies in their expedition and go completely rogue (it has happened) they wouldn't go 100% Tau gear unless they simply joined the Greater Good.

The most likely situation would be variant on the OPs own suggestion - pirates, renegades, an isolated human enclave that trades with or raids Tau space, or possibly the human resistance movement on a world the Tau have conquered. Those are all pretty believable back stories for a human force using Tau equipment.

If you want your humans using powered suits up to Riptide size you'd have to include a significant Heretek component to your motley crew. Rebels or pirates would be less likely to use the larger suits, but you could still make it work with sufficient fluff. Your tech-engineers could be Mechanicum outcasts, in which case you could go in for some Mechanicum allies in your force (suitably painted in non-Martian colors of course) but it could be rogue Earth Caste working against the Greater Good, a contingent of Jokaero or even something more exotic.

One of the better hybrid suggestions I've seen, OP. Well done!

Tanks Gorhack,
Thats a damn good reply and exactly what I was looking for. I will post pictures of my army now and then in my other thread.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
S but it could be rogue Earth Caste working against the Greater Good,!

Our group actually thought a bit about that too - a Tau Sept that maybe still look for the Greater Good but have decided to do Greater Evil in order to reach their goals. Yes, complete with Battlesuits using skulls as decorations and having flayed Dark Eldar hanging as tabards... Scare the enemy enough and he doesn't even want to fight you.

 StarDrop wrote:
Well, it is known that Adeptus Mechanicus only preserve knowledge they have found. Rarely they get advance anything, or even keep it. Unless it is for the 'Imperium of Man'. But, due to wast interstellar space between known worlds of Imperium, a word about someones progress can take hundreds of years to reach Terra.

In your case, you could fluff your army with:
Cohort Mechanicus makes a raid on a recently discovered Tau 'forge' moon. They pick up the gear, spares, etc., they brake the survivors under our psychic pressure, who tell them how to forge/operate certain stuff. Your army might live to the next edition, when a Inquisitor orders an EXTERMINATUM for your forgeworld.

There is a specific Forgeworld in the cultmech codex that dabbles in Xenos tech. It has brought the inquisition to question many times.
I forget their name.
Fortunately, their value to the Imperium outweighs the potential heresy.

There is an ex-Inquisitor that pilots a Battlesuit and hopes to become a Farsight Bodyguard. Forgot his name, though.

I have the same idea you got, but I'll use normal Gue'vesa instead of pirates. I'll use the line that they are the first entire Gue'vesa-composed Hunter Cadre. They'd be descendent of the oldest generation of humans born and raised under Tau - so they never grew up or lived under Imperial indoctrination. Why would they ever betray the Tau Empire, after knowing how the human empire treats its own citizens and other races?
They'd be loyal to Tau as a Commissar is to the Imperium - thus making them the first group of humans to deserve Tau tech to its fullest.

As Shas'Nel put it: Earth Cast can do wonders.

 Vector Strike wrote:
There is an ex-Inquisitor that pilots a Battlesuit and hopes to become a Farsight Bodyguard. Forgot his name, though.

I have the same idea you got, but I'll use normal Gue'vesa instead of pirates. I'll use the line that they are the first entire Gue'vesa-composed Hunter Cadre. They'd be descendent of the oldest generation of humans born and raised under Tau - so they never grew up or lived under Imperial indoctrination. Why would they ever betray the Tau Empire, after knowing how the human empire treats its own citizens and other races?
They'd be loyal to Tau as a Commissar is to the Imperium - thus making them the first group of humans to deserve Tau tech to its fullest.

As Shas'Nel put it: Earth Cast can do wonders.

Yeah. Gue'vesa are the way to go.

The Imperium's engineers and scientists couldn't solder some guns and a radar onto a rhino over the course of 6,000 years. Reverse-engineering Tau technology is beyond the capabilities of the Imperium, to say nothing of pirates.

That's because the Imperium have rules against doing things, not because they lack the ability. Hereteks who ignore the rules of the Mechanicum have a long and colourful history of building new and powerful weapons and variants.

I can't see why this wouldn't work. Tau technology is not that super-duper complicated: it is mostly comparable to various Imperial tech, just over-engineered and use inferior but simple technology isntead of the various archeotech the Imperium employs. For example, the Crisis Suit is in fact a Power Armor with a Jump Pack, but since the Tau can't into Black Carapace and super-compact systems, the Crisis is much bulkier and has a bazillion auxiliary systems that do the exact same thing as the two dozen main systems in the Power Armor. A Techpriest who are familiar with the Power Armour would have no problem with "fixing" a Crisis Suit - he would just use PA tech to make the Crisis usable for humans.

The same goes for pretty much everything else. You just need a very knowledgeable group of Techpriests to make the concept work.

There's also the problem that the average Tau is shorter than the average Human.

So? That's thinking like a person with ethics!
A heretek doesn't need all the squishy meat bits of the human to pilot a battlesuit, just the central nervous system, enough appendages to interface with the physical controls and a few vital organs to keep the rest alive on nutrient past.

And yes, learning to use Tau tech is quite believable. Privateers on the Tau side are allowed access to limited tau technology, but would also get access to understanding of how it worked enough to maintain it. After all, steal a few earth caste at the same time and get them to explain how it works.

The integration of human and tau tech wouldn't be especially stable where it's mechanically linked, but starship-wise the Imperium is broadly better off anyway. Most tau stuff is better on a micro scale - drones, personal armaments, communications, small craft, things like that, which an imperial ship could easily carry without necessarily being wired up to.

I'd use kroot as the 'generic' pirates - limited body armour and heavy slug rifles, and S3/T3 statlines.

I would bulk them out with drones, battlesuits and tanks. No fire warriors/pathfinders as that leaves the WS2/I2 query.

Aun'Shi makes for a nice dashing pirate captain with double-handed melee weapon and an iron halo or equivalent.