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I've hated Blood Claws from the day they were created. The only time they were useful was in 4th ed when you could Rhino rush and give them 2 power weapons for like 8 points a piece and only then were still only really useful against Guard. I played a game last week with a 9 man squad in a Rhino with a Wolf Priest and they actually were really really fun little squad. The preferred enemy rule really made this squad worth while. Of course this still is a 258 point squad (I gave them a flamer for the turn they disembark but cannot charge). But being that you have to take 2 HQ's anyway the squad is only 148 points which you should be able to make up. But really in terms of fun level I have to rate them very high as it brought be back to being true to the Space Wolf ideals. I may experiment further with them and put a 15 man squad lead by the Priest in a Land Raider and see how they do being able to charge out the turn the disembark

And they're still quite God awful. They aren't fast and don't hit hard.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And they're still quite God awful. They aren't fast and don't hit hard.

Sure they are slow but they definitely hit hard with 4 attacks on the charge. Its like watching Ork boyz dumping dice on the enemy but they actually have a good armor save and not terrible moral.

Skyclaws fixes the mobility issue and are the cheapest assault marines in the game (more attacks thanks to rage) while they can take a Stormwolf which is one heck of a flyer and it solves their AA limitations.

Also, that's why they're in a Rhino, and even if they are charged they still get the 4 attacks

 Vankraken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And they're still quite God awful. They aren't fast and don't hit hard.

Sure they are slow but they definitely hit hard with 4 attacks on the charge. Its like watching Ork boyz dumping dice on the enemy but they actually have a good armor save and not terrible moral.

Same logic applies to Berserker Marines (which are even better) but nobody says they're okay either. At least they have an absurdly expensive formation that allows them to charge after Deep Striking.

 thefallenjackal wrote:
Also, that's why they're in a Rhino, and even if they are charged they still get the 4 attacks

You can't charge out of a Rhino, which is also VERY easily popped.

I think they are quite good. I used them on saturday as allies with my AM, they did quite well as a counter charge unit.

Also, skyclaws can be taken in units of 5, with 2 powerfists and 2 meltas. Awesome little tank popping unit.

Also why the wolf priest is there to give them preferred enemy, it's what makes them worth while

I'm running a squad of 10 skyclaws but have magnetised some bolters and backpacks so I can switch them to grey hunters in 2 or 3 minutes.

Debating whether to give them 2 meltas or 2 flamers. Could do with the extra meltas, but the done thing seems to be giving them flamers to bypass that BS3.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And they're still quite God awful. They aren't fast and don't hit hard.

Sure they are slow but they definitely hit hard with 4 attacks on the charge. Its like watching Ork boyz dumping dice on the enemy but they actually have a good armor save and not terrible moral.

Same logic applies to Berserker Marines (which are even better) but nobody says they're okay either. At least they have an absurdly expensive formation that allows them to charge after Deep Striking.

Blood claws have the luxury of being dirt cheap and you can field 10 for nearly half the price of the equivalent number of zerkers. When you want some cheap volume of attacks then blood claws do the job quite well. Being troops you can very easily spam them as MSU obsec objective grabbers as well as become pressure units if used with drop pods. Hidden power fist doesn't hurt either. Blood Claws have a lot more tactical flexibility than just being purely kill machines and are a lot more disposable when they need to be.

I just noticed too that SkyClaws are 15 points a piece compared to Assault Marines which are 17. I'm telling yall that this Wolf Priest and Ulrik special rule of preferred enemy has got me all excited about Blood Claws again. I'm even now thinking about using a squad of 15 in a LR Crusader with Ulrik and a squad of 9 Skyclaws with a Wolf Priest (with a jump pack) and they all get preferred enemy. I mean its only 180 points for 15 models (aka 60 attacks being able to charge the turn they disembark)

On a side note, unless they are WS 7 they still hit on 4+ rerolling 1's which is solid IMO

 thefallenjackal wrote:
Also, that's why they're in a Rhino, and even if they are charged they still get the 4 attacks

Do they get 4 attacks a piece if they're charged? I was under the impression you only get the Rage bonus when you charge and it doesn't 'dtack' with Counter-attack?

D

 thefallenjackal wrote:
I've hated Blood Claws from the day they were created. The only time they were useful was in 4th ed when you could Rhino rush and give them 2 power weapons for like 8 points a piece and only then were still only really useful against Guard. I played a game last week with a 9 man squad in a Rhino with a Wolf Priest and they actually were really really fun little squad. The preferred enemy rule really made this squad worth while. Of course this still is a 258 point squad (I gave them a flamer for the turn they disembark but cannot charge). But being that you have to take 2 HQ's anyway the squad is only 148 points which you should be able to make up. But really in terms of fun level I have to rate them very high as it brought be back to being true to the Space Wolf ideals. I may experiment further with them and put a 15 man squad lead by the Priest in a Land Raider and see how they do being able to charge out the turn the disembark

10 wolf guard + in a CotGW detachment will be as effective, if not more effective than 15 blood claws. WS5 VS WS3 is huge, and will have the WG hitting on as many as the BC would have. TWC still outclass everything else in the codex that even thinks about assaulting. The only downside to them is no transports.

Counter attack does not grant them rage, that rule specifically states "Only when charging" and counter attack states you gain +1 when charged.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 thefallenjackal wrote:
I've hated Blood Claws from the day they were created. The only time they were useful was in 4th ed when you could Rhino rush and give them 2 power weapons for like 8 points a piece and only then were still only really useful against Guard. I played a game last week with a 9 man squad in a Rhino with a Wolf Priest and they actually were really really fun little squad. The preferred enemy rule really made this squad worth while. Of course this still is a 258 point squad (I gave them a flamer for the turn they disembark but cannot charge). But being that you have to take 2 HQ's anyway the squad is only 148 points which you should be able to make up. But really in terms of fun level I have to rate them very high as it brought be back to being true to the Space Wolf ideals. I may experiment further with them and put a 15 man squad lead by the Priest in a Land Raider and see how they do being able to charge out the turn the disembark

10 wolf guard + in a CotGW detachment will be as effective, if not more effective than 15 blood claws. WS5 VS WS3 is huge, and will have the WG hitting on as many as the BC would have. TWC still outclass everything else in the codex that even thinks about assaulting. The only downside to them is no transports.

Counter attack does not grant them rage, that rule specifically states "Only when charging" and counter attack states you gain +1 when charged.

15 Blood Claws are making 60 attacks on the charge compared to the 40 from Wolf Guard. Assuming the WG are hitting on 3s due to CotGW vs WS4 then its 26.4 hits. Blood Claws are hitting on 4s vs anything except WS 7+ (hitting tau and grots on 3+ but so does everything else) and that's 30 hits. Sure they are getting hit on 3s most of the time instead of 4s but the unit has 50% more wounds to make up for the higher chance to be hit. TWC are definitely great close combat units but unless they are ran as bolt pistol and chainsword then they aren't all that points efficient vs blobs of weak fodder units (fearless guard blobs, mobs of boyz, gaunts, etc).

The idea here wasn't going to try to find out what the "best" unit was, I mean my buff army I roll 2 squads of TWC and 2 squads of 5 Wolf guard termis lead by rune priests to cast prescience for their 12 plasma gun attacks and squads of grey hunters in DOs with melta guns... I get all that, this was a "fun" squad and how putting the wolf priest in there made them worth while.