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WAAAAAGGGHHH!

Hello! I am new to 40k (never played a game and am the process of building my army). I have all the book for playing orks (7th rules, codex and WAAAAGH Ghazghull supplement) and have read through them all, but still have questions on formations and detachments. I am having a hard time understanding how they work and I did not get a clear explanation (or at least one I could understand) in the codex or rule book.

So here are some basic questions

1. Difference between a formation and detachment?
2. Can you have multiple formations and detachments?
3. If 2 is a yes then each unit in your army can only correspond to one detachment for the sake of qualifying for the detachment right? Meaning a troop choice in detachment 1 only contributes to that detachment and not detachment 2.
4. If you have multiple detachments then do all your units get bonuses from said detachments or only the ones in said detachment? Detachment 1 grants +1 WS to meganobs. Do the meganobs from detachment 2 get that +1 WS as well?
5. Can you mix detachments from say the Ork 7th codex with the Ghazy supplement?
6. Can you have multiple of the same HQ like 2 warbosses?

If confused on the question assumed I asked it wrong. Obviously I am not the smartert warboss...yet.
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1. Formations are a more strict set of unit requirements with some added rules. They do not usually follow any sort of Force Organization structure. For example Bully Boyz requires 3 units of 5 mega nobz. The Bully Boyz unit can take trukks as a dedicated transport because its allowed as part of the unit entry but you can't add additional units of more meganobz, tankbustas, boyz, etc because the formation states "3 units of bully boyz". All formations are a detachment as are any FOC detatchment like a Combined Arms Detachment, The Ork Horde Detachment, The Great WAAAGH Detachment, etc.
2. You can take as many detachments as the points limit allows.
3. Correct, Each unit can only be counted as being apart of a single detachment. A unit of boyz taken as part of a CAD is not allowed to count towards the requirement of a Ork Horde nor do they gain the benefits of the Ork Horde.
4. Answered in 3. A unit in a detachment gains the benefits from its detachment. A unit of Gretchen in a Ork Horde Detachment does not gain objective secured as it is not part of a CAD.
5. Yes you can, different factions have different ally status which can impact some deployment options and unit interactions. In the example you put both are Orks so both are battle brothers (the highest ally relationship) so they act as friendly to each other (they are still in different detachments).
6. You can have multiple HQs but not multiple of the same unique character in an army. So you could have 2 Warbosses in a single detachment, 2 Warbosses with each one being in separate detachments, etc. You cannot have 2 Grotsnik's in your army regardless of how many detachments you have. Its not uncommon to see multiple Painboyz in a single army. There is even a formation for Orks with 3 Big Meks, a Weirdboy, and a Warboss.

Detachment = A grouping of units through either some sort of Force Organization System or a Formation.
Force Organization = a collection of HQs, Troops, Elites, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, etc slots.
Formation = Generally a list of units that makes up the formation.
All of these are allied together to form your army list.

So a army is comprised of a single formation or multiple formations? Are formations and detachments really the same thing, but different layers of it? Kinda like how teeth and the tongue are all part of the mouth?

1. Ok so in the bully boyz detachment I would have the three squads of 5 meganobs each, but no other unit could be included in this detachment for the sake of receiving the buffs associated with it. However the meganobs can be placed into your trukks from other detachments no problem right?

6. Is there a limit on HQs? For instance green tide requires 1 warboss. Council of the WAAAGH has 2 warbosses. Is the only limit the points for what I can do with HQs?

So in theory (with a huge amount of points) I could build a single army that was comprised of the Green tide, bully boyz, council of WAAAGH and dread mob detachments which all could fully interact with each other, but not share detachment specific buffs. Right?

Your Army is the collection of Detachments you are fielding. They all operate under your total army points value.

Formations are a type of detachment (they are called a Formation Detachment). Bully Boyz Formation Detachment for example

A Combined Arms or a Ork Horde for example are a kind of Force Organization Detachment. They have slots for units like Boyz, Lootas, Killa Kanz, etc that are assigned a Force Organization Slot type. Killa Kanz are heavy support while Ork Boyz are troops.

Basically any way you field a unit is within some form of detachment.

1. The Formation Detachment of Bully Boyz requires 3 units of meganobz and that Formation rules requires that each unit contains 5 meganobz. The unit entry for Meganobz allows you to include a dedicated transport such as a trukk. The Trukk would be apart of the Bully Boyz Formation. You could also take a trukk in an Ork Horde Detachment as a fast attack choice and let the Bully Boyz ride in that trukk (Orks are Battle Brothers with Orks so they can ride in each others transports as they treat each other as friendly when in the same army list).

6. Points and available slots in your detachments are your only limit to how many non unique HQs you can take.

Your theoretical example is correct if all those detachments can fit within the points limit of your army for the battle.

Alright gotcha that makes things a lot more clear. Thank you very much for your help!

All right here is another question just for clarification sakes.

WAAAGH Ghazy Green tide formation detachment is a warboss and 10 seperate boy squads merged into one super squad correct? So its at least 101 models in one unit?

Do all units need to be part of a detachment? So lets say I went full green tide horde up to a 1000 point value alone in a 1500 point game. Could I then fill the 500 remaining points in with various squads that do not relate to a single or multiple detachment to the degree in which they would qualify for the bonuses? For example would the 1000 points of green tide and then a battle wagon here, dakka jet over there with some killa kanz here and a burna squad with a mekboy around the corner be real army that I can play following 100% of the standard rules?

I would hate to show up to my local gaming store with my army all prepped and ready to go and they tell me its not built correctly.

Yes as long as you meet the requirement for each detachment you bring. So for example you bring your 1000 point Green Tide detachment and have a Combined Arms Detachment to fill out the remaining points for your 1500 point army list. You still need to meet the requirements for fielding a Combined Arms Detachment. The CAD for example requires 1 HQ choice and 2 troops choices in the detachment.

But do all my units need to be part of a detachment or can they be separate? Like totally just there for side pieces.

So if I only went Green tide and wanted just a few side pieces like killa kanz or burna boyz I would have to file them under combined arms detachment meaning I would need two troop choices separate from my green tide with 1 extra hq choice before I could add in those burna boyz or kanz?

Also is my understanding the massive 100 man unit of green tide correct?

Also can a character take items both from the WAAAGH ghazy relics as well as ork codex? Could he have one form each at the same time? Can he pick whichever or does it depend on what his formation is from? So could my warboss in the green tide take a lucky stikk or is he stuck to the Ghazy relics?

Every unit needs to be apart of a detachment or else your army list is considered unbound. The rules allow for an unbound army (basically take whatever you want) but people will very rarely play unbound. A properly formatted army within rules of the the detachment system is called a Battle Forged Army.

Green tide is 10 units of boyz plus a warboss combined into one. The amount of boyz in each unit and what wargear/upgrades you give them is up to you (but still following the rules for a boyz unit). Minimum model count is 101 models.

Alright so it stands to reason that all detachments within the army must be qualified for. Excellent!


Also can a character take items both from the WAAAGH ghazy relics as well as ork codex? Could he have one form each at the same time? Can he pick whichever or does it depend on what formation he is from? So could my warboss in the green tide take a lucky stikk or is he stuck to the Ghazy relics? Ghazy himself does not count as a warboss does he?

Again thank you very much for answering my questions and helping me get started. Helping me out a ton!

I imagine the ghazy supplement is 100% seperate from the ork codex in its wargear and upgrades for special stuff, but its really just more options due to being battle brothers with the standard ork codex.

Relics are only eligible from the ruleset that the detachment comes from. The Warboss in the Green Tide can only take relics from the Ghazz supplement because the Green Tide uses that ruleset. A CAD or Ork Horde would use relics from the base Ork codex. You could have a Big Mek or Warboss from a CAD with a lucky stikk join the Green Tide (following the independent character rules) to give the green tide the benefit of the lucky stikk. Same thing with adding a Painboy from a CAD to a Green Tide. Independent characters can basically join any friendly unit (stuff that are battle brothers with each other are friendly) unless otherwise noted in the unit or formation rules.

Ghazzy himself is a Lord of War and is taken as that. You can not use the character ruleset for Ghazz as a replacement for the Warboss requirement. The Warboss and Ghazz are completely different entities. That being said you can use the physical Ghazz model to count as a Warboss in mega armor if you want.

Alright so taking green tide as my formation and Ork Horde as my detachment means I pick one of them to be the main. I would then pick the green tide and the warboss as my warlord. From there I would roll for his warlord traits. The Ork horde detachment is there for the filler units like elites and fast attacks.

So that right there works?

Yes that is correct. Just make sure you fulfill the minimum requirements for the Ork Horde detachment which is 1 HQ and 3 troops. If you don't want that many extra troops then you can use a CAD which requires 1 HQ and 2 troops. Both of those have access to the standard Ork codex units, relics, and rules.

Alright and so my warboss can take a ghazy relic and my painboy from another detachment can take a ork relic?

I cant find an entry combined arms detachment in my material anywhere. Does it give any bonuses for being a detachment or is just filler/ allowing you to bring in another faction?

Only Ork units that can take relics are the Warboss and Big Mek.

Combined Arms Detachment is in the main rule book and is the standard detachment for basically any faction. Combined Arms does give bonuses. Primarily it gives Objective Secured.to troops.

It is one of the two Detachments found in the main Rulebook.
Actually, Vankraken is replying fast and accurately so I might as well just sit back and watch....

JinxDragon wrote:
It is one of the two Detachments found in the main Rulebook.
Actually, Vankraken is replying fast and accurately so I might as well just sit back and watch....

I know right? Love this guy! <3


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of questions actually heres another

The entry on the painboy in the codex says he can take items from the ork know wots list. Does this mean he could have a kustom force field and WAAAGH banner?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
The entry on the painboy in the codex says he can take items from the ork know wots list. Does this mean he could have a kustom force field and WAAAGH banner?

The Orky Know-wots list isn't refering to the page in the appendix listing all those things, it's the list on the Ork Wargear list page just before the Warboss page. This gives you the points values and some limitations (shown by the little numbers).

 Quanar wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
The entry on the painboy in the codex says he can take items from the ork know wots list. Does this mean he could have a kustom force field and WAAAGH banner?

The Orky Know-wots list isn't refering to the page in the appendix listing all those things, it's the list on the Ork Wargear list page just before the Warboss page. This gives you the points values and some limitations (shown by the little numbers).

Said page does not have the banner or shield listed. Are the ones listed the general use ones meaning the character has to have the specific know wot on their character page to take it meaning meks and painboys cant take the shield, but only big meks can?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Said page does not have the banner or shield listed. Are the ones listed the general use ones meaning the character has to have the specific know wot on their character page to take it meaning meks and painboys cant take the shield, but only big meks can?

Correct. If we wanted to give a Painboy a KFF, how would we know how many points it would cost him?

Know Wots is sort of a catch-all term for weird wargear, but not all of it is available to everybody.

Gotcha. Alright my first unit list is up so if you guys want to continue to help my noob ass out here is the link http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/659719.page

Okay, good summary. Quick question:

The Codex Orks allows only one relic per model.

Waaagh limits one type of each relic per army, can I take multiple Waaagh relics on a single Waaagh Boss or BM such as the Green Tide Boss?

 PipeAlley wrote:
Waaagh limits one type of each relic per army, can I take multiple Waaagh relics on a single Waaagh Boss or BM such as the Green Tide Boss?

Correct, they don't even replace weapons. Note that you don't get the option to take 'ordinary' relics in Waaaaagh! Detachments / Formations, so there's no mixing-and-matching between the two lists.