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For all the complaining about gaits, someone needs to re-watch old episodes of ST:Voyager. Kate Mulgrew was as awkward as hell. And I would never have described Mark Hamill in those days as an excellent actor.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Sining wrote: I've watched it and it's kinda mediocre.
Spoiler:
The new characters seriously need some fleshing out. Rey seems like a goddamn mary sue. Finn seems the most 'real' out of all the new characters.
Kylo needs to keep his mask on ALL the time. With it, he looks like a badass sith. Without it...more like pimply goth teenager.
The new 'death star' was facepalm-worthy. Seriously, yet another critical vulnerability near the surface that's easily accessible? Sure, why not -_- Also, it works by feeding off the sun but it doesn't seem to be able to move by itself since it's built into a planet. At which point, considering it only has TWO uses, it seems kinda stupid as a weapon. At least the original deathstar could move and shoot.
The Empire really really suffers from idiocy in this movie. The part where somehow Finn and Poe manage to escape from the imperial ship? That was pretty cringe worthy. Apparently all the TIE fighters are so easily accessible that anyone can just pop into one and steal one. Feels like Gundam.... I'm also disappointed in Phasma, who did NOTHING in the entire film. I thought she would be some badass stormtrooper, akin to Boba Fett or so on. Instead, she has shiny armor but is still as stupid as a normal stormtrooper.
I agree big time, but I hated Phasma in appearance. Plus if the First Empire is true to their roots
Spoiler:
she should be killed off for the reason she was the one who got the bigger and badder death star blown up. Not very loyal to her regime.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: For all the complaining about gaits, someone needs to re-watch old episodes of ST:Voyager. Kate Mulgrew was as awkward as hell. And I would never have described Mark Hamill in those days as an excellent actor.
Is it a gait to run like a duck (arms up in the air waddling forward?)? I'm not a Star trek fan, but if I was, and someone ran as clumsily as Rey does, I would hate their character too (assuming they are meant to be in a serious role).
When Mr Bean runs with arms up it's for comedic effect:
It "feels" like Star Wars and it "looks" like Star Wars.
As for Mary Sue
Spoiler:
the name of the movie is "the Force Awakens". I really don't think it's her going "hey, I'm a force user, time to manipulate people and fight with this light saber". It's the force using her.
I do appreciate that they came right out and acknowledged the giant deus ex machina: there is always a way to blow something up
Great movie, or I should say great Sci Fi movie, but as a Star Wars movie it's ok. In my opinion, Episode I is way way better than Episode VII. No matter what you think of the pre quells at least they were Star War movies.
Bad acting, wooden acting, people complained about this, but I thought it added to the "charm" that Star Wars was. While Episode VII had this, it also had some "real acting" that seemed out of place, not Star Warsy. If anything it seemed to me like Star Trek 90201 acting.
For all the ills that Episode I had and people complained, Episode VII had it but does it on a Micheal Bay scale.
Now for those who saw the movie what do you think of
Spoiler:
General Leia hugging Rey and ignoring and not consoling Chewie? This was more like passing the torch and to me left Liea a cold hearted dog in heat for ignoring Chewie when he really needed that hug.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
have a blue force dude come back and help her through, train her and guide her, rather than simply have her smile/eyes go funny then go nuts and complete every task?
It could have been done in a much better way. Instead we got the rushed version. They have 3 movies, they could make good use of those 3 movies to do a better adventure/progression.
Was it really any worse than sulky teenage farm boy shooting his way through the Death Star and being able to jump straight into an X-Wing taking out TIE Fighters while making the trench run and landing the shot that blows up the Death Star?
d-usa wrote: Was it really any worse than sulky teenage farm boy shooting his way through the Death Star and being able to jump straight into an X-Wing taking out TIE Fighters while making the trench run and landing the shot that blows up the Death Star?
It's almost like people go into an experience having already decided they won't like it and then hilariously produce really weird reasons to call the movie bad
d-usa wrote: Was it really any worse than sulky teenage farm boy shooting his way through the Death Star and being able to jump straight into an X-Wing taking out TIE Fighters while making the trench run and landing the shot that blows up the Death Star?
Yes, see back in the First/Second world war believe it or not boys got rushed into service (sometimes after only 1-2 practice flights). The way dog fights happen in Starwars are really similar to dog fights of that time period. It's not a huge leap.
Luke was allowed to escape the Death Star, Obi Wan was not allowed to escape, hence why Luke Escaped.
The other thing to consider, is Luke didn't do most of this on his own, he only managed to do it because his friends are in the mix. Han solo saved his life, Obi Wan guided him through mentoring and force whispering, arguably Darth Vader helped him out, he took out Tie Fighters while working with the other pilots.
Rey:
Spoiler:
Hoped into space junk and wasted 2 Tie Fighters, could talk to both droids and random aliens, could do Starwars "hacking" and used it to get through the Falcon Sequences, Fixed ships in a matter of seconds, defeated the bad guy with NO HELP at all and also knew all the force moves with again, no help whatsoever. The only thing Rey needed was Finn to get her off the planet (which she did most of the work on anyway), Fin to get her off the bigger death star (which she did most of the work anyway) and Han to give her a laser pistol.
I mean, Luke wasn't even a Jedi at the end of the movie, the force just guided him in one small step of that movie. it didn't
Spoiler:
turn him into a 1 person army that defeated any task in his path
.
Maybe im missing something, but the difference between the 2 movies is huge in this regard.
d-usa wrote: Was it really any worse than sulky teenage farm boy shooting his way through the Death Star and being able to jump straight into an X-Wing taking out TIE Fighters while making the trench run and landing the shot that blows up the Death Star?
It's almost like people go into an experience having already decided they won't like it and then hilariously produce really weird reasons to call the movie bad
I went in hoping for something awesome. Came out with average not bad. Huge difference, this is coming from someone who doesn't like a lot of movies.
Why is the movie good out of interest?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/18 04:25:06
Swastakowey wrote: arguably Darth Vader helped him out, he took out Tie Fighters while working with the other pilots.
what
His plan was to let them escape to track them to the base, hence why Luke and his buddies escaped. So I said arguably Darth Vader helped, but with non helpful intentions?
Davor wrote: Great movie, or I should say great Sci Fi movie, but as a Star Wars movie it's ok. In my opinion, Episode I is way way better than Episode VII. No matter what you think of the pre quells at least they were Star War movies.
Yeah, Episode I is totally a Star Wars movie because when I think Star Wars, I think trade disputes.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
d-usa wrote: Was it really any worse than sulky teenage farm boy shooting his way through the Death Star and being able to jump straight into an X-Wing taking out TIE Fighters while making the trench run and landing the shot that blows up the Death Star?
Luke has prior experience with high-speed canyon runs. He says this himself in the movie, right before the others look at him disbelievingly. And if you think that was bad, let's look at what Rey did
Spoiler:
Is an ace mechanic. Can instantly pilot spaceships with NO prior training whatsoever. Literally says 'I have no idea what I did' when called on it. Can use force persuasion and force telekinesis without being trained and then beat a trained sith in a duel. Wth? Also responsible for helping destroy new deathstar
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
Swastakowey wrote: arguably Darth Vader helped him out, he took out Tie Fighters while working with the other pilots.
what
His plan was to let them escape to track them to the base, hence why Luke and his buddies escaped. So I said arguably Darth Vader helped, but with non helpful intentions?
Hang on I am thinking of the Death Star assault, not the little trap.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 06:39:48
Heres my crazy theory ive been postin this in a feww different spots
Spoiler:
when kylo talks to the mask sometimes the manifestation of vader speaks back. think back to the end of jedi. in clonewars its established that Yoda/Qui/Obi all have trained to learn to post mortem manifest qui only partially and that anakin has learned some of this from them (at least enough to join them at the end of jedi) is it possible that Vaders negative interactions with the force including the "spiritual murder" of anakin have much darker repurcussions than previously understood? is this why kylo addresses is it as if it would respond?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 07:28:24
jeeb_sound wrote: Heres my crazy theory ive been postin this in a feww different spots
Spoiler:
when kylo talks to the mask sometimes the manifestation of vader speaks back. think back to the end of jedi. in clonewars its established that Yoda/Qui/Obi all have trained to learn to post mortem manifest qui only partially and that anakin has learned some of this from them (at least enough to join them at the end of jedi) is it possible that Vaders negative interactions with the force including the "spiritual murder" of anakin have much darker repurcussions than previously understood? is this why kylo addresses is it as if it would respond?
Or maybe Kylo is just crazy. He's certainly very unstable
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
It "feels" like Star Wars and it "looks" like Star Wars.
As for Mary Sue
Spoiler:
the name of the movie is "the Force Awakens". I really don't think it's her going "hey, I'm a force user, time to manipulate people and fight with this light saber". It's the force using her.
I do appreciate that they came right out and acknowledged the giant deus ex machina: there is always a way to blow something up
Let's be real about the whole Rey Thing here.
Spoiler:
I think it's pretty clear that she probably had some formal training at some point, and her memory was cleared or locked. I'm sure something will be relevaed about it over the course of the next two movies.
Also, Snoke is totally Darth Plageuis. Not only is he called "The Wise" but it plays the exact same music that was played in Episode III during Palpatines speech about Plageuis was played with Snoke
I'm disagreeing with many of the comments about Rey.
Spoiler:
Its established that she is a trained mechanic and pilot, though has never flown something the size of the falcon. - that wasn't her first choice of ship after all. It's also established that she been doing maintenance work on the Falcon for many years.
Her very first scene establishes her climbing skills, which is then used later in the film.
Sure she had never used a lightsaber before but if was again established at the start of the film that she was a skilled fighter at close combat.
Sure I could see the argument that she's too good at the force too soon, however, the force influencing her seems a very good theory.
And she did try several times with the force persuasion before it work.
The end of the fight is no different than Luke with the death star deus ex machina wise.
And finally, the film established that Kylo Ren is really a pretty damn terrible Sith that has never been properly challenged before by another force user. He is then sent away for further training at the end.
It isn't established she's a pilot at all. She flies a land vehicle, which hovers above the ground. She does not fly a starship. When asked about how she did all that stuff after flying by Finn, she says I have no idea. There's also no indication that she's ever done maintenance work on the Falcon. We know she's a mechanic and that she knows of the Falcon because it's been there at the junkyard for ages but she is not hired by the junkyard and merely sells them scrap for food. You're jumping to conclusions that she maintains the falcon.
She tried TWO times before the force persuasion worked. In like the span of two minutes. That's not even trying or training.
Kylo Ren isn't even a terrible Sith. He's pretty damn strong as it is. At the start of the film, he's able to sense AND stop a blaster bolt and freeze it in mid-air. That isn't something terribly weak force users can do.
She might have more force training but as it is, with her general lack of background and her OPness, she feels incredibly weak as a character. IMO, chars need flaws and Rey doesn't have one.
As for Luke, in the first film, Luke could barely deflect stunbolts, had to get Han's help to rescue Leia. Had to let Obiwan sacrifice himself just so they could escape. Nearly got killed by Vader before Han saved him again. His ONE heroic moment was at the end when he uses the force to get the correct timing to shoot a torpedo down a chute.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
It isn't established she's a pilot at all. She flies a land vehicle, which hovers above the ground. She does not fly a starship. When asked about how she did all that stuff after flying by Finn, she says I have no idea. There's also no indication that she's ever done maintenance work on the Falcon. We know she's a mechanic and that she knows of the Falcon because it's been there at the junkyard for ages but she is not hired by the junkyard and merely sells them scrap for food. You're jumping to conclusions that she maintains the falcon.
She tried TWO times before the force persuasion worked. In like the span of two minutes. That's not even trying or training.
Kylo Ren isn't even a terrible Sith. He's pretty damn strong as it is. At the start of the film, he's able to sense AND stop a blaster bolt and freeze it in mid-air. That isn't something terribly weak force users can do.
She might have more force training but as it is, with her general lack of background and her OPness, she feels incredibly weak as a character. IMO, chars need flaws and Rey doesn't have one.
As for Luke, in the first film, Luke could barely deflect stunbolts, had to get Han's help to rescue Leia. Had to let Obiwan sacrifice himself just so they could escape. Nearly got killed by Vader before Han saved him again. His ONE heroic moment was at the end when he uses the force to get the correct timing to shoot a torpedo down a chute.
Agree fully, and he only got the shot in the end through Obi Wans help and Han saved him from certain death. Every time Luke does something alone he loses (Alone on hoth = Wampa, Empire alone loses hand etc). The ONLY time he does something without help is defeat and convince Vader back, but even Vader does the rest.
Rey thus far has nothing like that, I would say it's a terrible character with no explanation. Maybe this will happen in the next movie? But that doesn't mean this movie doesn't suck as a result (well average anyway).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 09:52:31
Average. Better than Phantom Menace (not exactly a ringing endorsement! ) but nothing to write home about.
I missed a New Hope when it first came out, so imagine my surprise at getting to see it at the cinemas years later!
Death star. Check.
Plans hidden in a droid. Check.
Family issues. Check.
Lower the shields on super-duper weapon. Check...
JJ has taken two of Sci-Fi's biggest franchises...and done absolutely feth all with them.
The new star treks are decent films, and this is a decent film, but it will be a long time before I watch it again.
One thing's been bugging me about this, and now I now what it is: there is no time to reflect on chracters or what just happened.
It's relentless action scenes after another. I think JJ does this to cover up the plot holes.
It's constantly boom boom boom.
As for ambition, there is none. It is plain sailing, play it safe.
Before directing Star Trek first contact, Jonathon Frakes (Will Ryker) was told by studio bosses: "here's the car keys, don't crash the car."
And I honesty believe that Disney bosses told JJ the same thing. So desperate are they not to have another Phantom Menace, you just feel that they played it too safe.
Where's the originality? Hell, they may have well given the job to Lucas, I'm sure he could re-make his own film better than anybody!
They re-hashed a new hope, and the fethers killed Han!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
It isn't established she's a pilot at all. She flies a land vehicle, which hovers above the ground. She does not fly a starship. When asked about how she did all that stuff after flying by Finn, she says I have no idea. There's also no indication that she's ever done maintenance work on the Falcon. We know she's a mechanic and that she knows of the Falcon because it's been there at the junkyard for ages but she is not hired by the junkyard and merely sells them scrap for food. You're jumping to conclusions that she maintains the falcon.
Nope.
Spoiler:
She says she's a pilot when the FO attack -- note she even knows that the ship that is destroyed -- Quad something or other ?! -- is better than the Falcon.
Which she's fully conversant of the changes and modifications made by the various owners who had it since Solo lost it, and has opinions on how this affects the ship when if flies, which shows she's flown before -- even if not the falcon which, IIRC , hasn't flown for quite some time.
However the point about " flies a land vehicle, which hovers above the ground. does not fly a starship. " is of course a valid criticism of Luke in episode IV , and they happily let him fly an X-wing and give orders to actual pilots -- ones who don't turn off their targeting computers when the voice of their dead friend suddenly speaks to him.
.. I carry a little dream about writing a scene with his comms officer when that conversation goes on.
Spoiler:
She tried TWO times before the force persuasion worked. In like the span of two minutes. That's not even trying or training.
Spoiler:
Bit like Luke then then who tries all sorts of things with next to no/little training but manages to come through,
Plus we also have no idea of her lineage and/or training she had before.
Spoiler:
Kylo Ren isn't even a terrible Sith. He's pretty damn strong as it is. At the start of the film, he's able to sense AND stop a blaster bolt and freeze it in mid-air. That isn't something terribly weak force users can do.
Spoiler:
He is a weak sith as he is plagued by doubt and isn't sure he's strong/good enough to do what he needs to do.
If anything -- given his failure with most of his force abilities in the rest of the film -- one would suggest it's the laser bolt being stopped that is anomalous rather than anything else.
In other issues :
Spoiler:
Would Han and Leia really call their son Ben ? If you look at it Han maybe knew Ben for 1 day or so ? Which nearly got him killed. Leia never even met him -- birth aside perhaps .
So that struck me as a bit weird. Luke I'd understand doing it -- maybe.
Also I'm still unsure as to how.why Chewbacca is actually called that ..?
It's a bit odd that he -- and others of his race from what we've seen before -- would have names that they appear to physiologically incapable of pronouncing no ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 11:21:21
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Average. Better than Phantom Menace (not exactly a ringing endorsement! ) but nothing to write home about.
I missed a New Hope when it first came out, so imagine my surprise at getting to see it at the cinemas years later!
Death star. Check.
Plans hidden in a droid. Check.
Family issues. Check.
Lower the shields on super-duper weapon. Check...
JJ has taken two of Sci-Fi's biggest franchises...and done absolutely feth all with them.
The new star treks are decent films, and this is a decent film, but it will be a long time before I watch it again.
One thing's been bugging me about this, and now I now what it is: there is no time to reflect on chracters or what just happened.
It's relentless action scenes after another. I think JJ does this to cover up the plot holes.
It's constantly boom boom boom.
As for ambition, there is none. It is plain sailing, play it safe.
Before directing Star Trek first contact, Jonathon Frakes (Will Ryker) was told by studio bosses: "here's the car keys, don't crash the car."
And I honesty believe that Disney bosses told JJ the same thing. So desperate are they not to have another Phantom Menace, you just feel that they played it too safe.
Where's the originality? Hell, they may have well given the job to Lucas, I'm sure he could re-make his own film better than anybody!
They re-hashed a new hope, and the fethers killed Han!
In relation to your last point, this was done i think for 2 reasons.
1, they had wanted to do this in Jedi, as Harrison felt it aded more gravitas, Lucas disgreed. Kasdan is a better writer than Lucas, especially when it comes to toning down some of the dafter ideas, Empire was better as a result, so i agree with this decision.
2. It acts as a great tone setter for Kylo, here is a lad who has some serious issues, famous parents, but has apparently actively chosen to turn to the dark side (seen speaking to vaders helmet, asking for help as he is conflicted by the light, what he means is, 'help ne get rid of the light' Killing his father makes him into a much darker charachter, redemption seems unlikely this time.
However, i do wonder if Ep 8 is going to have a bit of looking into the past a bit, maybe 5 years or so, just to flesh out whats happened and give more context.
as a whole i went 8.5 out of 10, mainly as its ANH and some ideas form 5+6 but with some interesting avenues to go down, and sets us up nicely.
The big difference between ANH and TFA, we know there are going to be 3 films this time, in 1977, Star wars had to be completely within its own film, closing all the threads as much as possible.
Average. Better than Phantom Menace (not exactly a ringing endorsement! ) but nothing to write home about.
I missed a New Hope when it first came out, so imagine my surprise at getting to see it at the cinemas years later!
Death star. Check.
Plans hidden in a droid. Check.
Family issues. Check.
Lower the shields on super-duper weapon. Check...
JJ has taken two of Sci-Fi's biggest franchises...and done absolutely feth all with them.
The new star treks are decent films, and this is a decent film, but it will be a long time before I watch it again.
One thing's been bugging me about this, and now I now what it is: there is no time to reflect on chracters or what just happened.
It's relentless action scenes after another. I think JJ does this to cover up the plot holes.
It's constantly boom boom boom.
As for ambition, there is none. It is plain sailing, play it safe.
Before directing Star Trek first contact, Jonathon Frakes (Will Ryker) was told by studio bosses: "here's the car keys, don't crash the car."
And I honesty believe that Disney bosses told JJ the same thing. So desperate are they not to have another Phantom Menace, you just feel that they played it too safe.
Where's the originality? Hell, they may have well given the job to Lucas, I'm sure he could re-make his own film better than anybody!
They re-hashed a new hope, and the fethers killed Han!
In relation to your last point, this was done i think for 2 reasons.
1, they had wanted to do this in Jedi, as Harrison felt it aded more gravitas, Lucas disgreed. Kasdan is a better writer than Lucas, especially when it comes to toning down some of the dafter ideas, Empire was better as a result, so i agree with this decision.
2. It acts as a great tone setter for Kylo, here is a lad who has some serious issues, famous parents, but has apparently actively chosen to turn to the dark side (seen speaking to vaders helmet, asking for help as he is conflicted by the light, what he means is, 'help ne get rid of the light' Killing his father makes him into a much darker charachter, redemption seems unlikely this time.
However, i do wonder if Ep 8 is going to have a bit of looking into the past a bit, maybe 5 years or so, just to flesh out whats happened and give more context.
as a whole i went 8.5 out of 10, mainly as its ANH and some ideas form 5+6 but with some interesting avenues to go down, and sets us up nicely.
The big difference between ANH and TFA, we know there are going to be 3 films this time, in 1977, Star wars had to be completely within its own film, closing all the threads as much as possible.
Naturally, I disagree.
Spoiler:
It was play it safe, middle of the road stuff from JJ. He was clearly under Disney orders not to feth it up! As a result, he stayed in his shell, unable to express himself with even an original thought. Hell, if I wanted to watch a new hope, I could have stayed at home.
Another death star? Come on!
Secret plans hidden in R2? We've been here before.
And Skywalker? By the beard of Zeus, Mark Hamill spent more time on the red carpet than he did in the film!
I never thought I's say this, but bring back George Lucas
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Average. Better than Phantom Menace (not exactly a ringing endorsement! ) but nothing to write home about.
I missed a New Hope when it first came out, so imagine my surprise at getting to see it at the cinemas years later!
Death star. Check.
Plans hidden in a droid. Check.
Family issues. Check.
Lower the shields on super-duper weapon. Check...
JJ has taken two of Sci-Fi's biggest franchises...and done absolutely feth all with them.
The new star treks are decent films, and this is a decent film, but it will be a long time before I watch it again.
One thing's been bugging me about this, and now I now what it is: there is no time to reflect on chracters or what just happened.
It's relentless action scenes after another. I think JJ does this to cover up the plot holes.
It's constantly boom boom boom.
As for ambition, there is none. It is plain sailing, play it safe.
Before directing Star Trek first contact, Jonathon Frakes (Will Ryker) was told by studio bosses: "here's the car keys, don't crash the car."
And I honesty believe that Disney bosses told JJ the same thing. So desperate are they not to have another Phantom Menace, you just feel that they played it too safe.
Where's the originality? Hell, they may have well given the job to Lucas, I'm sure he could re-make his own film better than anybody!
They re-hashed a new hope, and the fethers killed Han!
In relation to your last point, this was done i think for 2 reasons.
1, they had wanted to do this in Jedi, as Harrison felt it aded more gravitas, Lucas disgreed. Kasdan is a better writer than Lucas, especially when it comes to toning down some of the dafter ideas, Empire was better as a result, so i agree with this decision.
2. It acts as a great tone setter for Kylo, here is a lad who has some serious issues, famous parents, but has apparently actively chosen to turn to the dark side (seen speaking to vaders helmet, asking for help as he is conflicted by the light, what he means is, 'help ne get rid of the light' Killing his father makes him into a much darker charachter, redemption seems unlikely this time.
However, i do wonder if Ep 8 is going to have a bit of looking into the past a bit, maybe 5 years or so, just to flesh out whats happened and give more context.
as a whole i went 8.5 out of 10, mainly as its ANH and some ideas form 5+6 but with some interesting avenues to go down, and sets us up nicely.
The big difference between ANH and TFA, we know there are going to be 3 films this time, in 1977, Star wars had to be completely within its own film, closing all the threads as much as possible.
Naturally, I disagree.
Spoiler:
It was play it safe, middle of the road stuff from JJ. He was clearly under Disney orders not to feth it up! As a result, he stayed in his shell, unable to express himself with even an original thought. Hell, if I wanted to watch a new hope, I could have stayed at home.
Another death star? Come on!
Secret plans hidden in R2? We've been here before.
And Skywalker? By the beard of Zeus, Mark Hamill spent more time on the red carpet than he did in the film!
I never thought I's say this, but bring back George Lucas
I am not totally disagreeing, i did have similar thoughts to what you have said.
However it was entertaining, it did what everyone wanted it to do, look and feel like star wars, bit of fan service, and well made with a decent story.
Episode 8 is where it gets interesting, this is where they could feth it up, i am hoping for a bit of familiarity, BUT the Kylo\Rey\solo's and skywalkers thing will be shaken up a bit.
I also felt it was a bit rushed, and some of the humour fell a bit flat, but film adventure films have changed a bit since 1977, Marvel stuff has made the feel of things bleed into star wars, not that thats terrible, i enjoyed the humour, but some stuff was a bit off.
I did prefer it to all of the prequels though, as this film had the one thing the prequals were missing, pace! This film moved along at a good lick (some scenes could have lingered longer, but i didnt feel like anything went on too long or too over the top.
the big one for this was the Kenobi\Anakin lightsaber duel in Ep3, started well but went into daft levels after 2 minutes, and i just wanted it to end.
EDIT to add: A note on starkiller base\DS Mk3. The theme of Nazi's in space actually makes this a sound plot theme, basically the nazi's (Hitler) loved a super weapon, in WW2's case, tanks.
The tanks created by Germany were better in most ways than the allies for a long time, but as they had issues with new engines, technical glitches etc, they were hampered.
However Hitler believed strongly that bigger was better and would be unstopable, so he had tabks designed that were bigger and stronger, even during the final months of the war, they were drawing up plans to buld tanks big enough to carry battleship guns.
The largest ever made was the Maus, a tank almost half as big again as the king tiger, only 2 made and while it was almost impregnable, it was big, slow and heavy, and air power could kill it with impunity.
There were designs for a Rat tank which was a bigger Maus, and the Landkreuzer 1000 which was over 5 times the size of the Maus, had a ship turret on it and 2 barrels.
The thing would never have worked, it would have needed special roads built just to drive on because it would have been so heavy, and again, air power would have flattened it.
The point is, Hitler carried on with throwing cash into these things, when he should have been making more of the tried and tested things like the Tiger 2, FW 190's, and the new ME 262 jet. These things could have if not won the war, made it much much harder for the allies.
In this case i can see wht the First order built the SK base, assuming a weapon so powerful, you win in one go almost, and with the resistance not having enough clout to stop it, why not. Of course Plot Hero armour, put paid to that. But i can see why they would do it.
Again, episode 8 is where they will have to get original or it will be a bit silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 13:32:09
Average. Better than Phantom Menace (not exactly a ringing endorsement! ) but nothing to write home about.
I missed a New Hope when it first came out, so imagine my surprise at getting to see it at the cinemas years later!
Death star. Check.
Plans hidden in a droid. Check.
Family issues. Check.
Lower the shields on super-duper weapon. Check...
JJ has taken two of Sci-Fi's biggest franchises...and done absolutely feth all with them.
The new star treks are decent films, and this is a decent film, but it will be a long time before I watch it again.
One thing's been bugging me about this, and now I now what it is: there is no time to reflect on chracters or what just happened.
It's relentless action scenes after another. I think JJ does this to cover up the plot holes.
It's constantly boom boom boom.
As for ambition, there is none. It is plain sailing, play it safe.
Before directing Star Trek first contact, Jonathon Frakes (Will Ryker) was told by studio bosses: "here's the car keys, don't crash the car."
And I honesty believe that Disney bosses told JJ the same thing. So desperate are they not to have another Phantom Menace, you just feel that they played it too safe.
Where's the originality? Hell, they may have well given the job to Lucas, I'm sure he could re-make his own film better than anybody!
They re-hashed a new hope, and the fethers killed Han!
In relation to your last point, this was done i think for 2 reasons.
1, they had wanted to do this in Jedi, as Harrison felt it aded more gravitas, Lucas disgreed. Kasdan is a better writer than Lucas, especially when it comes to toning down some of the dafter ideas, Empire was better as a result, so i agree with this decision.
2. It acts as a great tone setter for Kylo, here is a lad who has some serious issues, famous parents, but has apparently actively chosen to turn to the dark side (seen speaking to vaders helmet, asking for help as he is conflicted by the light, what he means is, 'help ne get rid of the light' Killing his father makes him into a much darker charachter, redemption seems unlikely this time.
However, i do wonder if Ep 8 is going to have a bit of looking into the past a bit, maybe 5 years or so, just to flesh out whats happened and give more context.
as a whole i went 8.5 out of 10, mainly as its ANH and some ideas form 5+6 but with some interesting avenues to go down, and sets us up nicely.
The big difference between ANH and TFA, we know there are going to be 3 films this time, in 1977, Star wars had to be completely within its own film, closing all the threads as much as possible.
Naturally, I disagree.
Spoiler:
It was play it safe, middle of the road stuff from JJ. He was clearly under Disney orders not to feth it up! As a result, he stayed in his shell, unable to express himself with even an original thought. Hell, if I wanted to watch a new hope, I could have stayed at home.
Another death star? Come on!
Secret plans hidden in R2? We've been here before.
And Skywalker? By the beard of Zeus, Mark Hamill spent more time on the red carpet than he did in the film!
I never thought I's say this, but bring back George Lucas
I am not totally disagreeing, i did have similar thoughts to what you have said.
However it was entertaining, it did what everyone wanted it to do, look and feel like star wars, bit of fan service, and well made with a decent story.
Episode 8 is where it gets interesting, this is where they could feth it up, i am hoping for a bit of familiarity, BUT the Kylo\Rey\solo's and skywalkers thing will be shaken up a bit.
I also felt it was a bit rushed, and some of the humour fell a bit flat, but film adventure films have changed a bit since 1977, Marvel stuff has made the feel of things bleed into star wars, not that thats terrible, i enjoyed the humour, but some stuff was a bit off.
I did prefer it to all of the prequels though, as this film had the one thing the prequals were missing, pace! This film moved along at a good lick (some scenes could have lingered longer, but i didnt feel like anything went on too long or too over the top.
the big one for this was the Kenobi\Anakin lightsaber duel in Ep3, started well but went into daft levels after 2 minutes, and i just wanted it to end.
Nothing wrong with action scenes, but they need moments of quiet to be able to reflect and absorb the action that went before it. If you constantly get action scene after actually scene...then they lose their vividness.
Point Break and Aliens, are two of the greatest action films of all time IMO, because they know when to stop and talk, and they know when to jump to warpspeed.
You need that balance.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/18 13:49:58
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2015/12/18 13:50:13
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I went out and had to think for a long time if I liked what I had just seen or not.
Overall, I would say JJAbrams did a very good job, considering the expectations he had to face.
Awesome fan-service? Check!
Bringing back the old "it is a vast and dirty, grimy universe, and jedi are something special!"-feeling that George Lucas killed so efficiently with Episode I-III? Check!
Hommage to the old characters while building up new ones? Check!
Cool action? Check!
Open questions? Check!
But then again....
- MAJOR SPOILERS ahead:
Spoiler:
NEGATIVES:
- What I did not like was that the movie was essentially a rehash of Episode 4. Was that necessary? I do not think so.
- I also did not like that while the movie is (too) full of fan service in terms of direct quotes, analogue scenes and lots of original props, it does too little to get people up to date on the original characters. For example: Leia was supposed to be a jedi by now. Instead she is General Granny. I know Carrie Fisher's face is essentially frozen, thanks to years of medication. But:
- The chemistry between her and Han Solo was almost non-existent.
- Death Star 3 almost single-handly de-legitimized the whole project.
- Why bother with Captain Phasma? Like, at all? Just switch of the shields? A total opportunist? And where did she go? I am sure she will play a bigger role in Episode VIII but come ON!
- And General babyface Hux? Seriously, that guy vs. Moff Tarkin... Totally delegitimized the whole organization - and the Nuremberg rally scene.
->They should not have called in "Starkiller base" but "Space College" with all the squabbles between young male adults...
- And while the death of Han Solo makes a lot of sense in hindsight - how can you build up new characters when the old ones still steal the show, plus, Harrison Ford's health does not bode well for many more movies with him - the reasons for Kylo Ren's turn to the dark side or his inner conflicts/the family conflicts are so superficially scraped that the whole scene - to me - had no emotional impact besides the "Oh no, they really kill Han Solo!" meta-pain... I know, Episode VIII will answer a lot of that (supposedly) but still, story telling could have been better.
- the pacing is too fast and the story telling boringly sequential (1.2.3.4.5.6...)
- Minor quib: The new Emperor loooks like an oversized Gollum.
- Also: Poe Dameron? Good pilot, no identification. Deus ex machina, as well. Talk about taking short-cuts (or cutting out minor storylines for the extended Bluray version...)
POSITIVES:
- What I really liked were the characters of Finn (although I am interested where his character will/can still go) and Rey (great cast - and I was very critical of her choice beforehand),
- her (re-)introduction into the Force,
- the questions left open (so many movies bore me to death with giving everything away/spelling everything out),
- as a stand alone movie it works well enough. It is a very nice scifi action movie with nice characters, lots of things to look at and a down-to-earth-feeling. As the opening of a trilogy / quadrilogy / quintilogy it will work much better a) in its extended version and b) in hindsight.
- the Awesome Props! The inside of the Millenium Falcon gave the movie more realism and grittiness than any of the action scenes.
- The humour!
- It is much more Star Wars than Episode 1-3 were, but mostly by look and feel, the story-telling lacks most of the epos, so far (it could be felt in the end, though, so I have hopes for the following episodes)
UNDECIDED:
Is Babyface Goth a good choice as Kylo Ren?
The movie smells like an Extended Version will be coming our way next year which will explain a lot more. I am going to buy it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 13:51:20
6000 - Emperors Scepters
8000 - Splinter fleet arzak 
9500 - 2nd Company Classic 
5000 points UAD/N.Munda 7th/8th/9th 
Inquisitorial Deatchments, Arbites/Beret Troopers: 1K 
Craftworld Altansar: 3k 
40IK - PP Conversion Project Files
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
) but nothing to write home about.
