I think the big difference we're seeing in TFA isn't that it's not an adventure movie, but rather that it's an adventure movie with a more modern take. Lots of aspects of the film include what would probably be considered very trendy in pop culture. As much as Luke was a product of at the time classic heroes like Flash Gordon and Han Solo to Buck Rodgers, Finn and Rey are also throw backs, but to more modern type heroes/heroines. Rey is very much a product of Katniss Everdeen or Clarke Griffin style survivor girls. Watching Finn and listening to him is like reading a page out of Percy Jackson. You try telling me you watched Poe in the first scene and didn't instantly think of Maverick
Kylo Ren reminded me very quickly about halfway through the film of characters like Murtangh or Draco Malfoy. BB8 is more 'high tech' in his design than R2D2, or C3PO. There was a concerted effort in the film I think to try and redo A New Hope but using reference points that would be more applicable to the new millennium. Rather than throwing back to Flash Gordon, Dune, John Carter, or Buck Rodgers the film is trying to call back to a newer age of heroes and heroines using the Star Wars formula and elements.
TFA is different from the Prequels or the
OT, but not because it's an action movie (they're
all action movies), but rather that it has much more modern cinematography and elements. Maybe that's a throw off, and that's fine, but what were you really expecting? No one was going to make this movie using a time machine back to the 70's to film it as if they were filming a movie 50 years ago. It's 2015, and the film was always going to reflect that. If anything, I'd say
JJ's style is better suited to Star Wars than to Star Trek.
Ah I didnt realize this conwciously until just now, now I can understand, specifically, why the movie is so off. I wouldnagree with everything until your last couple sentences. The identity of Star Wars is just as much an element of the filmmaking style used to make it as it is any of the plot elements etc.
Haven't seen the film yet so cannot comment on it, but I heard from a friend at my gaming club that Disney is pulling the licences for all existing Star Wars RPGs like Fantasy Flight Games because they "aren't official Disney Canon".
Ive been curious about this, as they have been heavily pulling from the "legends" continuity, and everything is supposed to be canon nowadays. Im wondering what will happen to Xwing/Armada as well.
It seems like history keeps repeating itself in this universe and the natural conclusion will be a break in the cycle.
Indeed, breaking the cycle was the point of RotJ, although a mysteries being known as the "
JJ" decided otherwise and forced the cycle back into play.
Snoke also has to be Darth Plaugeis, otherwise it would be silly. The dark side has a very focused linear path from master to apprentice. He has to have been Palpatine's Master or else it makes no sense. Also would explain why he is old as dirt as he has transcended death.
Snoke and Kylo are never referred to as Sith, they could be an entirely new dark side tradition.
Actually it is a coincidence for the reason that Vader just so happened to attack and capture the Rebel ship carrying the plans as it was passing over Tatooine. So out of how many star systems in the galaxy with how many light years between them and they just so happen to end up stopping over the planet where Luke and Obi-Wan are?
But thats not a coincidence. Leia is trying to get the plans to Obi-Wan, who is in hiding on Tattooine keeping an eye on Luke. Vaders Star Destroyer chased the Tantive IV across the galaxy and finally caught up with the ship over Tatooine.
The darth jar jar was pretty much confirmed by Jar Jars voice actor, the character artist who created the concept and Lucas himself due to the confirmation of "massive rewrites" due to backlash.
Source? Ive never seen anything that confirms this, just quotes taken out of context and people grasping for nonexistant plot connections.
string of coincidences which lead through episode 1, which seemingly at the time, was written to be at the direction of an unseen force, and Palpatine having a master
I never really felt that there were any coincidences in the prequel films, everything is explained within the films, and many of the things people label as "coincidence" are things that only seem as such if you assume that the
OT is written in stone/is subject to some sort of temporal feedback loop with the prequels.
The characters arriving on Tattooine, for example, is not really a coincidence, because they have no relationship with the planet or its inhabitants, and the later films havent happened yet and are, temporally speaking, subject to change until other events over the course of the films, etc makes them permanent and inevitable. We also dont really know that Anakin *is* the chosen one (technically speaking he never really does bring proper "balance" to the force), so the existence of a strongly force sensitive child on the planet is in and of itself not reaply a coincidence or even really all that noteworth within the wider contexf of the lore.
All 3 prequels reek of manipulation at the hand of the unseen master, and Palpatine thinking he is smarter and more in control than he is.
Was Palpatine/Sidipus not the unseen master?
Actually it is. Leia isn't going to Tatooine to get Obi-Wan. Her mission is to deliver the plans to her father on Alderaan so that they may be passed to the Rebellion. Stopping to go to Tatooine on the way, just in case Obi-Wan happens to still be there, just delays the Rebels analysis of the Death Star plans and gives the Empire more time to use the Death Star and/or recover the plans.
Leia had a cover story for visiting Alderaan, she's a member of the imperial senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan. She has no such cover for visiting Tatooine. If it had been the plan to go to Tatooine to collect Obi-Wan all along then perhaps her cover story would include a visit to Tatooine?
Leia's message to Obi-Wan was recorded as her ship was about to be boarded by Imperial troops. It was a hail mary play, not a carefully constructed plan.
This is incorrect. Her mission was to retrieve Kenobi because they needed his help to destroy the death star, and then take him to Alderaan along with the plans. This changes when she is captured, as she needs Kenobi to take the plans himself as she is no longer able to.
I know it's Star Wars. Slavish respect for the laws of physics isn't exactly required. But this is less a matter of bad science and more a case of borked sense of scale. That scene made the entire Star Wars universe seem incredibly small.
The entire film made the galaxy seem pretty small
tbh.
Luke is not interchangeable, nor is the map to his location. Any other plot device would radically alter not just the story, but the character arcs and the reaction from the audience.
Accept he is. If you cut the last 5 minutes or whatever out of the film, it doesnt really change anything at all about the rest of the film. Luke has already trained Kylo well before the film began, so within the context of the film he isnt relevant in that regard. We, the audience, already know that he has vanished, our desire to know what happened to him doesnt make him not a mcguffin, as the film could have been fully realized without him ever being discovered, instead allowing that event to take place in a future film. Rey doesnt exactly need Luke, not yet anyway, so again, not relevant to the context of the film. Likewise, Kylo seems interested in killing or capturing Luke, rather than finding him specifically. As he does none of those things within the film itself, again, Luke isnt really relevant. Again, Luke could be a ham sandwich, and the entire plot makes sense. Maybe its a mystical ham sandwich that kmbues the person who eats it with unimaginable power or something, it doesnt really matter, because the ham sandwich doesnt actually do anything throughout the film except be a ham sandwich.
Given the extra information we have regarding luke being the only jedi left to our knowledge he is unfortunately indespensible to the plot of the series regarding the training of rey. So yeah... not really a McGuffin. Again even if he were it would be no different than the Death Star Plans...
Except hes really not. Luke is a plot point and not anything beyond that. As the last jedi he provides no training or mentorship or leadership, etc within the film. He doesnt save the day or provide dialogue or actually do anything within the film. In fact, given Reys sudden capabilities to use the force, its not even really clear she needs to be trained at all.
Contrast this to the Death Star plans, the existence of which is vital for the entire back half of ANH to occur.
Simply because the form of star wars has changed slightly, and only slightly in the case of ANH2, i mean TFA does not make it less of star wars.
Its more than just slightly...
Clearly you don't understand space operas, more so you didn't watch the same movie if you had you wouldn't have clearly missed the entire romance between Fin and Rey and the melodrama through out the entirety of the film... Good job sir film critic good job.
You think Finn and Rey had a romance going on? Thats adorable. I never got anything more than "were just really excited to finally have friends". Contrast this to ANH wherein both Luke and Han take a clear interest in Leia, though she essentially rebuffs them both but seems to take a bjt of a liking to Luke (which is awkward considering later revelations). And I didnt ever grt a sense of melodrama, none of it, nor the key players, are really "exaggerated" which is a key requirement for melodrama (the possible exception being Poe who comes across as larger than life). The rest of the characters all come across as all too believable and real.
Alright, good glad we're on the same page, clearly you have not watched this film, maybe you have seen it but you clearly weren't paying attention.
Then kindly fill in the archetypes for me. The only character that really fits is Han Solo as the mentor/sage (complete with his necessary death at the hands of Kylo), however for several reasons he doesnt quite fulfill this role, primarily because the mentorship he provides Rey is essentially contrary to her destined path (in fact at least once he tries to pull her off that path by offering her a spot on the falcon crew, and his general mentorship is as a mechanic rsther than a jedi).
..yup... didn't watch ANH. What exactly is ANH about if it's not about stopping the Super weapon that is the death star by getting the death star plans to the rebellion fleet?
Right, stopping the superweapon is different from finding the plans. The plans stop being relevant halfway through the film becsuse they have been delivered, allowing the heroes to utilize them to defeat said superweapon in the films final act. Hugely different.
You also didn't watch TFA. The map quickly takes the sidelines and was never really at the fore front of anyones mind or attention past the first 3rd of the movie... Was it important yes, was it all important no there were a myriad of shifting priorities through out the movie.
Definition of a mcguffin courtesy of wikipedia:
"In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin or maguffin) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist pursues, often with little or no narrative explanation. The specific nature of a MacGuffin is typically unimportant to the overall plot.
The most common type of MacGuffin is an object, place, or person ; other, more abstract types include money, victory, glory, survival, power, love, or some unexplained driving force.
The MacGuffin technique is common in films, especially thrillers.
Usually the MacGuffin is the central focus of the film in the first act, and thereafter declines in importance. It may re-appear at the climax of the story, but sometimes is actually forgotten by the end of the story. Multiple MacGuffins are sometimes derisively identified as plot coupons.[1][2]"
Key parts bolded. Thank you for proving my point for me by saying:
The map quickly takes the sidelines and was never really at the fore front of anyones mind or attention past the first 3rd of the movie.
It seems *you* are the one who didnt actually watch the film.
Why are you even debating with me? Im allowed to think that
JJ Abrams did Star Wars wrong. I can at least explain it, which iz more than I can say for some of the codescending responses Ive received sayi g "Im wrong because Im wrong".
GL has implied it as well, both in how he walked away from the premier giving the media and
JJ the cold shoulder, and through some of the obvious backhanded compliments hes offered the film:
"I think the fans are going to love it. It’s very much the kind of movie they’ve been looking for."
Thats the complete quote, he never says he liked it, and we already know what he thinks of the fan expectations courtesy of the drama around the prequel films.
I spent 16 years of my life obssessing every day over star wars... You probably haven't got more time under your be
Bro, I got 10 yesrs of obsessing on you. Hell, it sounds like ive been obsessing before you were even *born*.
Just go educate yourself on star wars, then comeback after you actually watch TFA.
Adorable. I sat in a theater for 20 hours doing the entire 7 movie AMC marathon just so I could be amongst the first to see it. That doesnt include the hours I spent on line so I could get some of thd best seats in the house. Having watched the prior 6 films immediately before TFA, the differences and problems are quite jarring (as are the very obvious references and parallels), I suggest you give it a try.
You really do not see how coincidental it is for the droids to abandon ship to tattoine after dealing directly with a sith lords daughter only to meet that same sith lords family and pit that sith lords son on a path against the sith lord.
Its not really all that coincidental. The droids abandon ship over tattoine for a reason. The sith lords daughter is on the ship for a reason. The sith lord captures her for a reason. The sith lords son/family is on tattooine for a reason. He ends up pitted against the sith lord for a reason. The underlying current is that this may or may not be the force acting in mysterious ways.
Contrast this with Rey having been left on Jakku (which is itsslf forgivable as this will no doubt be a plot point in a future film) - the site of the final battle between the Republic and the Empire no less - and later, alongside Finn, finding the long-lost Millenium Falcon on the same planet after it had been stolen and/or sold a half dozen times, and taking off in the ship at the exact right moment that Han happens to be in the same system visiting the same planet for reasons which arent really ever explained. Yes, this also has the undercurrents of "thd force works in mysterious ways", but unlike in ANH its sntirely random and arbitrary and lacks the internal logic of ANH, which is sad because it would have needed all of 2 or 3 lines of dialogue to correct. Really its a big issue with the film in general - it needs a few simple lines of unspoken dialogue to fill in a lot of holes and make the film into a fully realized and cohesive story.
Push comes to shove here's the definition of coincidence:
1.a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection.
2. correspondence in nature or in time of occurrence
bolded. I hope you can see the casual connections ive pointed out.
Now I'm not saying there aren't motivated reasons for the events to have happened. But for all the players in ANH to have come together on Tattoine after being seperated for years from eachother, unwittingly related, unknowingly connected by blood and allegiances, and all end up fighting with one another and alongside eachother... That's a pretty damn big coincidence.
Except the casual connection surrounding all the events that led up to this. The point I am making is that within the context and internal logic of the films all of these events happen for a reason, whereas things such as Solos appearance at Jakku is seemingly random. Yes, I have no doubt that this will at some point be explained/retconned, but I am critiquing this film as a coherent plot, and
JJ Abrams as a film maker specifically, and these are his failures.
Why did Han and Leia break up? Where's Luke?Who the hell are the new republic? The resistance? The order? and so on.
To be fair some of these are briefly explained within the film itself. Whether they are adequate sxplanations is a different story.
You know that someone is trying to be evil when he only wears a mask to hide that in reality, he's an angsty teenager
Except hes pretty clearly not a teenager
My point is given the flash back in TFA and the probable return of a dead character we can feesibly conclude there is a probability of more flashbacks for the purposes of exposition.
Dont forget its a Disney film, if Marvel is anything to go by (and indeed the film has a lot in common with the marvel film template) theres a good chance that Han isnt actually dead (though t h given the options I hope he is).
~2800 points 
