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Oops. You guys are right. I was talking about the flying specifically but the film shows IMO pretty explicitly that Rey's seen the inside before.

So-and-so did this but I disagreed. That's why she knew what was holding the hyperdrive back.

Saw it today.

Enjoyed it very much. Lots of it was predictable and I wasn't really surprised by anything, but it was entertaining. Ended up liking Finn and BB-8 a lot more than I thought I would!

People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

Kylo Ren really isn't all that skilled with a light sabre. He's powerful, and brutal, but he hacks and slashes with no finesse. If he went up against Luke Skywalker, I think he'd lose. When he destroyed the New Jedi Order, he had the backing of a squad from the Knights of Ren.

He fights the way a complete novice in the real world would fight with a (metal) broadsword.

Rey actually seemed a little more skillful, because she has the transferable skills from teaching herself to use a staff. But she herself was (probably) self trained, and wasn't that much better than Kylo.

This was more Luke Skywalker vs Vader at Cloud City, than Anakin vs Obi Wan at Mustafar, or Obi Wan and Qui Gonn Jinn vs Darth Maul at Naboo.

There are no true, fully trained Jedi left in the Galaxy now. There is no Jedi Order left to pass on the ancient teachings and secrets of light sabre combat.

Even Luke Skywalker himself was never fully trained, and it showed in his relatively simplistic duels with Darth Vader, compared to the duels of past generations of Jedi in their prime at the height of the Republic (Obi Wan, Qui Gonn, Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Mace Windu, Palpatine et al). Luke had the impossible task of rebuilding the Jedi Order from scratch, and failed.


Oh, and the coolest part about the fight was all the trees getting chopped down.

Wait, there's doubt that Rey worked on the Falcon?

She tells plenty of stories to Han about all the stupid things the junkyard bloke did to the Falcon, most of the time explicitly against her advice.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

Kylo Ren really isn't all that skilled with a light sabre. He's powerful, and brutal, but he hacks and slashes with no finesse. If he went up against Luke Skywalker, I think he'd lose. When he destroyed the New Jedi Order, he had the backing of a squad from the Knights of Ren.

He fights the way a complete novice in the real world would fight with a (metal) broadsword.

Rey actually seemed a little more skillful, because she has the transferable skills from teaching herself to use a staff. But she herself was (probably) self trained, and wasn't that much better than Kylo.

Rey's technique is pretty gakky as well. She spends most of her time parrying Kylo's strikes and all of her offensive is poorly timed jabs and broad swings. Like it's been mentioned before by myself and others, she spent a majority of fight running from Kylo Ren; something that is kind of lost when watching it with all the excitement a first time viewing has.

Well, I think Luke could beat most of the prequel jedi as when the prequel jedi were spinning their lightsaber behind their back for no reason he'd just run them through

Not to mention how many times the prequel jedi are completely flat footed as they perform these moves, meaning one shove and they'd be on their back. Which makes sense, it's hard to twirl your lightsaber behind your back when you're in a position that actually gives you an effective centre of balance, such as en garde.

Luke's fighting style may be simplistic but at least it makes sense and is effective. The amount of energy and time that the prequel jedi waste in their fights doing stupid little flourishes which serve no purpose is infuriating. I reckon the only reason the lightsaber got a reputation of being difficult to use was because the jedi kept impaling themselves as they tried to perform somersaults whilst twirling their lightsaber around

Just saw it. It was ok but not mind blowing or anything. Just tuned in here to see if other people thought Rey was Luke's daughter. Seems some do. It was hard to follow all those flashbacks/visions she had. I was thinking maybe Kylo Ren spared here because she was his cousin. I seriously thought the movie was going to end with Luke saying "Rey, I am your father" just like Vader back in the day.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I don't get what this First Order is. Seems like JJ really wanted to preserve that Imperial-Rebel dynamic so bad it doesn't really make sense. Like if the New Republic is in power wouldn't the First Order be the resistance now? Yet for some reason the resistance has a resistance against it.

Perhaps the Galaxy has been partitioned in someway and the First Order is the legal goverment of some other section of the Galaxy and The Resistance is foreign sponsored rebel group within their territory?

I'm pretty sure Luke will get an "I am your father" moment at some point.

The "It belonged to him, his father, and now is calling to you" dialogue when we first see Luke's sabre seems to suggest she's in the Skywalker line.

She also grew up scounging a meagre existence on a desert world, just like Luke and Anakin

 Alex C wrote:
I'm pretty sure Luke will get an "I am your father" moment at some point.

The "It belonged to him, his father, and now is calling to you" dialogue when we first see Luke's sabre seems to suggest she's in the Skywalker line.

She also grew up scounging a meagre existence on a desert world, just like Luke and Anakin

Ya that lady did make a big deal about making sure Rey got it.

I just hope she is his daughter. If not, she is just an over the top Mary Sue. So hopefully she is a Skywalker.

I hope her real name isn't Rey. Its stupid and easy to confuse with Kylo Ren (people in this thread seem to use Rey and Ren interchangeably). Maybe Rey is short for a longer name.

But I'm hoping she's really called Jaina.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I hope her real name isn't Rey. Its stupid and easy to confuse with Kylo Ren (people in this thread seem to use Rey and Ren interchangeably). Maybe Rey is short for a longer name.

But I'm hoping she's really called Jaina.

Jaina would work too.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

I mean, Snoke himself says 'it's time to bring him back to complete his training'. He's not fully trained, that that is evident in a few ways, like his childish hissy fits when things don't go his way. Another is, quite simply, his sabre technique. It's just not good.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

I mean, Snoke himself says 'it's time to bring him back to complete his training'. He's not fully trained, that that is evident in a few ways, like his childish hissy fits when things don't go his way. Another is, quite simply, his sabre technique. It's just not good.

Kylo explicitly begs Snoke for training after failing to mind probe Rey. I get the impression he's been neglected by his 'master'.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I hope her real name isn't Rey. (...) Maybe Rey is short for a longer name.

According to the Visual Dictionary book, the helmet she has on Jakku belonged to Captain Dosmit Ræh of the Tierfon Yellow Aces.

Pretty interesting stuff...

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
My only problem was the Starkiller base. As for super weapons it's too closely related to a Deathstar. A big round death ball with extremely fatal design flaw. Not to mention a star would go supernova and then collapse if you "vacuumed" off the outer layers. I also guess the SW universe is able to move a whole planet via hyperspace? JJ needs to lay off the super impossible science a bit. I know Star Wars is more Space Opera than Sci-fi but take it back a notch JJ. just my opinion.

As for the ship argument I really don't care about differences with: T-65 vs. T-70, or Tie vs. Tie mk 2. Where the hell where the A-wings, B-wings, Interceptors...etc.?

Given the stupidity that the EU contained, a planet sized Deathstar is hardly a major offender. Not when there used to be fighters capable of blowing up stars and space otters having fist fights with Han Solo.


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 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Perhaps the Galaxy has been partitioned in someway and the First Order is the legal goverment of some other section of the Galaxy and The Resistance is foreign sponsored rebel group within their territory?

That kinda what it appears to be.

The Empire and the Republic have split the galaxy and are technically at peace. The Resistance and the First Order are smaller factions which are supported by the Republic and Empire to fight each other without all out war(though with the Republic crippled with what happened who knows what will happen now)

I love the star wars movies but as they drag on it seems the names are just getting dumber. When I hear "Snoke", I think of Snoop Dog appearing in the holoscreen; For shizzle homie, toke up on that bisnitch and smoke that jedi fool already. Snoke out.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
My only problem was the Starkiller base. As for super weapons it's too closely related to a Deathstar. A big round death ball with extremely fatal design flaw. Not to mention a star would go supernova and then collapse if you "vacuumed" off the outer layers. I also guess the SW universe is able to move a whole planet via hyperspace? JJ needs to lay off the super impossible science a bit. I know Star Wars is more Space Opera than Sci-fi but take it back a notch JJ. just my opinion.

As for the ship argument I really don't care about differences with: T-65 vs. T-70, or Tie vs. Tie mk 2. Where the hell where the A-wings, B-wings, Interceptors...etc.?

Given the stupidity that the EU contained, a planet sized Deathstar is hardly a major offender. Not when there used to be fighters capable of blowing up stars and space otters having fist fights with Han Solo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Perhaps the Galaxy has been partitioned in someway and the First Order is the legal goverment of some other section of the Galaxy and The Resistance is foreign sponsored rebel group within their territory?

That kinda what it appears to be.

The Empire and the Republic have split the galaxy and are technically at peace. The Resistance and the First Order are smaller factions which are supported by the Republic and Empire to fight each other without all out war(though with the Republic crippled with what happened who knows what will happen now)

I heard no mention of the Empire so that seems to be truly dead.

Why would The Republic be crippled? Wasn't that just a some star system? It wasn't Corusant was it? I think I remember them mentioning how a lot of their fleet is there but still I can't imagine their entire military is in one system.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

I mean, Snoke himself says 'it's time to bring him back to complete his training'. He's not fully trained, that that is evident in a few ways, like his childish hissy fits when things don't go his way. Another is, quite simply, his sabre technique. It's just not good.

If by not good you mean non existent. Calling it a technique is generous.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
My only problem was the Starkiller base. As for super weapons it's too closely related to a Deathstar. A big round death ball with extremely fatal design flaw. Not to mention a star would go supernova and then collapse if you "vacuumed" off the outer layers. I also guess the SW universe is able to move a whole planet via hyperspace? JJ needs to lay off the super impossible science a bit. I know Star Wars is more Space Opera than Sci-fi but take it back a notch JJ. just my opinion.

As for the ship argument I really don't care about differences with: T-65 vs. T-70, or Tie vs. Tie mk 2. Where the hell where the A-wings, B-wings, Interceptors...etc.?

Given the stupidity that the EU contained, a planet sized Deathstar is hardly a major offender. Not when there used to be fighters capable of blowing up stars and space otters having fist fights with Han Solo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Perhaps the Galaxy has been partitioned in someway and the First Order is the legal goverment of some other section of the Galaxy and The Resistance is foreign sponsored rebel group within their territory?

That kinda what it appears to be.

The Empire and the Republic have split the galaxy and are technically at peace. The Resistance and the First Order are smaller factions which are supported by the Republic and Empire to fight each other without all out war(though with the Republic crippled with what happened who knows what will happen now)

I heard no mention of the Empire so that seems to be truly dead.

Why would The Republic be crippled? Wasn't that just a some star system? It wasn't Corusant was it? I think I remember them mentioning how a lot of their fleet is there but still I can't imagine their entire military is in one system.

Um, the Empire was most definitely mentioned. Snoke is referred to as the Supreme Leader of it. Coruscant is not the hopeworld of the New Republic, that system was destroyed in the movie.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

A novice defeating a trained, experienced professional is one reason I see her as a Mary Sue.

Rey's only 'failing' in the entire film is when Ren captures her, which is arguably just a set up to show how bad ass she is. She doesn't get beaten up by tusken raiders. She doesn't get accosted in the cantina. She doesn't need to be saved from the trash monster. She doesn't require Han to cover her ass. Nor does she require someone to bust her out of her cell. Rey beats up her attackers. She breezes through the cantina right to the mcguffin. The beasts that get loose (saving Hand and Chewie) never grabs her- she rescues Finn. She even lines up her pursuer with a broken cannon. She even saves Solo from that nasty compressor malfunction on the Falcon. That's before you even bring her force powers into it.

Contrast her with Finn. Poor Finn, who doesn't understand what anyone is staying, who can't fly anything, doesn't have a clue which tool is which let alone how to fix any of the problems and can't even hit the pursuing TIEs until Rey lines it up for him. Who gets his butt kicked by Rey and then later a stormtrooper and of course Ren. Who wants to run away and hide as soon as he can. He needs to be saved first by Poe, then by Rey (no, you take my hand!) on the ground, by Rey in the Falcon and then by Rey from the monsters. And of course by Han when defeated by the stormtrooper and once more from Kylo Ren by Rey.

Basically next to Rey, Finn just sucks. His one 'impressive' feat is only being seriously wounded and not dying to Ren. He does nothing even remotely comparable to her feats.

Finn is pretty awesome with a blaster though. He mows down his fellow stormtroopers at Maz's castle. He also did a pretty awesome job while Poe was flying the TIE fighter (except when he stopped paying attention to argue about not going back to Jakku).

Besides, I don't know how many more times it can be said, but Kylo Ren was not a trained, experienced professional.

Could that be because, ultimately, Finn is the 'audience surrogate' in the film?

Or in other words, Finn is The C-3PO of 'The Force Awakens.'

@dreadwinter he's the Supreme Leader of The First Order.

Yes, Rey does sound like a Skywalker. You're pretty much describing almost what Luke did in Episode 4 Kojiro.

 Kojiro wrote:

Basically next to Rey, Finn just sucks. His one 'impressive' feat is only being seriously wounded and not dying to Ren. He does nothing even remotely comparable to her feats.

He rescues Poe and gets BB8 back to the resistance. If he hadn't been there, Rey would have been killed by stormtroopers, BB8 would have been acquired by the First Order and then Ren and a load of Stormtroopers would have shown up on Lukes island of solitude.

The only reason Rey survived is because Finn was there to warn her that the First Order was coming for the droid and that it had to be returned to the resistance. Without that warning she would've been killed in the marketplace.

He knows the weakness of the weapon, the interior layout, helped Han get inside, stood up to Kylo Ren and saved Rey (who according to some was never saved by anyone), got Chewbacka back to the Falcon, treated his injuries, got the drop on Chromedome.

His "failings" are pretty much what you would expect from someone who was raised from childhood to do one thing and one thing only.

 Kojiro wrote:
A novice defeating a trained, experienced professional is one reason I see her as a Mary Sue.

But Kylo Ren is not trained, or at least he's not well trained - his light sabre technique is atrocious, just wild hacking and slashing like he's swinging an axe. Luke Skywalker is a poor teacher. By Return of the Jedi, he was still essentially a Padawan with a handful of years experience. He was still far from a Master Yoda, or Master Kenobi.

And theres no reason (yet) to assume that Kylo Ren has a great deal of experience. We don't yet know how big Luke's New Jedi Order was, or how skilled the rest of his apprentices were, but I think it's unlikely that any of them were master swordsmen, so its not like Kylo's already proven himself by besting master Jedi swordsmen. At best, he massacred a group of novice Jedi and amateur swordsmen at a skill level similar to his own. And crucially, it appears he had the support of the Knights of Ren who may possibly be a group of Force Sensitives. At the very least, they represent the Elite troops of the First Order, probably answering only to Supreme Leader Snoke himself.

and can't even hit the pursuing TIEs until Rey lines it up for him.

To be fair, the gun was damaged and could no longer be moved. Before it was damaged he did actually destroy a couple TIEs.


As for Rey...where you see a Mary Sue good at everything, I read between the lines and see a powerful Force Sensitive, who was almost certainly a Jedi Padawan "youngling" (possibly undergoing accelerated training), who trained herself from a young age to fight and survive in a hostile environment. Neither Kylo nor Rey were highly trained professionals.

 d-usa wrote:
He knows the weakness of the weapon, the interior layout, helped Han get inside, stood up to Kylo Ren and saved Rey (who according to some was never saved by anyone), got Chewbacka back to the Falcon, treated his injuries, got the drop on Chromedome.

But... but... Rey is a Mary Sue!

His "failings" are pretty much what you would expect from someone who was raised from childhood to do one thing and one thing only.

 d-usa wrote:
He knows the weakness of the weapon, the interior layout, helped Han get inside, stood up to Kylo Ren and saved Rey (who according to some was never saved by anyone), got Chewbacka back to the Falcon, treated his injuries, got the drop on Chromedome.

His "failings" are pretty much what you would expect from someone who was raised from childhood to do one thing and one thing only.

He wielded a light sabre and held off a Dark Jedi. Pretty god damn impressive for a non Force Sensitive, especially considering how the EU lore has always stressed that only Force Sensitives can safely wield a light sabre in combat and everyone else are more likely to kill themselves.

 Kojiro wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
People here say Rey is a Mary Sue because she was instantly adept with a light sabre and was able to beat a 'fully trained Sith'. But thats not at all the impression I got.

A novice defeating a trained, experienced professional is one reason I see her as a Mary Sue.

Rey's only 'failing' in the entire film is when Ren captures her, which is arguably just a set up to show how bad ass she is. She doesn't get beaten up by tusken raiders. She doesn't get accosted in the cantina. She doesn't need to be saved from the trash monster. She doesn't require Han to cover her ass. Nor does she require someone to bust her out of her cell. Rey beats up her attackers. She breezes through the cantina right to the mcguffin. The beasts that get loose (saving Hand and Chewie) never grabs her- she rescues Finn. She even lines up her pursuer with a broken cannon. She even saves Solo from that nasty compressor malfunction on the Falcon. That's before you even bring her force powers into it.

Contrast her with Finn. Poor Finn, who doesn't understand what anyone is staying, who can't fly anything, doesn't have a clue which tool is which let alone how to fix any of the problems and can't even hit the pursuing TIEs until Rey lines it up for him. Who gets his butt kicked by Rey and then later a stormtrooper and of course Ren. Who wants to run away and hide as soon as he can. He needs to be saved first by Poe, then by Rey (no, you take my hand!) on the ground, by Rey in the Falcon and then by Rey from the monsters. And of course by Han when defeated by the stormtrooper and once more from Kylo Ren by Rey.

Basically next to Rey, Finn just sucks. His one 'impressive' feat is only being seriously wounded and not dying to Ren. He does nothing even remotely comparable to her feats.

You are glossing over a lot of things from the movie. In the beginning, when Rey and Finn meet, Finn is basically pulling Rey around the camp to keep her from getting killed.

Kylo is not an experienced professional. He is also injured twice before he fights her.

Finn single handedly saved Poe from the First Order. He also handles himself well in multiple fights with a lightsaber. He mans the Tie Fighters turret as well as the turret on the Millenium Falcon, only needing Rey to help in targeting when his turret is damaged by blaster fire.

Finn actually does a lot of impressive things in the movie, such as single handedly starting the entire plot to the movie by assisting in the escape of Poe.....