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 Asherian Command wrote:


I have refuted that claim.

You have certainly not refuted the claim. You have pointed out superficial differences at best. To quote myself from earlier:

A child of destiny on a desert planet that doesn't know she can use the Force, caring for a droid holding important information looking for its former master while the empire is after it, escaping said desert planet on the Falcon, leading to a series of events where Han once again infiltrates an imperial base that happens to be a planet destroying super weapon, culminating in a final attack by a few pilots to exploit an absurd vulnerability in said super weapon. You pointing out irrelevant little details, like Rey not having a mentor (she clearly didn't need one), does not make this any less a remake of A New Hope.

Saying the she was instantly trusted by the resistance to go and find Luke is a bit of a stretch.

Once R2 revealed the rest of the map anybody could've gone, so it's not like she was taking the only map and so if anything happened then Luke was lost forever.

She was chosen by Lukes own lightsaber. Who among the resistance is really going to argue with that. Also, Chewie is going along as well.

We are just getting stuff reposted now from pages ago, why can't people read the thread?

Just posting an image, with no text or anything, is something that is frowned on here. Put more effort into your posts

 d-usa wrote:
We are just getting stuff reposted now from pages ago, why can't people read the thread?

Because people are lazy and think their opinions are just their own and only shared by them?

Since the 'Sue' complaints and disagreement has been discussed to death I will talk about the rest of the movie.

I did actually like kylo ren very much. Yes he's emo but that works for a bad guy. It helps us dislike him a bit and make him a bad guy you can dislike like his daddy issues. It's like if annoying Anakin just skipped up to the darth vader scene. Not to mention he just seems infinitely cooler with the mask on. He also never killed his officers to my knowledge. Darth vader probably killed more imperial officers than all rebel assassins combined which really hurt imperial leadership in my opinion and thus would only lead to more officers being force choked (which frankly is such an absurd method of punishment since officers take time and training and you tend to want your brains to be alive and loyal enough). The new force powers were also pretty freaking cool. We've seen the light side do mental suggestions but the dark side is forcing info out of people which is very cool (the dark side tends to be less subtle but I've never seen something that could be used outside of battle like torture and it totally works with the dark side). I don't think anybody should really call kylo ren a noob (low skill level) for all the powers we have thus far seen. I mean he has displayed the ability to stop blaster shots mid-flight which is a massive step up from deflecting them with your light saber. The other new power suggests he's more than just a fighter as well.

Also as much as people complain about the no women or often minorities as decent star wars character let me discuss something else. How many women, minorities and even aliens end up being the bad guys in star wars? For aliens it's mostly the crime lords and maybe thrawn (even if expanded universe is now non-canon). Look at the imperial side in the original trilogy or either of the 2 warring faction in the prequels. Do you see any women on the bad guys sides? The answer is no. This movie changed that as well. Sure women can be the hero but they can also be bad guys. Funny thing is the main baddies are still emo white guys but whatever. At least Finn's unit commander was female (and enjoys chrome and copying boba fett's style) and some various random pilots and such were female (rebels and I think 'first order' both had this). I'm thankful that to an extent we've at least accepted if you can have women as the main good guys then you can have them as bad guys too (something star wars fans never discuss). I'm taking a wild guess it's because the older audience used to have issues with violence against women but clearly everything was negative towards women in 'star wars' *rolls eyes* (at least according to some).

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Since the 'Sue' complaints and disagreement has been discussed to death I will talk about the rest of the movie.

I did actually like kylo ren very much. Yes he's emo but that works for a bad guy. It helps us dislike him a bit and make him a bad guy you can dislike like his daddy issues. It's like if annoying Anakin just skipped up to the darth vader scene. Not to mention he just seems infinitely cooler with the mask on. He also never killed his officers to my knowledge. Darth vader probably killed more imperial officers than all rebel assassins combined which really hurt imperial leadership in my opinion and thus would only lead to more officers being force choked (which frankly is such an absurd method of punishment since officers take time and training and you tend to want your brains to be alive and loyal enough). The new force powers were also pretty freaking cool. We've seen the light side do mental suggestions but the dark side is forcing info out of people which is very cool (the dark side tends to be less subtle but I've never seen something that could be used outside of battle like torture and it totally works with the dark side). I don't think anybody should really call kylo ren a noob (low skill level) for all the powers we have thus far seen. I mean he has displayed the ability to stop blaster shots mid-flight which is a massive step up from deflecting them with your light saber. The other new power suggests he's more than just a fighter as well.

Also as much as people complain about the no women or often minorities as decent star wars character let me discuss something else. How many women, minorities and even aliens end up being the bad guys in star wars? For aliens it's mostly the crime lords and maybe thrawn (even if expanded universe is now non-canon). Look at the imperial side in the original trilogy or either of the 2 warring faction in the prequels. Do you see any women on the bad guys sides? The answer is no. This movie changed that as well. Sure women can be the hero but they can also be bad guys. Funny thing is the main baddies are still emo white guys but whatever. At least Finn's unit commander was female (and enjoys chrome and copying boba fett's style) and some various random pilots and such were female (rebels and I think 'first order' both had this). I'm thankful that to an extent we've at least accepted if you can have women as the main good guys then you can have them as bad guys too (something star wars fans never discuss). I'm taking a wild guess it's because the older audience used to have issues with violence against women but clearly everything was negative towards women in 'star wars' *rolls eyes* (at least according to some).

Honestly, it's just standard SJW complaining, posturing and hijacking of established franchises. It's what they do. Like female space marines.

If anything I think the star wars series has included the whole british people are evil (or at least white british men are evil) theme. I dunno how british people feel about it but I'm guessing they're used to it by now. Least if you get a role you should try to have fun with it even if you're the bad guy. Seriously if you're a bad guy be the most 'tying damsels to railroad tracks', 'mustache twirling' and evil plan with evil laugh villain you can be.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I dunno how british people feel about it but I'm guessing they're used to it by now. Least if you get a role you should try to have fun with it even if you're the bad guy.

It's been noted...




But then again, Obi Wan... And now, Rey and Finn.

 Compel wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I dunno how british people feel about it but I'm guessing they're used to it by now. Least if you get a role you should try to have fun with it even if you're the bad guy.

It's been noted...




But then again, Obi Wan... And now, Rey and Finn.

I was partially commenting on it after seeing that commercial (so I saw it before you showed it just now). I mean some british people are good guys but it is one of those nearly complete bad guys are brits movie series.

I could only really tell that Rey was british. I think the rest hid their accents. Perhaps your accent is evil. Still can't stand the way you guys say 'lieutenant'. It's not spelled like 'left-enaunt' so don't pronounce it like it is.

I think it still makes a point though. If you're accent is british and you're a white male in a movie then there's a good chance you're a bad guy.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
. Still can't stand the way you guys say 'lieutenant'. It's not spelled like 'left-enaunt' so don't pronounce it like it is. .

You would need to take that complaint to the French, rather than the Brits...

I think it's because, generally, accents from the UK tend to be seen as having authority and gravitas in cinema.

Generally speaking, these are two qualities that people generally want to see in villains because it gives a sense of 'this is the real deal, this is a threat.'

But it is also the same qualities you want to see in a Reasonable Authority Figure. So, they usually end up being from the British Isles too.

Like Liam Neeson, Sir Alec Guinness and Ewan MacGregor.

Sorry for linking you to TV Tropes. I'm afraid your evening is now gone.

Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

 d-usa wrote:
We are just getting stuff reposted now from pages ago, why can't people read the thread?

It seems the thread grows more heated with each repitition of the opposing sides ideas.

For myself, even though there were many moments in the movie that had me raising an eyebrow, I overall liked it and decided to let the story play out over the course of the three movies. I expect all the loose ends and questions will be taken care of by then, so instead of trying to shred the movie, I think it would be more fun and productive to try to guess where the writers are trying to take the story.

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
We are just getting stuff reposted now from pages ago, why can't people read the thread?

It seems the thread grows more heated with each repitition of the opposing sides ideas.

For myself, even though there were many moments in the movie that had me raising an eyebrow, I overall liked it and decided to let the story play out over the course of the three movies. I expect all the loose ends and questions will be taken care of by then, so instead of trying to shred the movie, I think it would be more fun and productive to try to guess where the writers are trying to take the story.

I hope we get to see Admiral Thrawn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

I hope we get to see our first storm-trooper badass jedi! I would love to see that. A storm-trooper armor jedi wielding a green lightsaber.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
I think it's because, generally, accents from the UK tend to be seen as having authority and gravitas in cinema.

Generally speaking, these are two qualities that people generally want to see in villains because it gives a sense of 'this is the real deal, this is a threat.'

But it is also the same qualities you want to see in a Reasonable Authority Figure. So, they usually end up being from the British Isles too.

Like Liam Neeson, Sir Alec Guinness and Ewan MacGregor.

Sorry for linking you to TV Tropes. I'm afraid your evening is now gone.

DANG YOU TV TROPERS! GET OFF ME LAWN!

To be fair, in the prequels it was Japanese lizard men that were evil D:

Basically they were the Tau if you think about it, since they have a similar look, has various allies some of which look like Vespids, and rely heavily on drone/droid technology.

 Formosa wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

I think it was just pretty obvious that something was wrong with Finn compared to all the other stormtroopers as he was just standing there, staring at Ren. He wasn't even pretending to shoot at some of the civilians in order to remain inconspicuous.

I hope that Finn doesn't get revealed as a force sensitive. You need a "normal" person in the fighting to give it some flavour. Once you start making everyone Jedi, you remove the feeling that a jedi is special or rare.

Plus, once you make someone a jedi it raises the bar of what is considered badass for that character to do, as they now have increased abilities. As an example it was badass that Finn was able to hold off Ren for a brief time but if he were a jedi it would be pretty pathetic if he got taken down that fast.

They could go the more interesting route of making him force sensitive but not wanting to be a Jedi or any form of dark side user, just someone who has it and wants to get on with his life.

They're already playing with force useage with Kylo Ren, who so very much wants to fall completely to the dark side but is struggling with the light side in him.

While I agree you need some kind of regular guy in there, they could easily expand Poe into that role. Then you have regular guy Poe, Chewie and force sensitive but doesn't care Finn off doing things for the Resistance and Rey off training to be a Jedi with Luke.

Was anybody else sad to see
And did anyone else think general ackbar just looked creepy? ...lol

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

I think it was just pretty obvious that something was wrong with Finn compared to all the other stormtroopers as he was just standing there, staring at Ren. He wasn't even pretending to shoot at some of the civilians in order to remain inconspicuous.

I hope that Finn doesn't get revealed as a force sensitive. You need a "normal" person in the fighting to give it some flavour. Once you start making everyone Jedi, you remove the feeling that a jedi is special or rare.

Plus, once you make someone a jedi it raises the bar of what is considered badass for that character to do, as they now have increased abilities. As an example it was badass that Finn was able to hold off Ren for a brief time but if he were a jedi it would be pretty pathetic if he got taken down that fast.

Force sensitive doesn't mean jedi, fella could just be sensitive to the force and that's what caused his moral issues, I know Disney has stated that e.u isn't canon anymore, but it's not there universe, it belongs to the public, I hold there opinion on the same level as any of yours, and e.u has force sensitives that are not jedi.

We have a non-Jedi force sensitive in the movie: Leia

 Formosa wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

I imagine due to the conditioning that most stormtroopers give off a sort of uniform, emotionless vibe, or at least much suppressed. Whatever vibe they're all the same.

Finn on the other hand has broken free of his conditioning (though we're told later by Phasma he did report for reconditioning...) and is experiencing the fear and horror of what's going on. So in a sea of uniform indifference, he's a beacon of fear. At least that's how I see it.



Also, just to ask. WHY are droids not built to speak basic? They clearly understand it and R2 at least can emit spoken audio...

 Kojiro wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks fin is force sensitive, when kylo looks at him at the start of the film I got the impression he sensed something other than "stormtroopers acting weird" it would also explain a lot of fins actions.

I imagine due to the conditioning that most stormtroopers give off a sort of uniform, emotionless vibe, or at least much suppressed. Whatever vibe they're all the same.

Finn on the other hand has broken free of his conditioning (though we're told later by Phasma he did report for reconditioning...) and is experiencing the fear and horror of what's going on. So in a sea of uniform indifference, he's a beacon of fear. At least that's how I see it.



Also, just to ask. WHY are droids not built to speak basic? They clearly understand it and R2 at least can emit spoken audio...

Digital language is maybe more efficient when Communicating with other druids? That or its "kewl"

People are still reposting that Rey-Luke graphic? I went through that a couple pagesago addressing each argument one by one explaining why I thought they were mostly false equivalences, misrepresentations and premature assumptions. If people are still persisting with that graphic, the least they can do is respond to my counterargument.

Okay so having seen it for the second time I'd like to give some more thoughts on the film and Rey in particular. To those who have only seen it once (especially those with strong feelings on the character either way) I highly suggest seeing it a second time now that the initial excitement of seeing a new Star Wars film has abated. Anyways, having paid extra attention to Rey, I'm really beginning to condescendingly wonder if those of you in the 'Mary Sue' camp even saw the same movie as the rest of us. I'd like to take a minute and break down her character actions and arc.

Firstly, I think comparing Rey to Luke as a character is kind of stupid. They fill the same ROLE in the story as the hero archetype, but their characters are kind of inverted to the point that wondering why one was able to do X while the other wasn't is completely inappropriate. Luke is portrayed in ANH as largely unskilled (until he needs to pilot an x-wing, when he becomes a fighter ace despite only popping womp rats in a T-16 but whatever, it works), naive and - after a VERY brief moment of doubt - highly motivated to become a jedi, see the galaxy and be a part of great things.

Rey hits a couple of these, but in different ways. She is introduced as being physically capable and knowledgeable with technology because of the fact that she lives in a space fantasy mining town that subsides off old Imperial wrecks. She makes a living spelunking up and down a busted star destroyer, and basically resides in Mos Eisley, where thievery and exploitation are shown to be a part of life. This is opposite to Luke, who fumbles through the cantina like the farm boy he is. It therefore makes sense when she awkwardly manages to fight off the two thieves who try to take BB-8, hell she's probably been doing that since she was a girl. I might also add that if she were truly a Mary Sue, that gross alien who owns the comp'ny general store would be paying her huge amounts of 'portion' and wondering aloud how she manages to make such miraculous finds.

Rey also has a naivety to her. She goes wide eyed upon meeting Han and believes Fin's a resistance fighter despite no evidence to support his claim. Here she has common traits with Luke in that she is a naive desert dweller down on her luck. This is where the two divert again, in their reasons for getting involved in the main narrative.

Luke gets involved equally because his relatives are killed as well as his general adventurous streak. Note that Luke doesn't follow Obiwan because of revenge for their murder, but because there's nothing left for him on Tatooine. He wants excitement. Yes, he wants to hit back at the Empire, but mostly he wants to see what's beyond those two suns he saw when he was looking ovre the dunes while John Williams rocked the feth out.

Contrast that with Rey going out because of her morality, despite her fear of leaving Jakku and being alone.

Rey shows that she has a strong sense of moral obligation that she follows regardless of whether or not in impacts her negatively. She rushes out to rescue BB-8 and reluctantly allows him to stay with her because she knows he has no where else to go. She turns down the opportunity to get out of the spelunking game for who knows how long and eat water bread because giving up BB-8 to the junker wouldn't be right. At the same time, she's scared shitless of being alone. Where Luke realized there was nothing left for him on Tatooine, Rey is unable to accept that and would rather grow into an old woman (remember that scene where she's cleaning the tech and looks over to see this old ass woman doing the same?) in servitude than put her neck out. This fear bites her in the ass later in the movie, and leads directly to consequences like being captured. Its the main obstacle in her character arc.

Let's be clear, this is a flaw. Granted, it's not a very deep flaw, but its very much a Star Wars-y flaw. All you have to do is look at ANH for other examples. Luke's flaw is that he's TOO eager to get in the action, Leia's flaw is that shes TOO unwilling to give up the rebellion or compromise, Han is TOO much a charming swashbuckler.

So Rey is capable and determined but inwardly fearful, while Luke is relatively inexperienced, but motivated and outwardly headstrong. We good? Okay, lets look at Rey's actual deeds in the film (the ones many say reveal her as just the greatest that has every done anything).

Except she spends most of the movie running away, scared shitless (as do the other characters) until they manage to overcome obstacles as a team. BREAK IT DOWN.

1: Falcon Escape.
Honestly, where this idea that she's better than Han at flying the Falcon comes from I have no idea. Most of the escape is her crashing the ship into the ground. She does a cool maneuver at the end but her and Fin work as a team to fight off the TIEs. She doesn't get out if Fin doesn't have the gun covered. It establishes the two as a team that works well together and that she's competent in the cockpit. It also begins the theme of implying that she's force sensitive (as if some sort of force is awakening, if you will).

2: Han Solo's Discount Space Monster Delivery
Remember when Rey has the bright idea to close the blast doors and then feths it up, almost killing everybody? Remember how when she sees the Reptars, or whatever? She's terrified stiff and needs Fin to literally yank her back into action in a nice counterweight to the hand-holding scene on Jakku. This is not how Mary Sue characters act. She succeeds in correcting her mistake, again with obvious hints toward force sensitivity so that the nerds wouldn't pee themselves when she uses the force in the end. This is character competence, it is not an author insert. Again, she isn't Luke. She's much more capable.

After this scene she reiterates TWICE (once on the Falcon, once in the conversation of the job offer with Han that offended some of you despite the fact that he made the EXACT SAME OFFER TO LUKE in ANH) that she has to go back to Jakku, again because she's scared and stubborn.

3: Rey gets captured because of the character faults I just listed
How Mary Sue of her. The Force and that orange alien lady (I call her Gamblor) basically tell her she's a Jedi. The force acid trip even ends with the classic Obiwan line of "taking your first steps" into a larger world. Gamblor tells her Luke's saber literally chose her and gives her the tutorial on how to access the force (more on this later). Her response is to throw a tantrum and run scared into the woods. Because of this Kylo corners her and easily captures her (after a moment of running the feth away and missing him with the blaster). Rey shows more fear in this scene than Luke does in all of ANH, but I said the characters shouldn't be compared so I'll leave it at that.

Its also worth mentioning that around here Rey shoots her first stormtrooper, fumbling with the blaster despite her earlier over confidence. Its interesting to note that she is the only character in any star wars movie to have brief moment of stupefied reflection upon taking a human life. Contrast with Luke mowing down rows of Stormtroopers on the Death Star despite having previously been a moistu- okay I'll stop comparing them, I swear. Either way, its a nice little character touch.

4: Rey begins to come to terms with her flaws and overcome them, nerds cry
The interrogation scene is pretty cool. In this Rey begins to finally overcome the fear that has crippled her ability to grow, and meshes it with her dogged determination in order to be the sci fi action hero of the space wizard movie and defeat the baddies. She's no longer petrified by Kylo and can stand up to him, also she opens up to the force instead of running from it like she did at Gamblor's.

Sooo she again uses her competency to escape, so the feth what? So the force awoke in her and she used her growing power to trick James Bond into letting her out of the sex chair, who cares? Did you throw this much of a fit when Tony Stark built a robot suit in an Afghan cave? At the very least you called it silly, I highly doubt you took to the internet to call him a Mary Sue.

The rage is even dumber when you consider that she only manages to escape because of Fin. This is a big character moment between the two and a nice pay off to Fin freaking the feth out when she's captured after Gamblor's place is destroyed (which is, I think, a great moment too) how you guys forgot it, I dont know. The point is that the sequence shows that 1) Rey has overcome her fear, her power is growing and she is improving in competency and 2) she still requires the community around her to succeed and the other characters who support her.

5: The Lightsabre fight that launched a thousand hashtags.
You know what happens, she picks up Luke's sabre after Kylo demolishes Fin (rewatch it, its a lot more one sided than your nerd rage remembers). In her face at that moment you see the culmination of her character. She's very clearly still afraid and uncertain, but she's got that determination that has driven her through the whole narrative and has now overcome her doubt. Her moral obligation to save her friends and do whats right has trumped all her instincts to run away. She's ready to kick ass. Hell yeah.

Then she spends most of the fight running the feth away while clumsily poking at Kylo.

Rey is very clearly outmatched from the get go. She tries to fight, but it isn't going well. Finally, Kylo has her on the ropes and is about to finish her when his hubris makes him vulnerable. Rey takes the initiative, not because she magically became Darth Maul with a sabre, but because she finally accepts the force into her soul or whatever, the exact way Gamblor told her to earlier when she freaked out and ran away (down to the eye closing and everything). Even with the force as her ally, she only barely manages to beat him. Frankly its an awesome fight and totally works within the context of Star Wars or action movies in general. Ever wonder how Captain America became so good at fighting despite never really being trained? I mean, the serum didn't Neo him and download kung fu skills into his brain,did it? Then again he had a dong so whatever.

If anything, the real question of that scene is how did they not instantly freeze to death once the sun had been extinguished by the dumb super death star?

Droid talk: it's a question that has long been asked and the consensus seems to be that astromech droids are not really intended to spend a lot of time away from whatever their job is and don't really have much of a reason to talk to people otherwise. R2 is really just designed to be jacked into the X-Wing and be a mechanic/computer mix. He can talk to Luke via the screen of the X-Wing and talk to the X-Wing since they are both computers. Despite their habit of doing so in the movies, they don't routinely go around and hang out with their humans.

 nullBolt wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Since the 'Sue' complaints and disagreement has been discussed to death I will talk about the rest of the movie.

I did actually like kylo ren very much. Yes he's emo but that works for a bad guy. It helps us dislike him a bit and make him a bad guy you can dislike like his daddy issues. It's like if annoying Anakin just skipped up to the darth vader scene. Not to mention he just seems infinitely cooler with the mask on. He also never killed his officers to my knowledge. Darth vader probably killed more imperial officers than all rebel assassins combined which really hurt imperial leadership in my opinion and thus would only lead to more officers being force choked (which frankly is such an absurd method of punishment since officers take time and training and you tend to want your brains to be alive and loyal enough). The new force powers were also pretty freaking cool. We've seen the light side do mental suggestions but the dark side is forcing info out of people which is very cool (the dark side tends to be less subtle but I've never seen something that could be used outside of battle like torture and it totally works with the dark side). I don't think anybody should really call kylo ren a noob (low skill level) for all the powers we have thus far seen. I mean he has displayed the ability to stop blaster shots mid-flight which is a massive step up from deflecting them with your light saber. The other new power suggests he's more than just a fighter as well.

Also as much as people complain about the no women or often minorities as decent star wars character let me discuss something else. How many women, minorities and even aliens end up being the bad guys in star wars? For aliens it's mostly the crime lords and maybe thrawn (even if expanded universe is now non-canon). Look at the imperial side in the original trilogy or either of the 2 warring faction in the prequels. Do you see any women on the bad guys sides? The answer is no. This movie changed that as well. Sure women can be the hero but they can also be bad guys. Funny thing is the main baddies are still emo white guys but whatever. At least Finn's unit commander was female (and enjoys chrome and copying boba fett's style) and some various random pilots and such were female (rebels and I think 'first order' both had this). I'm thankful that to an extent we've at least accepted if you can have women as the main good guys then you can have them as bad guys too (something star wars fans never discuss). I'm taking a wild guess it's because the older audience used to have issues with violence against women but clearly everything was negative towards women in 'star wars' *rolls eyes* (at least according to some).

Honestly, it's just standard SJW complaining, posturing and hijacking of established franchises. It's what they do. Like female space marines.

Stupidest complaint award candidate right here. And have we already forgotten Mara Jade as badass female villain?

Disney has.

Too soon?

I had fun which was the most important part. I'm not going to expend much energy comparing the level action of a 2015 movie to movies from the late 70s and early 80s to find continuity quirks. Nor will I expect a sci-fi adventure movie in 2015 to try and dumb itself down to 70s and 80s action. With movies like the Marvel and DC universe, Star Wars 7 had to kick it up a notch to stay relevant to newer generations. All the nods were made to old people but the movie was designed to capture younger people like the originals did so long ago.

The action of 7 shouldn't be compaired to 4-6. That is just a waste of effort.

I was surprised on how tame the action actually was though. Given all the cartoons and video games that have come out recently, I expected much more incredible Jedi abilities. Hopefully Star Wars 8 will beef it all up. I need to see a star destroyer yanked out of the sky.

I didn't like kylo Ren at first but I am kind of excited to see what his character becomes by the end. I wonder if he will get his redemption at the end of it all. I like Rey for the most part, though I mostly found her to be not really sugnificant or entirely interesting. Just sort of there being a plucky hero with a destiny. I really like Finn and Poe. I felt they could have made Finn more stormtrooper and less janitor that fled during his first fire fight. It would of been nice to see him as a more take charge character that knew what he was doing but no longer knew why he was doing it. An I was honestly surpised to find out that he wasn't going to be the big hero and that he wasn't going to be a jedi. Poe is a good young Han analogue and I can't wait to see him and Finn on screen together again.

The movie had the feel of a new generation struggling to fill the shoes of legends. I know people feel that these new characters more powerful/incredible than than those they look to, but as I said its mostly because of the dates, technology and context of the current cinema action heros that everything seems more significant or impressive.