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2015/12/28 23:10:19
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
flamingkillamajig wrote: I personally never got all the hate about the re-edits with 'han shot first' and all the rage that induced.
Three reasons:
1) The edit is hilariously bad, like a child making their first mspaint gif.
2) It undermines the point of Han's development as a character. When we meet him he's an unrepentant drug smuggler who casually blows away a bounty hunter and flips the bartender a coin for the cleanup. Part of the story is Han growing to care about more than where his next credit is coming from, both in the larger scale (fighting for a greater cause) and the personal (Leia). Things like Han having a change of heart and coming back to save Luke are a lot less meaningful if Han starts off as a pretty decent guy who would only shoot someone who has already taken a shot at him.
3) It's representative of Lucas' delusional attempts at revisionist history about the movies. Over and over again he makes absurd "I meant it to be this way the whole time" claims that are blatantly contradicted by on-screen evidence, interviews with other people who worked on the movies, old scripts, etc. So when he tries to claim that Han always shot second and you just couldn't see it clearly because of the camera angle or whatever, as if the latest Ultra-Special Edition Star Wars: A New Marketing Campaign version is the only one that exists*, of course it's going to make people eyeroll and think he's an idiot.
*Apparently Mr. Lucas seems to have trouble with the concept of the internet, as his openly-stated belief is that only the latest edition is the "real" Star Wars and all the older versions will be forgotten as the old VHS tapes wear out and nobody goes back to watch them. Too bad anyone who wants it can get the 1977 version of the movie at any time.
Seriously if you're that angry by the fact Han shot first I could only wonder how angry you'd be if your whole universe was blown, farted and or crapped out of a black hole ***hole and turned into something infinitely worse with the original content now being considered dead and every average fan having spent hundreds if not thousands on the universe in question. *cough* warhammer fantasy *cough*
...
Have you honestly missed the vast amounts of hatred directed at GW for AoS?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/12/28 23:14:08
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
As I said I would prefer capital ship killers such as the 'Eclipse'.
Starts at about the 8:00 mark. It's from the 'star wars: empire at war-forces of corruption' game.
------
No I did see the hate GW got and it deserves every bit of it. Fantasy players have a right to be angry about what happened and what's worse is seeing AoS and hearing about it reminds them constantly of their universe dying like somebody filling a person's house with every remnant of somebody's dead family members to remind them every second of it. Worse still they shift blame to the fantasy players as if they were the problem. Well gee that's a real nice way to keep fans.
My point is that gamers and nerds of various fiction universes have not dealt with a load of absolute crap that warhammer fantasy fans have. The fact Angry Joe was trying to complain about the Day One DLC content for warhammer fantasy (a game he was probably never into) absolutely stuns me. Gamers and various nerds must be the absolute most catered to bunch ever. GW meanwhile gave fantasy fans a middle finger the size of a nuke in destructive effect.
That is getting far too off-topic though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/28 23:20:31
flamingkillamajig wrote: I personally never got all the hate about the re-edits with 'han shot first' and all the rage that induced.
Three reasons:
1) The edit is hilariously bad, like a child making their first mspaint gif.
2) It undermines the point of Han's development as a character. When we meet him he's an unrepentant drug smuggler who casually blows away a bounty hunter and flips the bartender a coin for the cleanup. Part of the story is Han growing to care about more than where his next credit is coming from, both in the larger scale (fighting for a greater cause) and the personal (Leia). Things like Han having a change of heart and coming back to save Luke are a lot less meaningful if Han starts off as a pretty decent guy who would only shoot someone who has already taken a shot at him.
3) It's representative of Lucas' delusional attempts at revisionist history about the movies. Over and over again he makes absurd "I meant it to be this way the whole time" claims that are blatantly contradicted by on-screen evidence, interviews with other people who worked on the movies, old scripts, etc. So when he tries to claim that Han always shot second and you just couldn't see it clearly because of the camera angle or whatever, as if the latest Ultra-Special Edition Star Wars: A New Marketing Campaign version is the only one that exists*, of course it's going to make people eyeroll and think he's an idiot.
*Apparently Mr. Lucas seems to have trouble with the concept of the internet, as his openly-stated belief is that only the latest edition is the "real" Star Wars and all the older versions will be forgotten as the old VHS tapes wear out and nobody goes back to watch them. Too bad anyone who wants it can get the 1977 version of the movie at any time.
All of this is so very much true.
However, I would like to point out that it's not "Han Shot First" but actually "Only Han Shot."
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2015/12/28 23:20:58
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
You're right, it is. There isn't some kind of competition to see who has suffered the worst abuse from the creators of the things they're fans of. The fact that GW ruined WHFB/AoS has nothing to do with the legitimacy of criticism of Star Wars.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/12/29 00:11:27
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
flamingkillamajig wrote: I personally never got all the hate about the re-edits with 'han shot first' and all the rage that induced.
Three reasons:
1) The edit is hilariously bad, like a child making their first mspaint gif.
2) It undermines the point of Han's development as a character. When we meet him he's an unrepentant drug smuggler who casually blows away a bounty hunter and flips the bartender a coin for the cleanup. Part of the story is Han growing to care about more than where his next credit is coming from, both in the larger scale (fighting for a greater cause) and the personal (Leia). Things like Han having a change of heart and coming back to save Luke are a lot less meaningful if Han starts off as a pretty decent guy who would only shoot someone who has already taken a shot at him.
3) It's representative of Lucas' delusional attempts at revisionist history about the movies. Over and over again he makes absurd "I meant it to be this way the whole time" claims that are blatantly contradicted by on-screen evidence, interviews with other people who worked on the movies, old scripts, etc. So when he tries to claim that Han always shot second and you just couldn't see it clearly because of the camera angle or whatever, as if the latest Ultra-Special Edition Star Wars: A New Marketing Campaign version is the only one that exists*, of course it's going to make people eyeroll and think he's an idiot.
*Apparently Mr. Lucas seems to have trouble with the concept of the internet, as his openly-stated belief is that only the latest edition is the "real" Star Wars and all the older versions will be forgotten as the old VHS tapes wear out and nobody goes back to watch them. Too bad anyone who wants it can get the 1977 version of the movie at any time.
All of this is so very much true.
However, I would like to point out that it's not "Han Shot First" but actually "Only Han Shot."
It stands to reason that anyone who hangs around the most wretched hive of scum and villainy in the galaxy, and survives, is going to have some nasty tricks up his sleeve he won't be shy about using.
2015/12/29 00:12:15
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Is anyone else sick of Death Stars? Episodes 4-7 have had 3 death star super weapons. I'd rather have more space battles and exotic locations like Korriban, Tython or Onderon. Have Kylo Ren and or Rey explore ancient Sith and Jedi Temples looking for holocrons full of secrets about the force.
Yeah, it was the only part of the story that had me rolling my eyes. However, I'm glad it was just a backdrop set piece for the character stories and not a major plot point like it was in 4 and 6. I just hope we can finally move past it. I'm sure it was a studio decision.
You'd think the First Order would have deep sized the Death Star concept or beefed up the defenses given the failure rate in protecting them. The only other reason I could imagine them funneling the time and resources into constructing one and keeping it secret all the while is figuring it's designed as a one strike and done weapon against a prime target, like the senate system.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Who's expecting a major war in the next movie involving the rebels, republic, and the first order? If there's not, I will be surprised.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/29 00:20:42
2015/12/29 00:25:19
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Is anyone else sick of Death Stars? Episodes 4-7 have had 3 death star super weapons. I'd rather have more space battles and exotic locations like Korriban, Tython or Onderon. Have Kylo Ren and or Rey explore ancient Sith and Jedi Temples looking for holocrons full of secrets about the force.
Yeah, it was the only part of the story that had me rolling my eyes. However, I'm glad it was just a backdrop set piece for the character stories and not a major plot point like it was in 4 and 6. I just hope we can finally move past it. I'm sure it was a studio decision.
You'd think the First Order would have deep sized the Death Star concept or beefed up the defenses given the failure rate in protecting them. The only other reason I could imagine them funneling the time and resources into constructing one and keeping it secret all the while is figuring it's designed as a one strike and done weapon against a prime target, like the senate system.
I found it more interesting how they were one laser blast short of being able to annihilate the last and prime target (why'd they wait to blast a fairly important target with the main cast for the 2nd blast?) for the stupid super-weapon. I mean the rebels and in this case the republic have had zero defense against this other than staying hidden which is usually found out by the imperials. I mean seriously against star destroyers if I remember they used those ion cannons to stun them so they could run away. Certainly they must have some way to at least stall the death star if they can find it so that they can run away in time. Then again these death stars have remained secret to an extent. If you've been fighting death stars decades upon decades you'd imagine they know any sort of defense against being shot by em or something. Perhaps a shield of sorts or some way to scramble the targeting?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/29 00:26:36
Frazzled wrote: Can we pull the thread back out of the cellar of misanthropy and GOT already?
Saw it. It was fine, but just to the level of your average popcorn movie. Managed to see it with the entire family though, which was epic. Me and the Boy, drinking boubon and vodka. Definitely worth it.
You know this is why we can't have nice things just because I am agreeing with Frazzled even said "WOOOAH guys!" (Not an insult!)
Lets get back ontopic.
Starwars.... Not game of thrones.
Two completely different franchises. One is just far more successful.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/12/29 00:47:35
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Sigvatr wrote: One is far older and appeals to a far wider audience...do the math.
Quality-wise, I don't think anyone will agree on which one is actually better written...
That depends on which movies and seasons you compare.
IMO the writing of Star Wars got better with each movie. (OT. Let's...disregard the PT).
Whereas the writing of GoT started out great, but is getting progressively worse with each Season. It's getting to the point where I want them to hurry up and wrap up the show with no more than 7 Seasons before they jump the shark.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/29 01:33:47
2015/12/29 02:21:53
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Does anyone else wonder what must be about to happen to the Rebel base? Presumably the FO still knows where it is and has several Resurgent class star destroyers. The rebels have like 5 fighters left apparently and I don't think we saw them with a single capital ship.
Kojiro wrote: Does anyone else wonder what must be about to happen to the Rebel base? Presumably the FO still knows where it is and has several Resurgent class star destroyers. The rebels have like 5 fighters left apparently and I don't think we saw them with a single capital ship.
I imagine that the Resistance is going to move its base and try to regroup the remains of the Republic fleet whilst the First Order is still in disarray over the destruction of Starkiller Base.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/12/29 02:28:12
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Kojiro wrote: Does anyone else wonder what must be about to happen to the Rebel base? Presumably the FO still knows where it is and has several Resurgent class star destroyers. The rebels have like 5 fighters left apparently and I don't think we saw them with a single capital ship.
I imagine that the Resistance is going to move its base and try to regroup the remains of the Republic fleet whilst the First Order is still in disarray over the destruction of Starkiller Base.
I think the republic would be in worse disarray than the first order. Despite the FO's loss it's incredibly minor compared to the loss of 5 planets (FO are winning by 4 planets right now). The FO should be attacking big time right now since they still have a real fleet compared to the rebels.
2015/12/29 02:28:39
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Kojiro wrote: Does anyone else wonder what must be about to happen to the Rebel base? Presumably the FO still knows where it is and has several Resurgent class star destroyers. The rebels have like 5 fighters left apparently and I don't think we saw them with a single capital ship.
I imagine that the Resistance is going to move its base and try to regroup the remains of the Republic fleet whilst the First Order is still in disarray over the destruction of Starkiller Base.
I think the republic would be in worse disarray than the first order. Despite the FO's loss it's incredibly minor compared to the loss of 5 planets (FO are winning by 4 planets right now). The FO should be attacking big time right now since they still have a real fleet compared to the rebels.
That is true though currently their two main officers, from what we saw at least (Hux and Ren), are on their way to Snoke rather than orchestrating an attack. Ren especially is likely to be out of action for a while as he recovers and gets more training.
We don't know how much of their total forces that the First Order lost on Starkiller, either. From the speech scene it certainly looked like they had a lot of personnel and materiel there.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/12/29 02:35:58
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Kojiro wrote: Does anyone else wonder what must be about to happen to the Rebel base? Presumably the FO still knows where it is and has several Resurgent class star destroyers. The rebels have like 5 fighters left apparently and I don't think we saw them with a single capital ship.
I imagine that the Resistance is going to move its base and try to regroup the remains of the Republic fleet whilst the First Order is still in disarray over the destruction of Starkiller Base.
I think the republic would be in worse disarray than the first order. Despite the FO's loss it's incredibly minor compared to the loss of 5 planets (FO are winning by 4 planets right now). The FO should be attacking big time right now since they still have a real fleet compared to the rebels.
That is true though currently their two main officers, from what we saw at least (Hux and Ren), are on their way to Snoke rather than orchestrating an attack. Ren especially is likely to be out of action for a while as he recovers and gets more training.
We don't know how much of their total forces that the First Order lost on Starkiller, either. From the speech scene it certainly looked like they had a lot of personnel and materiel there.
Whatever they had on that planet could not have totaled what the republic had on 5. Well it shouldn't anyway. If the Empire chose it's targets well the empire would have a huge upper hand. It could conjure up huge armies from it's territory (since it lost an uninhabited planet) while the Republic is missing 5 planets worth of soldiers/potential men to fight.
Really I think it's likely the FO will become full on Empire next movie while the Resistance goes back to full on Rebels.
2015/12/29 02:43:52
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Swastakowey wrote: Whatever they had on that planet could not have totaled what the republic had on 5. Well it shouldn't anyway. If the Empire chose it's targets well the empire would have a huge upper hand. It could conjure up huge armies from it's territory (since it lost an uninhabited planet) while the Republic is missing 5 planets worth of soldiers/potential men to fight.
Really I think it's likely the FO will become full on Empire next movie while the Resistance goes back to full on Rebels.
This assumes that both sides started with an equal number of planets. If the Republic had 10,000 planets and the First Order had 100 it's now 9,995 to 99.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/12/29 02:46:35
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Swastakowey wrote: Whatever they had on that planet could not have totaled what the republic had on 5. Well it shouldn't anyway. If the Empire chose it's targets well the empire would have a huge upper hand. It could conjure up huge armies from it's territory (since it lost an uninhabited planet) while the Republic is missing 5 planets worth of soldiers/potential men to fight.
Really I think it's likely the FO will become full on Empire next movie while the Resistance goes back to full on Rebels.
This assumes that both sides started with an equal number of planets. If the Republic had 10,000 planets and the First Order had 100 it's now 9,995 to 99.
That is true. But it is my assumption. Maybe the FO is outnumbered, but then it shouldn't be a problem for the Republic etc to finish them off instead of ignoring it. Surely a cease fire is hinting that both sides are powerful.
2015/12/29 02:50:42
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I imagine the First Order will launch an invasion or at least a punitive raid to capitalize on the disarray caused by the destruction of the Republic's Government.
2015/12/29 02:53:45
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
It could very well be that in the next film, it's more of a situation where both, relatively small in the galactic scheme of things, forces are hunting each other, trying to find a way to outmaneuver the other group.
Imagine "Wrath of Khan" style, but with fleets instead of individual ships.
2015/12/29 02:57:11
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
So I finally saw the movie. It's okay. I've liked the original trilogy, but they were never anywhere close to my favorite films.
For a while I thought that this might actually end up being my favorite Star Wars film. But then I got to the 3rd act and
Spoiler:
'Not Jacen Solo' became this whiny little git.
Spoiler:
Holy gak are these villains terrible. Whiny Darth Vader wannabe 2.0, Emperor 2.0, The Empire 2.0, Totally not Boba Fett 2.0. Those villains are utter garbage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/29 02:57:34
2015/12/29 03:12:30
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Compel wrote: According to Wiki, that Star Destroyer was pretty much almost a one-off.
Both sources I can find say they're a new class, and in limited supply (I find the rational that they didn't have resources absurd given they built that base- resources that would almost certainly have been better spent on ships) but it's not unique.
Even if it was a single ship, it'd still contain two wings of TIEs and a full legion of stormtroopers. And three thousand turbo lasers and ion cannons. If the Resistance 'fleet' really is a dozen X-wings- or what survived of them- they are in a boatload of trouble.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Meh, I'm sure the Resistance had more than just that base. And the Republic still has some ships spread out across the galaxy. I doubt they lost their entire fleet, because it would be pretty stupid to keep your entire fleet in one place. Of course this is star wars, the sci-fi setting which has the combined tactical acumen of a suicidal lemming.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Meh, I'm sure the Resistance had more than just that base. And the Republic still has some ships spread out across the galaxy. I doubt they lost their entire fleet, because it would be pretty stupid to keep your entire fleet in one place. Of course this is star wars, the sci-fi setting which has the combined tactical acumen of a suicidal lemming.
I'm sure that the Republic has more ships, or at least the capability to create them. They are a sleeping giant.
As for the Resistance, I don't know, they did say half their fleet was gone after losing like six X wings.
2015/12/29 07:18:28
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
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