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Hey everybody,

I want to put together a Minas Morgul force - 75% of the reason for display, the other 25% as a viable little army for whenever LOTRSBG gets played.

So I mainly want it to be fluffy but also not totally crap for playing.

Thus far, this is what I have cobbled together:

Gothmog foot and mounted
6 Morgul Knights
Morannon Orc command box (metal - Shaman, Captain, Banner)
2 Morannon Orc Captains
24 Morannon Orcs (one old box aka two new boxes worth)
3 Orc Trackers

I also have every named ringwraith and the ol' Mouth of Sauron. Witch King? Dark Marshall?

What should I add to it that is both fluffy and a little bit competetive? I was thinking some more Orc Trackers, a couple Black Numenoreans, maybe some Morgul Stalkers? Should I grab another box of 12 Morannon orcs?

Thanks for any help!

Morgul Knights.

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
Morgul Knights.

MB

Hmm more than the 6 I already have?

Personally, I associate the Morannon Orcs more with the actual Morannon (the Black Gate to Mordor) than Minas Morgul. I'd probably go with a mix of Mordor Orcs and/or Mordor Uruk-hai instead, but if you already have the Morannon Orcs I'd just go ahead with them.

You could add a Ringwraith on Fell Beast, they are always cool. Some Black Numenorians are another idea. Finally, there are a couple of named orc heroes (Gorbag and Shagrat) that are associated with Minas Morgul in the books if you'd like to replace the generic orc captains.

The thing is, Morannon Orcs are the most points-efficient Orc. Their armour is better than the Mordor Uruk-hai and they really are just head and shoulders above a Mordor Orc.

Now, in the book it is mentioned that the Orc host that attacked Minas Tirith came from Minas Morgul (or at least a part of it did) and Gothmog (armoured in much the same way as "Morannon" Orcs) was the Castellan of Minas Morgul, at least in GW/ NLC publications. There is at least some logic to having Morannon Orcs in a Morgul force.

As far as what to get next, Gorbag was most definitely a Captain from the Morgul garrison and so his Orcs would be a nice, themed addition. It will up your body count and give you some expendable troops. Morannon Orcs don't exactly break the bank on points, but losing one still hurts more than a standard Orc.

Yeah, Morannon Orcs are odd ones. The fluff they were tied to and their actual aesthetic is much closer to the Orcs that march from Minas Morgul than those at the Black Gate, so really they 'should' be Morgul Orcs! So in that regard you're fine!

There's definitely a place for some regular Orcs as well, though. The host that leaves MM in RotK is about as varied as it gets, so the more Orc types you can mix in the better from a display standpoint. And as mentioned above, there's always room for some even cheaper, even more expendable Orc rabble when you come to gaming!

A Fell Beast mounted Nazgul is a must, it's just iconic!

Well, staying visually fluffy to the movies, the Morannon orc army marched from Minas Morgul - at least in the shots we see (with that distinctive armor type that I love). Morgul Orcs basically don't exist in the films and therefore in miniature, afaik?

It's been recommended to me to use the Dark Marshall on Nazgul as my general, whatcha think? Though I like Gothmog so I was hoping to kinda make his force.

I definitely want some Black Numenoreans. I really dislike the official BN models though - I know people like to find alternatives... any recommendations for properly-scaled figures? I guess I could take the Last Alliance Numenoreans with alternate shields and helmets. I've also toyed with the idea of getting the Finecast BNs and chopping their heads off and using alternate heads - dunno which though.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
The thing is, Morannon Orcs are the most points-efficient Orc. Their armour is better than the Mordor Uruk-hai and they really are just head and shoulders above a Mordor Orc.

That's quite true, and if one wants that's a prefectly reasonable reason to chose them. On the other hand, if I am planning a themed force like this I tend to put "fluff" in front of issues like points efficency.

 Paradigm wrote:
Yeah, Morannon Orcs are odd ones. The fluff they were tied to and their actual aesthetic is much closer to the Orcs that march from Minas Morgul than those at the Black Gate, so really they 'should' be Morgul Orcs! So in that regard you're fine!

Since "Morannon" orcs are a creation of GW (or Jackson) rather than a true canon idea, I would have no problem if someone wanted to argue that the "Morannon" orcs are in fact just the "best of the best" orcs chosen for the border guard of Mordor. Thus it would make sense for them to be part of the garrision at both the Morranon and at Minas Morgul as the two most likely avenues of invasion by forces of the West.

 judgedoug wrote:
I definitely want some Black Numenoreans. I really dislike the official BN models though - I know people like to find alternatives... any recommendations for properly-scaled figures?

Darn! I read on another forum about another someone using figs from another manufacturer for BN's, they even had a symbol on their shield that looked like the eye of mordor. I can't seen to track down the posting now. If I can find it I'll let you know.

 mdauben wrote:

Since "Morannon" orcs are a creation of GW (or Jackson) rather than a true canon idea, I would have no problem if someone wanted to argue that the "Morannon" orcs are in fact just the "best of the best" orcs chosen for the border guard of Mordor. Thus it would make sense for them to be part of the garrision at both the Morranon and at Minas Morgul as the two most likely avenues of invasion by forces of the West.

I do like the way that Morannon orcs, in the Jackson/GW canon, look like professional soldiers (like Isengard Uruk Hai). Marching in good order, sieging Minas Tirith, etc.

I think it's very reasonable that Mordor would have both "Rabble" and "professional/elite" Orc soldiers, aside from the Uruks.

Well guys I started assembly work on it last night. Using my collection of pre-existing models, this is what I have:

Nazgul on Fell Beast.
24 Morannon Orcs. 3 Captains. 1 Banner.
24 Mordor Orcs. 1 Captain, 1 Banner.
4 Mordor Uruk-Hai.
3 Orc Trackers.
5 Morgul Knights. 1 Morgul Knight w/ Banner.
Gothmog, foot and mounted.

I still want some Black Numenoreans but need an alternate manufacturer (though I was considering getting the finecast guys and chopping the heads off of Morgul Knights and using those... expensive) Someone else also suggested using Red Box Games Helsvakt for Black Numenoreans---which I have a ton of!

I decided against Wargriders as I want to keep it heavily film Minas Morgul flavored. Should I add some more Morgul Knights or are six enough?

Someone on One Ring pointed out that there are indeed trolls marching from Minas Morgul, so I am going to add one or two.


Should I add some more Orc Trackers?

 mdauben wrote:
Personally, I associate the Morannon Orcs more with the actual Morannon (the Black Gate to Mordor) than Minas Morgul. I'd probably go with a mix of Mordor Orcs and/or Mordor Uruk-hai instead, but if you already have the Morannon Orcs I'd just go ahead with them.

You could add a Ringwraith on Fell Beast, they are always cool. Some Black Numenorians are another idea. Finally, there are a couple of named orc heroes (Gorbag and Shagrat) that are associated with Minas Morgul in the books if you'd like to replace the generic orc captains.

If you look at the Orcs in the movie, what you see at Minas Tirith in the Battle of the Pelennor, they ARE the "Morannon Orcs."

I cannot figure out why GW called them "Morannon Orcs" when they are really "Morgul Orcs."

Yet one of the many things GW screwed up.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you are keeping with the film, then there should be no Morgul Knights, or Black Númenóreans.

The only thing they used in the film were Orcs and Trolls.

The Haradrim showed up from out of the blue in the films (where and how they got those Mûmakil across the river in the movies???).

It is in the books where you find Morgul Knights. In addition to Variags (which is also a word for "Russians" - or a form of "Easterling" in Middle-earth - the etymology is complex and lengthy), Haradrim, Far-Haradrim, and only a few trolls (Gothmog is also a "human" - albeit one that is really messed up by occult stuff from Mordor, like the Mouth of Sauron - Sauron didn't get the name The Necromancer for no reason).

For a Morgul Force, during the attack on Minas Tirith, you should have a representation that breaks down into:

• 30,000 some-odd Orcs.
• 18,000 Haradrim, and Far Haradrim (roughly 2/3 mounted - Including Mûmakil)
• 7,000 Variags and Khandirim
• 3,000 - 4,000 Morgul Knights/Black Númenóreans
Assorted trolls here and there (mostly for hauling big stuff, not as combatants)

In tHoM-e, the Morgul Army is examined in more detail.

We might, for instance, actually have more Haradrim, because the Haradrim mounted alone were said to be roughly 3X that of the Rohirrim, who themselves had 6,000 - 8,000 in their Éohere. That would put the Haradrim Mounted (mostly Light Horse), at between 18,000 and 24,000.

And the Haradrim would said to be roughly 50:50 mounted and foot.

Tolkien also says the Orcs made up the majority of the army.

Also, take the Witch-King as a mounted (on a horse) figure (or one of the other Nazgûl).

Gothmog may actually have been one of those other Nazgûl. That is something Tolkien himself speculated about, but never decided.

But I suppose GW's "Dark Marshall" is not a bad choice.

MB

 judgedoug wrote:
Well guys I started assembly work on it last night. Using my collection of pre-existing models,

Looks like you are off to a good start. Are you going to be posting pics of your force once you finish painting them? I'd love to see how they turn out.

 mdauben wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Well guys I started assembly work on it last night. Using my collection of pre-existing models,

Looks like you are off to a good start. Are you going to be posting pics of your force once you finish painting them? I'd love to see how they turn out.

Sure thing! I like painting an army only when I have every model, so I'm low-key looking for one each of the metal Mordor trolls. and probably a couple more trackers, and morgul stalkers if I get lucky. So I'll probably start painting this army in a couple weeks!

Just nabbed one of the metal Mordor trolls to add to the force.

That gives my force:

Nazgul on Fell Beast.
24 Morannon Orcs. 3 Captains. 1 Banner.
24 Mordor Orcs. 1 Captain, 1 Banner.
4 Mordor Uruk-Hai.
3 Orc Trackers.
5 Morgul Knights. 1 Morgul Knight w/ Banner.
Gothmog, foot and mounted.
1 armored Troll.

So - before I start priming - should I add a few more Orc Trackers for bow support and maybe a few more Mordor Uruks?

My opinion is don't wait. Start priming and get your line troops painted to get some of the scheme down. Save the uruks and trolls for last when you can add the others to the list. But you have a good number of orcs to start with

 namiel wrote:
My opinion is don't wait. Start priming and get your line troops painted to get some of the scheme down. Save the uruks and trolls for last when you can add the others to the list. But you have a good number of orcs to start with

Well I'm making an order before I have time to paint these (won't be in my painting schedule til Labor Day). Thinking one blister of Mordor Uruk Hai and another blister of Orc Trackers and the Troll Chieftain since he has Morannon-style armor on him. And I'll break down and get the pack of 4 Black Numenoreans and just convert them a bit.

So with those added, making a total of

Nazgul on Fell Beast. (or on horse, or on foot, I own them all. But the point is, a Nazgul)
24 Morannon Orcs. 3 Captains. 1 Banner.
24 Mordor Orcs. 1 Captain, 1 Banner.
7 Mordor Uruk-Hai.
6 Orc Trackers.
5 Morgul Knights. 1 Morgul Knight w/ Banner.
4 Black Numenoreans.
Gothmog, foot and mounted.
1 armored Troll.
1 Troll chieftain.

What's everyone think? A nice fluffy compact force of about 70-some models with a couple centerpieces, characters, and cool looking infantry, all themed as a Minas Morgul detachment?

You have a good representation of a mordor army. Sizable but small enough to fit into one case easily. Have you figured out the points yet?

Nope, wanted to do this army mostly for theme and visual impact; then I can build army lists from the pool of painted models based on points limit, scenario, etc.

 judgedoug wrote:
Nope, wanted to do this army mostly for theme and visual impact; then I can build army lists from the pool of painted models based on points limit, scenario, etc.

Nonsense ill bring all my wood elves and you bring all your mordor and we have a big battle of good vs evil

theme game lol

Hahaha!

Well, while I wait for the Black Numenoreans, Orc Trackers, and Troll Chieftain to show up, I went back to my Isengard army and just started painting my 60-plus Uruk scouts, so should finish those up before I get started on the Morannon force.

Hey I don't know if you would do me a favour ! Those black Numenoreans you've ordered, would you take a few pictures of them when they arrive? I'm wanting to see the quality of the finecast versions

 Wolf wrote:
Hey I don't know if you would do me a favour ! Those black Numenoreans you've ordered, would you take a few pictures of them when they arrive? I'm wanting to see the quality of the finecast versions

They should be arriving today so I'll try to remember to get some taken tonight!

Got 'em last night. The casts are actually quite crisp and clean, and I am hopeful that a good paint job can make them a lot better than the painted goofballs on GW's site. I'll post pics later today!

That's great to hear! I look forward to seeing them

Here we go


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The top one is the best, unfortunately you get two of the middle sculpt!

So... worth $6 apiece? Eh, I suppose, if you really want a few of them and are too lazy/busy like myself to convert them.
If only they were all sculpted as well as the top guy...

They look decent enough for me, I'll only be getting two packs no need for any more than that thanks your pictures have been very helpful !

If you want theme you might want to include some barrow wights, a shade and some specters also, Minas Morgul is afterall the lair of the witch king and he was practicing sorcery and it's totally within keeping with that theme and the nature of the place being haunted to include some evil spirits. It should mainly consist of orcs of course and possibly some morgul knights/black numenorians but having some evil spirits would really help push that theme more. Remember too that the witch king employed all manner of nasties when he sat on his throne in Angmar, I doubt much had changed once he made MM his new home.

WD315 has Adam Troke's 500p army from Cirith Ungol which might help you thematically. It's not Minas Morgul but anyways the 2 towers are pretty close to each other.

Shelob
Shagrat
Gorbag
Ringwraith

23 Orc warriors, 1 banner bearer
6 Uruk-hai with 2-h axes, 3 orc trackers

I was able to snag a unit of 8 Morgul Stalkers so I'm adding them to my Minas Morgul force.

I'm nearly done with my Isengard army (which I will post on this forum when done) and plan on painting this force up, along with a Rivendell force I just got.