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2015/09/11 19:23:59
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Coupled with the reliable Venn Diagram bingo of right wing anti-government fear and Christianity.
There is truth in that. But as already noted we all know this is just an excuse to wear your tactical briefs and use your tactical kazoo.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/11 19:25:24
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Mr.Church13 wrote: So a bunch of religious people are brandishing guns to scare people into doing what they want with threats of violence.
And it's not in a Middle Eastern Nation? The hypocrisy is strong with this group.
NO. thats not whats happening. good try to paint them with the same brush derp derp.
They've used weakly veiled threats of violence against the U.S. Government to get it to comply with their demands. There's no way this can be interpreted as anything but a domestic terrorist group.
Even if you leave off the religious connotations, because I'm pretty sure you don "have" to be religious to be a terrorist. It's really just a numbers game by association. They're still terrorists using fear and threats to Make points and Force their view on people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/11 19:26:43
2015/09/11 19:40:36
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Mr.Church13 wrote: So a bunch of religious people are brandishing guns to scare people into doing what they want with threats of violence.
And it's not in a Middle Eastern Nation? The hypocrisy is strong with this group.
NO. thats not whats happening. good try to paint them with the same brush derp derp.
They've used weakly veiled threats of violence against the U.S. Government to get it to comply with their demands. There's no way this can be interpreted as anything but a domestic terrorist group.
They are not a bunch of religious people. They are a bunch of antigovernment wackjobs. Different intent.
Whether or not you want to call them terrorists is another issue. They're just not religious as a baseline and motivation. But they do like to get their tacticool on.
I really loved the one Bundy scene with the guy in deep prone overwatch, with... a .22lr HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. My daughter shot a rifle like that and made bullseye when she was 8!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/11 19:48:47
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Mr.Church13 wrote: So a bunch of religious people are brandishing guns to scare people into doing what they want with threats of violence.
And it's not in a Middle Eastern Nation? The hypocrisy is strong with this group.
What gives you the impression the Oath Keepers consider themselves religious or are religiously motivated? Maybe you are confusing them with another group?
Because they have repeatedly referred to themselves as a Christian Patriot Militia.
Where?
Not on their website:
Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders, who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” That oath, mandated by Article VI of the Constitution itself, is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and Oath Keepers declare that they will not obey unconstitutional orders, such as orders to disarm the American people, to conduct warrantless searches, or to detain Americans as “enemy combatants” in violation of their ancient right to jury trial. See the Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders We Will Not Obey for details.
Oath Keepers reaches out to both current serving and veterans to remind them of their oaths, to teach them more about the Constitution they swore to defend, and to inspire them to defend it. See below for details on how we do that. Oath Keepers also includes a membership program designated as “Associate Members”, which consists of patriotic citizens who have not served in uniform but who serve now by supporting this mission with their Associate Membership and volunteer activities. Oath Keepers welcomes our Associate Members and appreciates their support of our mission.
Maybe you're right maybe they aren't religious, I just keep seeing the words "heavily armed self-described Cristian Patriot militia" in news stories.
But like I said religious affiliation aside still a terrorist group. Honestly I hope they're smart enough to stay out of the way when Davis goes to jail again, because as someone said above terrorism doesn't have a very successful history as a tactic.
Kim Davis is definitely not worth their Waco moment.
2015/09/11 20:34:17
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Mr.Church13 wrote: Maybe you're right maybe they aren't religious, I just keep seeing the words "heavily armed self-described Cristian Patriot militia" in news stories.
But like I said religious affiliation aside still a terrorist group. Honestly I hope they're smart enough to stay out of the way when Davis goes to jail again, because as someone said above terrorism doesn't have a very successful history as a tactic.
Kim Davis is definitely not worth their Waco moment.
And really when it comes down to it...
Are they really going to shoot a US marshal, most likely on live television or at the very least recorded due to the media attention (to say nothing of bystanders with mobile phones) this story is getting, in cold blood for enforcing the law?
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/09/11 20:41:13
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
That is why I am questioning their involvement. If anyone in this situation needs the aid of those "sworn to defend the Constitution", it's the judge and those seeking marriage licenses.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2015/09/11 20:43:40
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Psienesis wrote: That is why I am questioning their involvement. If anyone in this situation needs the aid of those "sworn to defend the Constitution", it's the judge and those seeking marriage licenses.
I think we can all agree that a heavily armed vigilante group with intense political beliefs is the best thing to really calm down any situation.
2015/09/11 20:50:02
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
for damage to her own rights
"immediate and irreparable injury to her individual religious liberty and free speech rights.""
That's an odd move, given that it was a federal court that gave her the order and found her in contempt
I mean, what on earth are her lawyers doing?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/11 20:50:21
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/09/11 20:51:11
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Psienesis wrote: That is why I am questioning their involvement. If anyone in this situation needs the aid of those "sworn to defend the Constitution", it's the judge and those seeking marriage licenses.
Ah but in the eyes of these kinds of groups only the government does things against the constitution, never the individual
A Town Called Malus wrote: Ah but in the eyes of these kinds of groups only the government does things against the constitution, never the individual
Strictly speaking, the constitution only binds the government, with one specific exception: ownership of chattel slavery.
Of course, governments are made of people, but the reason she can deprive others of a constitutional right is not because she is acting as an individual, but as the a government official.
2015/09/14 13:30:42
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
CNN wrote:Kim Davis, county clerk of Rowan County, Kentucky, returned to work Monday, saying she will not issue any marriage licenses that go against her religious beliefs -- but she left the door open for her deputies to continue to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, as long as those documents do not have Davis' name or title on them.
Davis acknowledged that she is not sure on the legality of licenses altered in such a way.
Davis spent five days behind bars this month for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses -- something she is legally obligated to do under state and federal law.
On her first day back at work, she read a statement calling for state authorities to find a solution to accommodate her religious beliefs.
"Effective immediately, and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me," Davis said.
In the meantime, she offered an interim resolution, but it is unclear if it passes legal muster:
If her deputies -- who had been issuing marriage certificates to same-sex couples in her absence -- continue to do so, Davis said she will not stop them, but that those certificates must not have her name or title, and must instead state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order.
U.S. District Judge David Bunning "indicated last week that he was willing to accept altered marriage license even though he was not certain of their validity," Davis said. "I, too, have great doubts whether the license issued under these conditions are even valid."
It's not clear how Bunning will respond to Davis' proposal.
"If Ms. Davis stops them from issuing licenses, then we are right back where we started," said CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, before Davis made her statement. "And Judge Bunning has made it quite clear, he will lock her back up."
Governor: No special session
Since being released from jail last week, Davis has been lying low and opening boxes of letters sent to her while she was in jail.
"I am deeply moved by all those who prayed for me," she said in a statement. "All I can say is that I am amazed and very grateful."
Davis' legal team has been busy on her behalf, filing motions that suggest her brief stint in jail did nothing to change her mind.
On Friday, for example, her defense attorneys asked Bunning for "injunctive relief," which essentially amounts to a request that she be exempt from having to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples until the matter is resolved by the Federal Court of Appeals. The judge denied the appeal.
Davis' attorney, Mat Staver, said a solution would be to remove not just Davis' name and office from the marriage licenses themselves but from the process entirely. Have the state issue them instead, he said.
Sounds simple enough, but under current Kentucky state law, the authority to issue marriage licenses rests solely with each of the state's 120 county clerks, meaning it would take an act of the legislature to transfer that authority. The legislature, however, doesn't convene until January 5, and Gov. Steve Beshear has said he has no intention of calling lawmakers back to Frankfort for an emergency session before then.
Legislation in the works
Kentucky state Senate President Robert Stivers told CNN last week that a legislative solution was in the works and it would likely pass quickly when lawmakers convene in January.
But that is still some three months away, three months in which Davis, who refuses to resign, will still have the authority to issue -- or to not issue -- marriage licenses in Rowan County.
"It's a very, very difficult decision that no one wants to have," said Staver. "Choose your job, or choose your faith."
She's trying to toe the line between being in contempt (and being jailed again) and "betraying" her faith. This should be more interesting by next week.
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
2015/09/14 14:36:18
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
She's saying she doesn't think it's legal. By that logic she's still in contempt by refusing to issue legal licenses. I feel that she's either going to cave and do her job, or go back to jail. There is no middle grounds until January.
If those licenses are no good, think of the suits against the state for saying "go ahead"
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
2015/09/14 15:06:12
Subject: Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
2015/09/14 15:18:10
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
CNN wrote:Kim Davis, county clerk of Rowan County, Kentucky, returned to work Monday, saying she will not issue any marriage licenses that go against her religious beliefs -- but she left the door open for her deputies to continue to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, as long as those documents do not have Davis' name or title on them.
Davis acknowledged that she is not sure on the legality of licenses altered in such a way.
Davis spent five days behind bars this month for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses -- something she is legally obligated to do under state and federal law.
On her first day back at work, she read a statement calling for state authorities to find a solution to accommodate her religious beliefs.
"Effective immediately, and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me," Davis said.
In the meantime, she offered an interim resolution, but it is unclear if it passes legal muster:
If her deputies -- who had been issuing marriage certificates to same-sex couples in her absence -- continue to do so, Davis said she will not stop them, but that those certificates must not have her name or title, and must instead state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order.
U.S. District Judge David Bunning "indicated last week that he was willing to accept altered marriage license even though he was not certain of their validity," Davis said. "I, too, have great doubts whether the license issued under these conditions are even valid."
It's not clear how Bunning will respond to Davis' proposal.
"If Ms. Davis stops them from issuing licenses, then we are right back where we started," said CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, before Davis made her statement. "And Judge Bunning has made it quite clear, he will lock her back up."
Governor: No special session
Since being released from jail last week, Davis has been lying low and opening boxes of letters sent to her while she was in jail.
"I am deeply moved by all those who prayed for me," she said in a statement. "All I can say is that I am amazed and very grateful."
Davis' legal team has been busy on her behalf, filing motions that suggest her brief stint in jail did nothing to change her mind.
On Friday, for example, her defense attorneys asked Bunning for "injunctive relief," which essentially amounts to a request that she be exempt from having to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples until the matter is resolved by the Federal Court of Appeals. The judge denied the appeal.
Davis' attorney, Mat Staver, said a solution would be to remove not just Davis' name and office from the marriage licenses themselves but from the process entirely. Have the state issue them instead, he said.
Sounds simple enough, but under current Kentucky state law, the authority to issue marriage licenses rests solely with each of the state's 120 county clerks, meaning it would take an act of the legislature to transfer that authority. The legislature, however, doesn't convene until January 5, and Gov. Steve Beshear has said he has no intention of calling lawmakers back to Frankfort for an emergency session before then.
Legislation in the works
Kentucky state Senate President Robert Stivers told CNN last week that a legislative solution was in the works and it would likely pass quickly when lawmakers convene in January.
But that is still some three months away, three months in which Davis, who refuses to resign, will still have the authority to issue -- or to not issue -- marriage licenses in Rowan County.
"It's a very, very difficult decision that no one wants to have," said Staver. "Choose your job, or choose your faith."
She's trying to toe the line between being in contempt (and being jailed again) and "betraying" her faith. This should be more interesting by next week.
To quote the ghost programs from the Matrix Reloaded :
We are becoming annoyed.
Yes we are.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/15 18:36:02
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
I couldnt have been the only one to see the Irony of an organization called Oath Keepers protecting a lady who's issue is essentially breaking an oath
5 lawyers in DC changed what she pledged her oath too though...so she never pledged an oath to what they thrust on her.
GG
She pledged an oath to only marry straights? Fascinating.
Or did she say this one?
I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of .... according to law; and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God.
As well as this one?
I, ....., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the
duties of the office of .............. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my
skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees,
opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all
books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not
knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the
duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God."
2015/09/15 18:54:06
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
I couldnt have been the only one to see the Irony of an organization called Oath Keepers protecting a lady who's issue is essentially breaking an oath
5 lawyers in DC changed what she pledged her oath too though...so she never pledged an oath to what they thrust on her.
GG
Nope.
I, ....., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the
duties of the office of .............. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my
skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees,
opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all
books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not
knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the
duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God
"will well and truly discharge the duties of the office..." One of her duties is handing out marriage licenses.
"will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality" huh, wonder what she's been doing?
"so help me God" She swore to God that she would do her job. Born again Christian she may be but she apparently hasn't gotten to the parts of the bible that talk about doing what you say that you're going to do.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/09/15 19:00:02
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
And if she can't do her job anymore, it's her duty to step down. That's how this works. You can't not uphold the law just because it changed. Police aren't alowed to ignore new laws, because they came after their oath.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2015/09/15 19:06:38
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
Co'tor Shas wrote: And if she can't do her job anymore, it's her duty to step down. That's how this works. You can't not uphold the law just because it changed. Police aren't alowed to ignore new laws, because they came after their oath.
I'm not disagreeing with you, if it were me,I probably would have resigned.
GG
2015/09/15 19:07:39
Subject: Re:Kentucky Clerk’s Office Defies Court Order to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses
generalgrog wrote: Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.
GG
You pledge an oath to uphold the law of the land.
If you can't understand that, we can't help you.
KK III
For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.Therefore the circumstances of her oath changed. I.e what she pledged her oath to changed.
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