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Hello all,

I'm going to start by saying that this thread isn't anything new. It's mainly just yet another person complaining about Necrons. But at the same time, I'm looking for tips.

Anyways, I played against Necrons for the first time today. And holy moly it was absolutely brutal. I actually conceded by the end of turn 2 because I was getting slaughtered. It was 1500 of my Dark Angels vs 1500 of my buddy's new Necrons. And I thought the option of having (and I was actually using) a 2+ rerollable jink was mean. But compared to Necrons... 2+ rerollable jink is laughable.

This game was one of the few cases where I legitimately questioned why I play 40k over other games like Warmachine. I mean losing is one thing. I've lost before (I actually lose a lot. Still fairly new after all and I face Tau often). But this was INSANE. This wasn't a game. This was a one sided slaughter! I mean my buddy didn't even use the Decurion Detachment. But with formations and what not he was getting 4+ invulns and 4+ resurrection (or whatever it's called) and I just couldn't kill a damn thing.

Enough of my complaining, though. I don't want to go "Welp, with Necrons around, I'm never going to play." and I don't want to refuse to battle my buddy. I mean he bought the models after all! I want to face them and have a decent match. Win or lose, I really don't mind. As long as it isn't a one sided slaughter. So what tips would one offer to someone when up against necrons? Or even better; what tips would one offer to someone who plays Dark Angels and Harlequins when up against necrons?

If you play Harlequins, I might point you in this direction. I haven't had troubles using this kind of list against Necrons yet. Plus, the guy who writes the series is as witty as he is insightful, and amazingly handsome to boot!

So dakka banner doesnt help?

 Filch wrote:
So dakka banner doesnt help?

Since it got removed from the codex, no, not so much.

Honestly I've yet to find a good answer to necron beyond "accept that you won't kill much, and focus fire to kill the things that are the biggest problem"

Try to brake his mobility and out-manuver him, and/or use assault-as necrons are rather bad there except a few dedicated assault units.

Hey there Sorry to hear you got stomped. That's never fun.

It would help the cause immensely if you let folks know what kind of army you have, and what kind of army your friend fielded.

Dark Angels just got their new codex, and there is some pretty solid stuff in it, but of course, a lot depends on what you have already.

PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
This was a one sided slaughter! I mean my buddy didn't even use the Decurion Detachment. But with formations and what not he was getting 4+ invulns and 4+ resurrection (or whatever it's called) and I just couldn't kill a damn thing.

The ressurection is called Reanimation protocols and I'll be referring to it as RP.

A decurion detachment is detachment where you take a certain type/amount of formations together and get an added benefit for that (army-wide +1 to RP, up to a 4+).

If he was using loose formations, he was technically not using a Decurion, but he actually kind of is.
Apart from a +1 to RP rolls (giving the entire army a 4+ RP at most), there is no difference between a Necron Decurion and a Necron army that consists entirely out of formations.

If he was, for example, using the "Royal court" to bring Crypteks and use them to give 4+ to everything anyway, there really was no difference between what he used and a Decurion.

But compared to Necrons... 2+ rerollable jink is laughable.

Then you're seriously doing something wrong. Necrons with a 4+ armor/invul and 4+ RP have a 75% chance at saving a wound. Necrons with a 3+ armor and 4+ RP have a 83.33% chance of saving a wound.
a 2+ re-rollable cover save has 97.22% chance of saving a wound. Necrons don't have any ignores cover apart from Tomb blades and a C'tan shard of the Deceiver.

To put that into theoretical perspective:
You need to get 2 wounds/glances on something with a 4+ re-rollable to get a wound through. 3 in case of a 3+ armor/invul and 4+ RP.
You need to get 18 wounds/glances on something with a 2+ re-rollable to get a wound through.

So really, as long as your darkshrouds are alive and everything has a 2+ re-rollable, you should be solid against any shooting attack.

But with formations and what not he was getting 4+ invulns and 4+ resurrection (or whatever it's called) and I just couldn't kill a damn thing.

It is impossible to give 4+ invul saves to entire units (apart from HQ's). The only item that gives invul saves to entire units is the Chronometron that Crypteks have, but it gives a 5+ invul.

My suggestions:
- Play Maelstrom of War missions.
You're not likely going to win if you play "whoever kills the most wins", not against necrons. Because Necrons play the staying game. You're playing Dark angels and you're talking about Jink saves. That probably means you've got a lot of bikes. That gives you an advantage when playing Maelstrom missions.

- If your buddy really doesn't want to use the "Decurion", but still wants to play with the same models, I suggest he plays it as an unbound army. Same models, just no formation benefits.

- Make sure you're playing everything according to the rules. If he's giving entire units 4+ invul saves, he's playing his army wrong.

You need to hit them at points where they're weak. So basically you want a toolbox army, rather than a shooty one.

- Try and deny their layered saves by using weapons with AP 3 and 4.
- Try and double out their T to reduce the RP modifier.
- Try and kill their transports ASAP to kill their mobility
- They have no Psykers and are vulnerable in the Psychic Phase.
- They have low Init; tests like Blind and Sweeping Advances will hurt.
- The army is LD10 but it's not Fearless or ATSKNF.
- They have lots of units which can't produce much damage in CC.

There are a lot of ways to accomplish this in the DA codex. Definitely check out Interromancy -- there is some huge potential there.

DaPino wrote:

PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:

But compared to Necrons... 2+ rerollable jink is laughable.

Then you're seriously doing something wrong. Necrons with a 4+ armor/invul and 4+ RP have a 75% chance at saving a wound. Necrons with a 3+ armor and 4+ RP have a 83.33% chance of saving a wound.
a 2+ re-rollable cover save has 97.22% chance of saving a wound. Necrons don't have any ignores cover apart from Tomb blades and a C'tan shard of the Deceiver.

To put that into theoretical perspective:
You need to get 2 wounds/glances on something with a 4+ re-rollable to get a wound through. 3 in case of a 3+ armor/invul and 4+ RP.
You need to get 18 wounds/glances on something with a 2+ re-rollable to get a wound through.

So really, as long as your darkshrouds are alive and everything has a 2+ re-rollable, you should be solid against any shooting attack.

But with formations and what not he was getting 4+ invulns and 4+ resurrection (or whatever it's called) and I just couldn't kill a damn thing.

What you might have missed, that the 2+ rerollable cover unit costs more than twice the warrior.
So yes, the warrior will not absorve as much damage per shot, but will absorve much more per POINT

What works for me is to shift the other way along the Firepower <-> Firevolume slider. Less power, more volume. Make them roll more dice. Heavy Bolters are effective, although assault cannons are probably even better.

As long as your shooting is S4 or better - preferably S5 - and you put enough shots downrange, you should find yourself having more luck.

Black Knights wreck Necrons. Take many and prosper.

Necrons generally have a high Ld, and a low I. If you get access to Eldar Monofiliment weapons, they
They only regenerate when there is a model left standing, so target a unit at a time. Keep on that unit until it is done. Most units seem to get their bonuses from the attached Lord-like boss. Snipe him, and the RP rolls get worse.

For the vehicles, throw everything high-S at them, to take the shield down, then it's easier to kill. CC seems best, but I never got that close.

Keep your squishies out of Tesla range. Gauss hurts anything. Most Necron weapons seem to be 24".

Confirm all of this, as I've only played against them a couple of times.

 Skinnereal wrote:
They only regenerate when there is a model left standing, so target a unit at a time. Keep on that unit until it is done. Most units seem to get their bonuses from the attached Lord-like boss. Snipe him, and the RP rolls get worse.

This is my general go-to for Necrons. Focus every shot on a single unit unit it's all down, then it can't get back up, unless there's a Lord with a Resurrection Orb.

"I'm gonna go play warmachine where there are no obnoxious durability skew tactics."


Pssssssh. Circle make Necrons look like Bruce Lee movie extras.

 Skinnereal wrote:
They only regenerate when there is a model left standing, so target a unit at a time. Keep on that unit until it is done. Most units seem to get their bonuses from the attached Lord-like boss. Snipe him, and the RP rolls get worse.

This isn't true anymore - in the newest Necron codex, Reanimation Protocols are treated the same as Feel No Pain rolls.

Black Knights. Get into assault. Sweep them.

Don't see the issues here... lists would be useful?

 Quanar wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
They only regenerate when there is a model left standing, so target a unit at a time. Keep on that unit until it is done. Most units seem to get their bonuses from the attached Lord-like boss. Snipe him, and the RP rolls get worse.

This isn't true anymore - in the newest Necron codex, Reanimation Protocols are treated the same as Feel No Pain rolls.

Whaaat oh that is so lame. And here I was wondering why everyone was so upset about the Decurion RP bonus.

 Skinnereal wrote:

They only regenerate when there is a model left standing, so target a unit at a time. Keep on that unit until it is done. Most units seem to get their bonuses from the attached Lord-like boss. Snipe him, and the RP rolls get worse.

Yeah, no. RP is always taken now. Doesn't matter how many are in the unit, it's FNP on steroids. Also, a Lord being in a unit matters not anymore, as he doesn't give them any bonuses.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
Hello all,

I'm going to start by saying that this thread isn't anything new. It's mainly just yet another person complaining about Necrons. But at the same time, I'm looking for tips.

Anyways, I played against Necrons for the first time today. And holy moly it was absolutely brutal. I actually conceded by the end of turn 2 because I was getting slaughtered. It was 1500 of my Dark Angels vs 1500 of my buddy's new Necrons. And I thought the option of having (and I was actually using) a 2+ rerollable jink was mean. But compared to Necrons... 2+ rerollable jink is laughable.

This game was one of the few cases where I legitimately questioned why I play 40k over other games like Warmachine. I mean losing is one thing. I've lost before (I actually lose a lot. Still fairly new after all and I face Tau often). But this was INSANE. This wasn't a game. This was a one sided slaughter! I mean my buddy didn't even use the Decurion Detachment. But with formations and what not he was getting 4+ invulns and 4+ resurrection (or whatever it's called) and I just couldn't kill a damn thing.

Enough of my complaining, though. I don't want to go "Welp, with Necrons around, I'm never going to play." and I don't want to refuse to battle my buddy. I mean he bought the models after all! I want to face them and have a decent match. Win or lose, I really don't mind. As long as it isn't a one sided slaughter. So what tips would one offer to someone when up against necrons? Or even better; what tips would one offer to someone who plays Dark Angels and Harlequins when up against necrons?

Most people's first response to Necrons are like this. You'll soon realize that they are not the worst part in 40k, either. Eldar, Admech, and Skyhammer/Gladius marines all make you question your choice in gaming. That being said, Necrons lack mobility, and a lot of their units are vulnerable to CC (if you get luck and kill any). So, play to objectives, tarpit things to reduce their shooting, heck, use Terminators or anything with a 2+ save. Necrons lack AP2 en masse as well.

As a Necron player I'm always surprised at how players don't play to the super high weaknesses of necrons and that's being swept in combat. Even CC units like lychguard lack fearless outside of Zhandrekh and can be swept quite easily. Play to this advantage. If you just stand and try to trade fire with them Ya, you're going to be frustrated as that's their strength. However, if you get up close and personal that vaunted durability will seek trivial.

 buddha wrote:
As a Necron player I'm always surprised at how players don't play to the super high weaknesses of necrons and that's being swept in combat. Even CC units like lychguard lack fearless outside of Zhandrekh and can be swept quite easily. Play to this advantage. If you just stand and try to trade fire with them Ya, you're going to be frustrated as that's their strength. However, if you get up close and personal that vaunted durability will seek trivial.

This is good advice, as most Necrons units are just begging to be swept in CC. You still run into the problem of Canoptek Wraiths, though. Those dudes never just roll over, and now with T5 and access to RP they're that much stronger than last edition.

I sympathize with the OP. I've only had one or maybe two games since the new Codex where I didn't win in one-sided fashion, and I haven't lost with them yet (and I play against good players who give as good as they take for the most part). My Necrons are now basically shelved unless someone tells me they want to play against them.

Necrons are seen as ridiculous in 40k because 40k before this didn't have a true "durability skew" or "control" style army prior to the newcron Dex.


The key to playing against durability skew is to ALWAYS CONSIDER YOUR ODDS of killing anything. Because often, you have a choice between trying to kill something, and not while gaining some safety. Against a normal 40k list it is almost always the better option to try to damage/kill.


Always identify the things you can impede and kill them the best you can. Things that are really hurt by Jinking - destroyers, tomb blades, doomsday arcs - make those Jink. THEN STOP SHOOTING THEM.

Many Necron lists will feature a Deathstar of Lychguard with numerous characters. That? Straiht up ignore it. Avoid it, force it to charge piddly little units, whatever you need to do.

Once you start learning to answer the question "should I leave cover to get that 12" double tap instead of 24" single tap?" With "nope. Playing necrons, that's only gonna net me .2 more wounds, I'll stay back and be more durable" then you'll start doing better against crons.

You won't have more fun, but you're never hon a have fun vs crons.

 buddha wrote:
As a Necron player I'm always surprised at how players don't play to the super high weaknesses of necrons and that's being swept in combat. Even CC units like lychguard lack fearless outside of Zhandrekh and can be swept quite easily. Play to this advantage. If you just stand and try to trade fire with them Ya, you're going to be frustrated as that's their strength. However, if you get up close and personal that vaunted durability will seek trivial.

That's good advice and makes a lot of sense, though I can't say it has actually worked out for me since the new book came out. unless your close combat unit can ignore armor saves, most necron units will ignore the majority of the wounds you throw at them. So if you throw, say, a tac marine at them in close combat, the tacs will drag down maybe a single cron, and then they're actually more vulnerable to the 'crons return attacks. Even things like striking scorpions that are good at melee but not great at ignoring armor won't do so great in that fight. Combined with the high leadership of 'cron units, chances are good that they won't get swept anyway.

This is one of the biggest differences/frustrations the changes to RP have made. With the 5th edition book, you could punch a few 'crons to death, take fewer return attacks as a result, and have a good chance of sweeping the 'crons. Now the 'crons are likely to be hitting you back at almost full strength because RP is immediate. 5th edition RP was interesting because you could focus fire and count on sweeps to get around it. It changed how you played, which was interesting. Currently, the RP rules are less interactive. They provide fewer meaningful choices than before which has the consequence of making 'crons feel unkillable some games. ;_;

That said, melee is, in fact, a good way to go. If nothing else, it keeps those gauss and tesla weapons from actually shooting, and dedicated assault units with the right weaponry can do pretty well.

Although anecdotally, I've watched terminators and thunderwolves lose in melee to warriors since the new book happened. >_>

Yeah, except that Necron warriors almost always win in cc against most units that try to win by sweeping. Watching squads of ork boyz kill exactly one cron is always a fun and engaging experience.

(Nevermind...bad mathhammer in my part)

The key strategies you need to defeat necrons are:
Ap 1-4 weapons to ignore at least one save
Instant death/ high strength weapons to reduce the reanimation protocol save
Necrons have key units that are weak, i.e. Spyders and Canoptek Walkers, take those out first
Ignore the deathstars, especially if they are on foot. They are meant to survive, wait till everything else is dead.
Try and sweep them in combat.

Necrons are weak to psychics (powers and force weapons).

That's because you haven't counted in To Hit rolls for either side, Jasper.

The Necrons kill 4 Orks, and the Orks kill 7 Necrons.

This is of course assuming all Orks reach the fight even after Overwatch and have suffered no casualties on the way there, a rare occurence.

 Ashiraya wrote:
That's because you haven't counted in To Hit rolls for either side, Jasper.

The Necrons kill 4 Orks, and the Orks kill 7 Necrons.

Yeah you're right. I noticed the error in my math after I posted


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

This is of course assuming all Orks reach the fight even after Overwatch and have suffered no casualties on the way there, a rare occurence.

Well, my opponents employ certain strategies that are pretty good at getting big blobs of Ork Boys into combat largely unmolested. No causualties is rare, but few casualties is pretty common IME

the_scotsman wrote:
"I'm gonna go play warmachine where there are no obnoxious durability skew tactics."


Pssssssh. Circle make Necrons look like Bruce Lee movie extras.

This isn't how you spell cryx

The Necrons lose the melee by 3, which means LD7, which means that they are slightly more likely to stay than to run, and if they do run they have equal initiative so the Orks are slightly more likely to catch them.

So the Necrons have about a 75% chance to weather the initial assault. Without charge bonuses, the remaining 26 Orks only have 78 attacks that wound on a 5+, resulting in 3 Necrons dead. Meanwhile, the remaining 13 Necrons inflict slightly more than 3 dead Orks, meaning that the Necrons actually have a higher chance to win the second round of combat...