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Quite a simple one, the question says it all.

I think the game "begins" when you start making any interactions with the rule set. I think that means when you select your army list you are initiating a game.

 Yarium wrote:
I think the game "begins" when you start making any interactions with the rule set. I think that means when you select your army list you are initiating a game.

Except the rules make reference to things happening 'before game begins.'

the game starts WHEN I BLOODY WELL SAY IT STARTS!

Sorry I couldn't resist

Jinx you could cite rules

Now you have innacurate poll, because some people vote based on nongame ideas.

Like you said in other thread:
1. core rules define what does it mean "before game begins", and personally I would stick to that as principal rule.
2. there can be rules that expand/contradict that game begins when we start deployment phase. I don't even know what are they and where to look at them, so my vote may be very wrong...

But until you point me where other rules change core rule I'll stick to it

Vague question, that I intend to use to bludgeon an ill conceived idea upon others by claiming that since X = Y, I must be able to do this stupidly broken thing.

Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

What are you trying to pull this time? What game effect are you trying to take advantage of, or deny, based on these responses?

Sometime after you roll for psychic powers.

But that is all the rules tell us, so we do not know exactly when the game begins, as the rules do not give us this information.


TLDR: It is unknown exactly when the game begins, but it is sometime after you generate Psychic Powers.

 Yarium wrote:
I think the game "begins" when you start making any interactions with the rule set. I think that means when you select your army list you are initiating a game.

Agreed.

I was hoping to remain vague, because I wanted opinions that haven't been swayed by a logical argument presented in the Opening Post.
There is also no gimmick being played here, as I believe the answer is 'undefined, talk to your opponents if there is an issue' and am just curious what others think.

What the results have shown me so far... I should of had a lot more options, such as 'at list building,' to allow for even more viewpoints.

Warlord Traits, Psychic Powers and even deployment feel like 'pre-game' to me. When the counter ticks over to 'Turn 1' that is when the game begins.

JinxDragon wrote:
I was hoping to remain vague, because I wanted opinions that haven't been swayed by a logical argument presented in the Opening Post.
There is also no gimmick being played here, as I believe the answer is 'undefined, talk to your opponents if there is an issue' and am just curious what others think.

What the results have shown me so far... I should of had a lot more options, such as 'at list building,' to allow for even more viewpoints.

Well, we generate psychic powers before game begins. I think we also generate Combat Drugs and Warlord traits at the same time. (I'd have to check chapter and verse on all those to be sure, so don't quote me.)

I would say that by the time deployment begins, game has already begun.

I wasn't going to post these openly, as I didn't want to sway what is an opinion based poll, but I feel it will further any Rule based debate others may be considering:

Flyers must begin the game as Reserves...
...unless they specifically state that Flyers can start the game deployed on the table...
- Aerial Support
They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.
...unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve...
- Deep Strike
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency...
- Independent Character

Can one start the game Deployed, or in Reserves, if the game starts before any Models are Deployed?
Is there another logical reason why these Rules would contain 'Begin/Start of game' terminology?

When does it begin?

My friend, it began 38 minutes ago...

*sips tea*

*adjusts monocle*

JinxDragon wrote:
I wasn't going to post these openly, as I didn't want to sway what is an opinion based poll, but I feel it will further any Rule based debate others may be considering:

Flyers must begin the game as Reserves...
...unless they specifically state that Flyers can start the game deployed on the table...
- Aerial Support
They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.
...unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve...
- Deep Strike
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency...
- Independent Character

Can one start the game Deployed, or in Reserves, if the game starts before any Models are Deployed?
Is there another logical reason why these Rules would contain 'Begin/Start of game' terminology?

From this it looks like the game starts sometime after Deployment.

But still undefined as to the exact time that the game starts.

I did find this in my searching:

‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens
‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and
psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.

One more for your perusal -

The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can
only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that
have joined it). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly
Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as
explained in the vehicle’s entry.

Also

A Flying Monstrous Creature that is deployed at the start of the game starts in Gliding mode.

 Happyjew wrote:
I did find this in my searching:

‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens
‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and
psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.

So, going by all of the above and this, it boils down to:

Before the Game Begins
Deployment
Games Begins
Start of Turn 1

Deployment presents things that happen before the game can begin such as ICs joining units, placing units in Reserve, etc, but everything else that happens "before the game begins" happens before Deployment. This makes Deployment the last thing to happen before the game begins.

Now, does the "Game Begins" and "Start of Turn 1" occupy the same space? I would think so, but that's just because I really can't find anything that actually separates them and how 6th Edition operated. But I can't actually find anything that combines them, either, which is why it is just "think" instead of "know".

The game starts when you select an army. Every step after that point leads to the finale and a hand shake.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The game starts when you select an army. Every step after that point leads to the finale and a hand shake.

SJ

If that were true, how would we generate psychic powers? They must be generated 'before game begins.'

The rule Happyjew quoted seems to indicate that Deployment is the beginning of the game.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The game starts when you select an army. Every step after that point leads to the finale and a hand shake.

SJ

If that were true, how would we generate psychic powers? They must be generated 'before game begins.'

The rule Happyjew quoted seems to indicate that Deployment is the beginning of the game.

Not quite. While everything that happens "before the game begins" happens before Deployment, that doesn't make Deployment the beginning of the game, either. Too many things that happen during Deployment also happen "before the game begins".

So, either Deployment is in a nebulous step between "before the game begins" and "the game begins", or it is caught in a time loop where things happen before Deployment that only actually happen during Deployment.

Since temporal paradoxes give the average person and myself headaches, I go with "Deployment is the last step in preparing for the game before it officially begins".

I do understand what Jeffersonian is saying, and that is the equivalent of saying that the Game includes everything including preparation. To which, he does have a point. But most people only consider a game started when you have the capacity to score. Things like team selection and the coin flip are not included, but usually when the ball is put in to play or the start signal given. They are part of the event, but not the game.

I'm with the above poster. While there are items related to play that occur before a turn is taken, in my mind that's all setup and preparation. In my mind, the game begins once the first turn has begun. When the first player says, "I'm moving these guys from here to there." or "I'm not moving anybody, so now I'm going to shoot that unit with these guys." or, significantly less likely, "Well, you're playing a full-pod list, so since I have no need to move, and there's nothing to shoot or assault, I guess it's now your turn."

If we include setup and army selection as being part of the game, no abilities could be used that say, "Before the game begins, do *something*" because you wouldn't have an army list developed to take advantage. Hell, as soon as you're thinking about an army list, the game would have begun. Potentially months or years before you start rolling dice. My rough-and-ready guide would be that the game starts with the first turn.

[Waiting on second shoe to drop...]

I agree that the game begins when the first player deploys. The "before the game" or pregame is for setting up terrain, rolling for mission, rolling for deployment, and then rolling for warlord traits/psychic powers/assorted other abilities and rules.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
I agree that the game begins when the first player deploys. The "before the game" or pregame is for setting up terrain, rolling for mission, rolling for deployment, and then rolling for warlord traits/psychic powers/assorted other abilities and rules.

Then you can't put anything in Reserves, which includes Deep Strike and Outflank. ICs can only join a unit in Reserves before the game begins, so that leaves that out. See the problem?

For me the game begins as soon as I need my opponent to interact with or witness an action taken due to my army or playing area, not including agreeing to a points cost (my group usually does this a week or more out from the game so we can have time to tweak our lists). So for us it is usually at the time we start setting up the board or if it set up ahead of time then when I need him to witness a roll for psychic powers or warlord traits.

I would say somewhere between Deploymenet and Turn 1 start. For me, at the beginning of the game is once every model is deploy on the board, but before special rule like Infiltrate Scouts and such occur.

JinxDragon wrote:
I was hoping to remain vague, because I wanted opinions that haven't been swayed by a logical argument presented in the Opening Post.
There is also no gimmick being played here, as I believe the answer is 'undefined, talk to your opponents if there is an issue' and am just curious what others think.

What the results have shown me so far... I should of had a lot more options, such as 'at list building,' to allow for even more viewpoints.

For what purpose are you asking this question.

Btw - I know the OP said the question is simple, but there were two ways of looking at it:

#1 - When does the game begin as per effects or rules that must occur "before the game begins"?

#2 - At what point are we have said to have started a game of 40k?


My answer (it starts once you start interacting with the rules) fits #2, but is incorrect for #1. Happyjew stated the correct rules for that.

When my wife asks us 'you've been playing for 2 hours and its only turn 1?!? What taking so long?" I tell her that making my army and ordering pizza in the first hour counted as playing...does that help?

Kronk,
None, seeing what others think as nothing in the book specifically states when the Game begins.

Interesting that there isn't a real clear consensus.