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I use a Paskisher, make him warlord so I can have as PE Plasmacutioner with him, then also have a CCS for the baller regimental advisors.

 vipoid wrote:
I like Yarrick. He's an IC that can issue orders, and is pretty durable as HQs go (especially IG ones).

Merellin wrote:
Also, Why is the Lord Commissar such a bad HQ? Seems quite good to me. Sure he dosent give orders, But I got 2 other command squads to give orders..

Well, for a start, how are you fitting both of those CCSs in your army? You've only got 2 HQ slots and the LC takes up one of them.

I think he meant platoon command squads rather than company command squads. They can issue orders, but don't get the best ones.

Ah, fair enough.

Yes, I did mean platoon command squads. I have 2 platoons, Thus 2 platoon command squads that can give orders to the two platoons. And each unit can only get 1 order per turn right? (Or am I wrong about that?) and if so, Having 2 command squads (1 company, 2 platoon) for 2 platoons seems a bit unnececary..

I dont realy have much of a guard army right now but I have played a larger guard army where I used a Lord Commissar and 2 platoons. I moved the platoons forwards, With the platoon command squads moving after them in chimeras to give orders (Normaly FRFSRF) and that seemed to work well, and was fun. One of the reasons I'm building a guard army now, Cus I had fun.. xD

Depends on the army. I almost always bring a Lord Commissar. It's not the best unit but I like the model and having a decent combat HQ. The other HQ is either a tank commander in a Vanquisher squadron if I run a mech list, or a command squad if its an infantry list

 Grimskul wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait that seems fair to you?

Holy balls batman.

Not to mention some of the ridiculousness of the basis behind the rules. Really? Drinking tea calmly gives you a 6+ invuln. (which is made into a 5+ invuln...) Wouldn't the calmness be effectively represented by ignoring shaken/stun? Not to
mention the orders just being flat out better and the force multiplier effects for only 40 points? At this point might as well slap on the rule that all the weapons it shoots count as strength D.

Feels like someone is definitely feeling the dick envy from other armies if he's thinking that this is "reasonable".

Eh, looking at some of the dickery out there and some of the utter cheesecake I have to deal with she is more than fair. That said, I do agree that she is underpriced and needs increasing. However until we get a codex update I am going to keep her where she is just to balance out the overpriced units I have to bring anyway. It comes down to my opponent and what they want - if they say no I am more than happy to remove her and play her as a regular tank commander.
Once the Imperial Guard get their much needed fix I will review the rules for her and rebalance them based on the new ones - probably increasing the price to 50 or 60 points plus tank (so 275 to 285 instead of 265).

@Grimskul an invulnerable save from drinking tea is no more ridiculous than one gained from wearing a fancy metal arc above your head or believing in the Emprah a lot and always saying your prayers
That said I do like your idea about ignoring the Stunned/Shaken results - that might be a good alternative.

The orders are, however, better, yes. That said have you even seen the current Tank Commander orders? Of the three one of them is there purely to partially nullify the effects of being in a squadron in the first place, one of them is a one use only order (You can only use your Smokes once per game) and the final one is.... Well, nothing special. Given that the Guard need their orders to work our vanilla Tank Commanders (not to mention Pask) need an upgrade.

And I forgot to mention - the Concentrate Fire order only works on cover saves - it was a typo

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait that seems fair to you?

Holy balls batman.

Not to mention some of the ridiculousness of the basis behind the rules. Really? Drinking tea calmly gives you a 6+ invuln. (which is made into a 5+ invuln...) Wouldn't the calmness be effectively represented by ignoring shaken/stun? Not to
mention the orders just being flat out better and the force multiplier effects for only 40 points? At this point might as well slap on the rule that all the weapons it shoots count as strength D.

Feels like someone is definitely feeling the dick envy from other armies if he's thinking that this is "reasonable".

Eh, looking at some of the dickery out there and some of the utter cheesecake I have to deal with she is more than fair. That said, I do agree that she is underpriced and needs increasing. However until we get a codex update I am going to keep her where she is just to balance out the overpriced units I have to bring anyway. It comes down to my opponent and what they want - if they say no I am more than happy to remove her and play her as a regular tank commander.
Once the Imperial Guard get their much needed fix I will review the rules for her and rebalance them based on the new ones - probably increasing the price to 50 or 60 points plus tank (so 275 to 285 instead of 265).

@Grimskul an invulnerable save from drinking tea is no more ridiculous than one gained from wearing a fancy metal arc above your head or believing in the Emprah a lot and always saying your prayers
That said I do like your idea about ignoring the Stunned/Shaken results - that might be a good alternative.

The orders are, however, better, yes. That said have you even seen the current Tank Commander orders? Of the three one of them is there purely to partially nullify the effects of being in a squadron in the first place, one of them is a one use only order (You can only use your Smokes once per game) and the final one is.... Well, nothing special. Given that the Guard need their orders to work our vanilla Tank Commanders (not to mention Pask) need an upgrade.

And I forgot to mention - the Concentrate Fire order only works on cover saves - it was a typo

Oh, don't get me wrong. Imperial Guard are definitely in a rough spot right now, they have plenty of issues regarding their place on the tabletop being superseded by several factions (i.e. space marines getting their own tank squadrons that get buffs for doing so). Just not so much so that they need to respond with ridiculous rules like this or things that are as broken as Necrons or Eldar. Imperial Guard really just needs to reassert their identity as an army in several ways (i.e. regaining lumbering behemoth or an equivalent of some sort in addition to proper pricing and an overhaul of the orders system as you pointed out, for both tank commanders and CCS). The only thing I could see needing strength D (short of super-heavies) is the deathstrike missile since its a bloody ICBM.

Merellin wrote:
Yes, I did mean platoon command squads. I have 2 platoons, Thus 2 platoon command squads that can give orders to the two platoons. And each unit can only get 1 order per turn right? (Or am I wrong about that?) and if so, Having 2 command squads (1 company, 2 platoon) for 2 platoons seems a bit unnececary..

I dont realy have much of a guard army right now but I have played a larger guard army where I used a Lord Commissar and 2 platoons. I moved the platoons forwards, With the platoon command squads moving after them in chimeras to give orders (Normaly FRFSRF) and that seemed to work well, and was fun. One of the reasons I'm building a guard army now, Cus I had fun.. xD

Yes each unit can only get one order per turn, but each Platoon command can only issue one order per turn, not one for each squad in the platoon. So, a Company command squad and two platoon commands would give you 4 orders per turn in total (excluding any extra for warlord traits).
If you combine all the squads in your platoon, then two order will be enough. I like to run lots of separate squads in some missions and like having a range of units that can give orders.

With platoons I run a blob. 30-50 men or so, all blobbed together into one massive squad.

One thing to keep in mind with master of ordinance's ridiculous character is that his regular opponent (apparently) routinely fields homebrew SM characters with Primarch level capabilities and points costs in the mid 200s, so... his idea of "fair" is highly skewed.

I bring the old school ccs and company commander, he was one of the first units I had as a kid and was repainted by my ex. Very centimental. I stick his squad in a chimera and drive around shouting orders and firing a auto cannon out of the back hatch. People in our gaming group call it the "the technical".

Anyway the ccs is worth it for the advisors, the large blast, reserve bonuses and a extra dice for the powers is worth it I think.

I run with them a Lord commisar but he never does much. He's there as a close combat backup, strangely my special little commander ends up doing better. But that's purely down to luck.

 j31c3n wrote:
One thing to keep in mind with master of ordinance's ridiculous character is that his regular opponent (apparently) routinely fields homebrew SM characters with Primarch level capabilities and points costs in the mid 200s, so... his idea of "fair" is highly skewed.

Well that may be a factor but then again there is also the fact that my regular opponents are:

The afore mentioned tank hating Primarch owning (he has six of them, SIX!) Space Marine player and his homebrews.

A Grey Knights player with more 2 wound Terminators than is pleasant to face

A Dark Angels player whom runs Ravenwing (and I have no AA, and no funds to get any for some time)

A Dark Angels player whom runs Deathwing

A Spacewolf/Chaos Nurgle/Vanilla SM 1st Company veteran player

The rest of the club is not much better and as of the last count I am the only active Guard player. Guess what 90% of the others play?

CCS has access to unique orders the PCS lacks as well.

The faster move order from the tank commander is decent. How else can you get a heavy tank to go more than 6"

The CCS needs some way to improve its survivability. Atm its too fragile, even more so than Lord Commissars as they can be attached to massive squads. It's be nice to have bodyguards back, provided they're affordable.

 rahxephon wrote:
CCS has access to unique orders the PCS lacks as well.

The faster move order from the tank commander is decent. How else can you get a heavy tank to go more than 6"

The CCS needs some way to improve its survivability. Atm its too fragile, even more so than Lord Commissars as they can be attached to massive squads. It's be nice to have bodyguards back, provided they're affordable.

I agree, but you can give them the medic and a chimera to sit in.

CCS, all the way.
They get better orders, twice as many, and more choices.
I use mine blank, in a Chimera. Being a Command Vehicle, they're safe, and make the units better. Maybe put a HWT or a pair of specials in there, to shoot out of the hatch.
Vox casters start costing a lot when per-squad, but you only need 1 in a blob.

Start the shooting phase with them, give out the 2 orders from there, and move on to the PCS.
Don't forget, they can order themselves (not when in a vehicle, though.)

For those of you who use CCSs, how do you keep them alive? They seem incredibly fragile for such a vital unit.

 rahxephon wrote:

The CCS needs some way to improve its survivability. Atm its too fragile, even more so than Lord Commissars as they can be attached to massive squads. It's be nice to have bodyguards back, provided they're affordable.

Not sure how much this would help, but it would be amusing if, when a Warlord Company Commander died (or, perhaps when all Senior Officers died), a Lord Commissar could take over as Warlord and gained Senior Officer.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait that seems fair to you?

Holy balls batman.

Not to mention some of the ridiculousness of the basis behind the rules. Really? Drinking tea calmly gives you a 6+ invuln. (which is made into a 5+ invuln...) Wouldn't the calmness be effectively represented by ignoring shaken/stun? Not to
mention the orders just being flat out better and the force multiplier effects for only 40 points? At this point might as well slap on the rule that all the weapons it shoots count as strength D.

Feels like someone is definitely feeling the dick envy from other armies if he's thinking that this is "reasonable".

Eh, looking at some of the dickery out there and some of the utter cheesecake I have to deal with she is more than fair. That said, I do agree that she is underpriced and needs increasing. However until we get a codex update I am going to keep her where she is just to balance out the overpriced units I have to bring anyway. It comes down to my opponent and what they want - if they say no I am more than happy to remove her and play her as a regular tank commander.
Once the Imperial Guard get their much needed fix I will review the rules for her and rebalance them based on the new ones - probably increasing the price to 50 or 60 points plus tank (so 275 to 285 instead of 265).

@Grimskul an invulnerable save from drinking tea is no more ridiculous than one gained from wearing a fancy metal arc above your head or believing in the Emprah a lot and always saying your prayers
That said I do like your idea about ignoring the Stunned/Shaken results - that might be a good alternative.

The orders are, however, better, yes. That said have you even seen the current Tank Commander orders? Of the three one of them is there purely to partially nullify the effects of being in a squadron in the first place, one of them is a one use only order (You can only use your Smokes once per game) and the final one is.... Well, nothing special. Given that the Guard need their orders to work our vanilla Tank Commanders (not to mention Pask) need an upgrade.

And I forgot to mention - the Concentrate Fire order only works on cover saves - it was a typo

I like the Veteran Team ability, I think Pask should have that as that is a fair point cost. I run a pure tank army so abilities like that and Tea would be really good if incorporated into the next codex. However you do know you could make the Stormlord a troop choice seeing how it is a tank and not a dedicated transport with the Senshado ability. Now the tank is expensive but it's the same price as getting a normal tank with the same loadout, the character it's self and the abilities the character brings is just underpriced. A character like that I would say no less than 60 points. I mean you are made BS5, can fire ordnance weapons with no drawbacks, you have a 5+ invun on you warlord who is on a tank with 14/11/10 armour and you have the potential to fir a second str 8 ap 3 shot and you can splitifre at 3 different targets.

I think the rules themselves are great I would like to make a homebrew commander with some of them abilities like the increase of BS on other tanks for 10+ points. But you need to increase the price. I know that tanks can be destroyed very easily but then look at previous editions, like 5th edition where you guessed if you hit your enemies no premeasuring. They go back and forth one edition is super shooty the next it's all about assault like when power weapons just plain right ignored armour, no ap stuff. That hurt guard with their power swords as they now have no chance against termies. You just have to make though the storm and stop complaining.

However your case is a rare one with all your 1st company opponents, so just pack in executions and pass their 2+ armour or a Deathstrike. And what can they do with their normal men when you can just pack up cheaply on Wyverns which are just deadly even for MEQs, they could pack up on transport then your Vanquishers just 1 hit take them out or your hydras take out their air transport.

*Chuckles* Not quite young padiwan. The Spliitfire, firing Ordnance with no drawbacks (Something a Russ should do anyway) and the re-rolling cover saves are all orders - this means that you have to pass a LD test to use them and a troop can only be affected by one order per turn. So sadly no splitfire reroll successful cover saves dakka blitz.... For now anyway.

I am glad that you like my design although you seem to have made a slight miscount when adding up the points - without Darjeeling the tank is a mere 225 points with its upgrades. Still you are right, this does not stop her being cheap for what she does and I agree that a points increase is needed.... Although I still really want to wait for the new codex to drop first.

Hadnt thought about the prospect of SH tanks being available as troops choices - as much as I like it it will need retconning.

Anyway, as I said I am glad that you liked some of the aspects.

(PS, I have never managed to get the second shot off. Ever. )

I run straken because.. reasons. But in all seriousness it's because his rules fit the the fluff of my regiment's commander the best. That, and watching a guardswoman pump out 5x S7 AP2 attacks on a charge after plasma and autocannon shooting is always fun to watch when it all comes together.

I love Straken as a character, he's just so expensive even with fearless, relentless and handing out Furious charge and counter attack (fun times with bullgryns) to anything within 6" I don't think he's worth it but darn it is he fun!

 Jimsolo wrote:
What book is he from?

Imperial Armor 11: The Doom of Mymeara.