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 warboss wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Wasn't one of the original design concepts for the Tau way back when they were created that they were a rapid reaction force with lots of aircraft, fast transports, and NO TITANS?

I've been asking that for months and no one has been able to provide me an actual source quote. People just took the simple abscence of titans to mean that the Tau are specifically against titans and that fanfic took on a life of its own for over a decade until the introduction of the Riptide suits and their fluff.

If I recall correctly, the lore concerning Tyranids states they've been evolving since first official contact with the Imperium to elaborate on the lore from when they were first produced by GW. Back then, they only had Screamer-Killer Carnifexes, since then they've become what they are now, and GW has justified that by altering the lore to state they've been evolving.

I like that the timeline is built upon rather than stagnant, that while Tau may not have emphasized large war machines initially, expansion of the Spheres has led them to make suits such as the KX139 as they encountered other massive war machines. It makes the game and lore much more organic and interesting.

Look at the design of all the stealth suits as well. It's really neat how they changed over time from the XV 15 all the way up to the 95Ghostkeel. We even have a schism with the Farsight Enclaves. Personally I never liked the Ethereals anyways.

 Knockagh wrote:

SpyderG6 wrote:

Thamor wrote:
Is it possible that the new HH book will be out for the Open Day? I'm looking forward to getting a RoW for my Blood Angels.

I think it's a good possibility. Fw has been pretty good about releasing one book in the spring and one in the fall since they started the HH.

Can anyone please give me some advice on collecting these books? I have been looking at them for a while and am at a point were I have too many models needing painted to buy anymore so I was thinking of buying into these books.

Do they all have a pretty heavy fluff content, or is it only the first one or two that are fluff heavy? In other words are they worth it? I like reading rule books but not at this money, but if I get some really good, 60% plus, fluff that I don't get elsewhere with some super art I could go for them.

You won't be disappointed at all by the contents. They're off the scale in terms of quality of fluff, art and game content. That said I'm not sure that any level of quality justifies the prices they charge for them. If you can stomach the price, don't let doubts about the content hold you back. They're masterpieces.

They're still cheaper than college textbooks that have worse paper, and less color inside. And I can truthfully say that of the two, the FW books are the only ones I've read fully.

 warboss wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Wasn't one of the original design concepts for the Tau way back when they were created that they were a rapid reaction force with lots of aircraft, fast transports, and NO TITANS?

I've been asking that for months and no one has been able to provide me an actual source quote. People just took the simple abscence of titans to mean that the Tau are specifically against titans and that fanfic took on a life of its own for over a decade until the introduction of the Riptide suits and their fluff.

I'm positive that came from the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Vol.3. It was in the fluff section to explain why Tau have no titans, and why instead they have stuff like the manta.

Oviouesly that has now been reconnected because I Imagen the giant suits and mechs have been selling better then the air planes lol.

Also it's cheaper than being a video gamer in Canada.

Prices on new games have risen 20 dollars in four months. Then they carve out a huge season pass that's like 45. Then they carve out some DLC from the season pass like skins or weapons or pay to win stuff so that's another 45$.

Then the game might suck ass anyways and you never want to play it more than two hours.

Gee 170+ for a game that's got all its content on day 1 and sucks absolute crap and you might only play for one hour. Game quality has gone so far down the crapper on the PC in the last year I can't see myself buying new games to support greedy developers.

Some games like Evolve had hundreds of dollars of day 1 DLC you couldn't even play. And that was before the prices started going up.

40k is now officially cheaper and more valuable of a money investment than trying to be a gamer (if you pay full price). Some games might only be 5 hours for that 80+ meanwhile a 45 dollar squad of troops each infantry can take me 4-6 hours depending on detail.

I will say 40k has a higher initial cost but is quickly being much cheaper than video games in the mid and possible long term. Less greedy. Somehow.

Also it helps our FLGS can usually get anything except FW for 10% off if you order a large enough order.

Edit
FW is still stupid pricey though.

 Lockark wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Wasn't one of the original design concepts for the Tau way back when they were created that they were a rapid reaction force with lots of aircraft, fast transports, and NO TITANS?

I've been asking that for months and no one has been able to provide me an actual source quote. People just took the simple abscence of titans to mean that the Tau are specifically against titans and that fanfic took on a life of its own for over a decade until the introduction of the Riptide suits and their fluff.

I'm positive that came from the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Vol.3. It was in the fluff section to explain why Tau have no titans, and why instead they have stuff like the manta.

Oviouesly that has now been reconnected because I Imagen the giant suits and mechs have been selling better then the air planted lol.

Page number please. Lots of people think it is somewhere but no one can prove it. Also, people confuse not having at that moment larger suits (true previously since there were no rules, models, or mentions of them) with being against larger suits (not true anywhere I've seen) and with not being able to use/make larger suits (not true until GW introduced the riptide fluff which promptly was invalidated by the riptide). There is a difference between not currently visibly using titans, can't use titans, and won't use titans. People took the first and extended it to the latter two for a decade.

The triple-barreled arm guns look an awful lot better in the final product, at least.

 Temujin wrote:

 Knockagh wrote:

SpyderG6 wrote:

Thamor wrote:
Is it possible that the new HH book will be out for the Open Day? I'm looking forward to getting a RoW for my Blood Angels.

I think it's a good possibility. Fw has been pretty good about releasing one book in the spring and one in the fall since they started the HH.

Can anyone please give me some advice on collecting these books? I have been looking at them for a while and am at a point were I have too many models needing painted to buy anymore so I was thinking of buying into these books.

Do they all have a pretty heavy fluff content, or is it only the first one or two that are fluff heavy? In other words are they worth it? I like reading rule books but not at this money, but if I get some really good, 60% plus, fluff that I don't get elsewhere with some super art I could go for them.

You won't be disappointed at all by the contents. They're off the scale in terms of quality of fluff, art and game content. That said I'm not sure that any level of quality justifies the prices they charge for them. If you can stomach the price, don't let doubts about the content hold you back. They're masterpieces.

I've got the first two (got a great deal and got both for £100 ) and they seem to be a real mixture of fluff and rules. The artwork is mainly photos of the models that have been heavily photoshopped, or colour plates of vehicles and infantry.

My understanding is that all of the books have been mixed like this. If you're looking for just rules, then you'd probably want to look into the red books.

 warboss wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Wasn't one of the original design concepts for the Tau way back when they were created that they were a rapid reaction force with lots of aircraft, fast transports, and NO TITANS?

I've been asking that for months and no one has been able to provide me an actual source quote. People just took the simple abscence of titans to mean that the Tau are specifically against titans and that fanfic took on a life of its own for over a decade until the introduction of the Riptide suits and their fluff.

I'm positive that came from the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Vol.3. It was in the fluff section to explain why Tau have no titans, and why instead they have stuff like the manta.

Oviouesly that has now been reconnected because I Imagen the giant suits and mechs have been selling better then the air planted lol.

Page number please. Lots of people think it is somewhere but no one can prove it. Also, people confuse not having at that moment larger suits (true previously since there were no rules, models, or mentions of them) with being against larger suits (not true anywhere I've seen) and with not being able to use/make larger suits (not true until GW introduced the riptide fluff which promptly was invalidated by the riptide). There is a difference between not currently visibly using titans, can't use titans, and won't use titans. People took the first and extended it to the latter two for a decade.

Just had a read through my copy and can't see a direct quote that states this - there are several references to the fact that "Hunter Cadres had been badly handled by Titans" and the like and Taros see's the first use of the Tigershark AX-1-0 Variant which the Air Caste have produced to try and defeat this type of enemy. I guess the idea is that both the Air and Earth Castes have approached the problem in different ways......

Still hate the new model though.............

Page number please. Lots of people think it is somewhere but no one can prove it. Also, people confuse not having at that moment larger suits (true previously since there were no rules, models, or mentions of them) with being against larger suits (not true anywhere I've seen) and with not being able to use/make larger suits (not true until GW introduced the riptide fluff which promptly was invalidated by the riptide). There is a difference between not currently visibly using titans, can't use titans, and won't use titans. People took the first and extended it to the latter two for a decade.

IA 3 1st Edition, Tiger Shark Page , pg 198 , paragraph 6 , describing the AX-1-0 variant designed to combat titans.
"Until the Taros Campaign the Tau had few weapons capable of stopping the Imperium's greatest war machine's , but the air caste and earth caste had secretly developed the AX-1-0, and first fielded it on Taros"
This is also repeated in IA 3 2nd Edition , pg 185 . There are also some brief descriptions of Tiger sharks meeting Legio Warhounds in the Breakthrough on the Iracunda Isthmus ( pg 121 1st edition ,pg 102 2nd editions) which repeat the above statement and describe the destruction of the warhound "Advensis Primaris" and the withdrawal of the Legio Ignatum from the battle after the loss of the Warhound under the guns of a Tiger Shark .
In the Taurus campaign and in previous encounters the Imperium only recognized the firepower of the Manta as being comparable or even a threat to their Titan forces
The introduction of the Tiger Shark Titan killing variant added a second weapon system that the Imperium knew of that could face their Titans on an semi-equal footing .


I guess "few weapons" statement above could be interpreted in a very sympathetic manner as not out-right ruling out Tau Titan-like creations , but I think they just though it would be cooler to give the Tau some big titan like battlesuits rather than stick to previous model of large titan killing aerial systems only .

Remember that Taros was two years before present in 40k.

And the tau are actively designing new weapon systems all the time to deal with new battlefield situations. Like having to hold ground outside of megalithic traitor human cities because the humans won't be able to retreat as fast as tau would.

Put a giant mobile gun platform out there, job well done.

 keas66 wrote:

Page number please. Lots of people think it is somewhere but no one can prove it. Also, people confuse not having at that moment larger suits (true previously since there were no rules, models, or mentions of them) with being against larger suits (not true anywhere I've seen) and with not being able to use/make larger suits (not true until GW introduced the riptide fluff which promptly was invalidated by the riptide). There is a difference between not currently visibly using titans, can't use titans, and won't use titans. People took the first and extended it to the latter two for a decade.

IA 3 1st Edition, Tiger Shark Page , pg 198 , paragraph 6 , describing the AX-1-0 variant designed to combat titans.
"Until the Taros Campaign the Tau had few weapons capable of stopping the Imperium's greatest war machine's , but the air caste and earth caste had secretly developed the AX-1-0, and first fielded it on Taros"
This is also repeated in IA 3 2nd Edition , pg 185 . There are also some brief descriptions of Tiger sharks meeting Legio Warhounds in the Breakthrough on the Iracunda Isthmus ( pg 121 1st edition ,pg 102 2nd editions) which repeat the above statement and describe the destruction of the warhound "Advensis Primaris" and the withdrawal of the Legio Ignatum from the battle after the loss of the Warhound under the guns of a Tiger Shark .
In the Taurus campaign and in previous encounters the Imperium only recognized the firepower of the Manta as being comparable or even a threat to their Titan forces
The introduction of the Tiger Shark Titan killing variant added a second weapon system that the Imperium knew of that could face their Titans on an semi-equal footing .


I guess "few weapons" statement above could be interpreted in a very sympathetic manner as not out-right ruling out Tau Titan-like creations , but I think they just though it would be cooler to give the Tau some big titan like battlesuits rather than stick to previous model of large titan killing aerial systems only .

I wouldn't say that is a very sympathetic reading but rather that the take home message is that the literal reading of that quote states definitively that there ARE other weapon types capable of handling enemy titans. Now obviously the old str 10 ap1 broadsides and current hammerhead fit that description as well as the manta but in no way, shape, or form does it preclude larger suits. It doesn't either prove nor disprove the existence of larger tau suits (not necessarily titans as the same justification was used to whine about the Riptide when it came out and that is "just" a monstrous creature). People somehow extended that to mean that Tau absolutely don't have titans and/or are morally against them in terms of their battle ethos... neither of which is true. The air and earth caste of one sept developed the Tiger Shark variant and in the meantime the manta was previously pressed into service as well in the role...all while another sept had the fire and earth caste come up with the supremacy suit.

I never claimed that titans actually for sure existed but my argument is rather with folks who pretend that their fanfic of titans definitely NOT existing and that the tau are against using titans. That later set of "no titans evAr!" fanfic claims has no basis in the actual fluff but is rather a fan made extension of it. The riptide, stormsurge, and supremacy suits do NOT break any actual existing fluff but rather are official extensions and fleshing out of it as the timeline progressed. The fluff previously was just not filled in enough to say either way. It's the Tau analog to the Russians coming out with both the IS series of tanks as well as the Sturmovik to destroy enemy tanks; one doesn't preclude nor negate the other despite both of them fulfilling similar roles.

Even if there actually was a quote in a codex or FW IA book (the only two real sources). the tau fluff is specifically geared to having them adapt and change to suit their needs unlike the Imperium. They're one of only three factions (orks, nids, and tau) that readily do so and to shackle them to one style seems stupid to me. Luckily for me, no one has yet found any factual basis that precludes larger tau suits up to and including titans. The trend is clear, supported by the fluff (if only previously by the ABSCENCE of any mention either for or against and now currently including them)... xv 8/88 to xv9 to riptide to bigger riptide variants to missiletide to supremacy suits.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Wasn't one of the original design concepts for the Tau way back when they were created that they were a rapid reaction force with lots of aircraft, fast transports, and NO TITANS?

I've been asking that for months and no one has been able to provide me an actual source quote. People just took the simple abscence of titans to mean that the Tau are specifically against titans and that fanfic took on a life of its own for over a decade until the introduction of the Riptide suits and their fluff.

I'm positive that came from the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Vol.3. It was in the fluff section to explain why Tau have no titans, and why instead they have stuff like the manta.

Oviouesly that has now been reconnected because I Imagen the giant suits and mechs have been selling better then the air planted lol.

Page number please. Lots of people think it is somewhere but no one can prove it. Also, people confuse not having at that moment larger suits (true previously since there were no rules, models, or mentions of them) with being against larger suits (not true anywhere I've seen) and with not being able to use/make larger suits (not true until GW introduced the riptide fluff which promptly was invalidated by the riptide). There is a difference between not currently visibly using titans, can't use titans, and won't use titans. People took the first and extended it to the latter two for a decade.

Just had a read through my copy and can't see a direct quote that states this - there are several references to the fact that "Hunter Cadres had been badly handled by Titans" and the like and Taros see's the first use of the Tigershark AX-1-0 Variant which the Air Caste have produced to try and defeat this type of enemy. I guess the idea is that both the Air and Earth Castes have approached the problem in different ways......

Still hate the new model though.............

Huh, I never owned the 1st edition of that book. But remember being told that fluff from someone who owned that book and telling me they read it in it. They must of misunderstood the story about getting their butt kicked by titans.

Can we move on from the fluff discussion? Whatever the fluff has or hasn't said in the past, now the Tau use Titans. Whether that's a retcon or not is really irrelevant.

Back to the shiny models!

 insaniak wrote:

Back to the shiny models!

I think GW has worked the 'shiny' angle to death and now people are going 'Now, wait a moment...."

 insaniak wrote:
Can we move on from the fluff discussion? Whatever the fluff has or hasn't said in the past, now the Tau use Titans. Whether that's a retcon or not is really irrelevant.

Back to the shiny models!

Apoc and IA are both Forgeworld products, aren't they? If FW is changing the fluff, that seems like it would be on topic for this thread, wouldn't it? Or are we only allowed to talk about models?

 Jimsolo wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Can we move on from the fluff discussion? Whatever the fluff has or hasn't said in the past, now the Tau use Titans. Whether that's a retcon or not is really irrelevant.

Back to the shiny models!

Apoc and IA are both Forgeworld products, aren't they? If FW is changing the fluff, that seems like it would be on topic for this thread, wouldn't it? Or are we only allowed to talk about models?

This is News and Rumors about upcoming things. Minis, books, and all that good stuff we want to get our hands on when they come out.

Discussing possible retcons or fluff, etc. would be for another forum.

 warboss wrote:
Even if there actually was a quote in a codex or FW IA book (the only two real sources). the tau fluff is specifically geared to having them adapt and change to suit their needs unlike the Imperium. They're one of only three factions (orks, nids, and tau) that readily do so and to shackle them to one style seems stupid to me. Luckily for me, no one has yet found any factual basis that precludes larger tau suits up to and including titans. The trend is clear, supported by the fluff (if only previously by the ABSCENCE of any mention either for or against and now currently including them)... xv 8/88 to xv9 to riptide to bigger riptide variants to missiletide to supremacy suits.

So when are we getting Tau ninja warriors with lightsabers, then? When are they going to "adapt" to the inevitability of close combat in the 41st millennium? When is the whole "disdain for close combat" going to become "fanfic" that we came up with ourselves for over a decade?

Hell, the existence of Farsight alone is all the justification we need, really. Clearly the Tau are not above hitting people with swords after all. If anything it makes a lot more fething sense than the stupid Gobots they keep shoving down our throat.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Even if there actually was a quote in a codex or FW IA book (the only two real sources). the tau fluff is specifically geared to having them adapt and change to suit their needs unlike the Imperium. They're one of only three factions (orks, nids, and tau) that readily do so and to shackle them to one style seems stupid to me. Luckily for me, no one has yet found any factual basis that precludes larger tau suits up to and including titans. The trend is clear, supported by the fluff (if only previously by the ABSCENCE of any mention either for or against and now currently including them)... xv 8/88 to xv9 to riptide to bigger riptide variants to missiletide to supremacy suits.

So when are we getting Tau ninja warriors with lightsabers, then? When are they going to "adapt" to the inevitability of close combat in the 41st millennium? When is the whole "disdain for close combat" going to become "fanfic" that we came up with ourselves for over a decade?

Hell, the existence of Farsight alone is all the justification we need, really. Clearly the Tau are not above hitting people with swords after all. If anything it makes a lot more fething sense than the stupid Gobots they keep shoving down our throat.

Well they have the Honour Guard guys - they may become lethal in CC?

Also Fire Warrior (game) had individual shields and long swords so may be cited Maybe the new pack is a shield generator?

 Gamgee wrote:
Also it's cheaper than being a video gamer in Canada.

Prices on new games have risen 20 dollars in four months. Then they carve out a huge season pass that's like 45. Then they carve out some DLC from the season pass like skins or weapons or pay to win stuff so that's another 45$.

Then the game might suck ass anyways and you never want to play it more than two hours.

Gee 170+ for a game that's got all its content on day 1 and sucks absolute crap and you might only play for one hour. Game quality has gone so far down the crapper on the PC in the last year I can't see myself buying new games to support greedy developers.

Some games like Evolve had hundreds of dollars of day 1 DLC you couldn't even play. And that was before the prices started going up.

Edit
FW is still stupid pricey though.

Still a LOT cheaper than some of my hobbies. Hobbies will always be expensive. $600 to get my open water, $2500 for 6 days in the bahamas, $2200 for 7 days in Utila. 40k and video games are cheap. $7000 for a motor cycle, $60 a month for insurance, $350 for tires every year, plus gear and other maintenance. And I won't get into skiing...

Why would you compare a vehicle to 40k costs? You can't drive with models, nor use them to get to work :p Video games are a fine comparison, but vacations are used for a very different purpose.

More Knight gubbinz on the way from Forge World....Mechanicum style. This was on the Bulletin today.

Looks like there's another suit coming our way sooner or later.

Looks to be a Cerastus Knight variant.

Indeed it is, though this one will be the first Mechanicum one.

Ooh, pretty. I'm so glad that I warmed up to the Cerastus pattern. When they first came out they just looked odd to me, but now I like the body in general. Some of them (not that one) still have silly helmets, but that's the easiest part to fix.

That looks awesome.

Lol with the size of that telescopic eye it could see into far reaches of space.