Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They have to give themselves room to grow. If they just did everything at once they likely wouldn't sell as much.

Oh, will AT mean we finally get our Lucius pattern Warlord back?!

I would find a way to buy one of those! Not that Mars pattern ugly duckling.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
As far as AT goes, I'm just disappointed that it's going to be Heresy only, I'm far more interested in running Phantoms, Revenants, Cobras and Scorpions than Imperial units.

I believe that they've already said that IF this is a success (Ha!), then they will expand into other eras and other races...

I wouldn't believe the Specialist Games guys would miss the opportunity to open up other ( xenos etc) lines. I'm not surprised it's not all available at once though. Adeptus Titanicus and then later Space Marine, are steeped in the Horus Heresy and even back in those days, Eldar, Orks etc followed on in good time.

From where I'm sitting, returning to specialist games is something of an experiment and directly follows on from the change in management at senior ranks, so someone upstairs has given it the nod on a trial basis, so the specialist games folks are going to go for the biggest sellers right off the bat, and that means imperium and keeping the cost down means both sides using the same molds in the starter. If that sells well enough, then we'll see expansions and added forces.

Regardless of the price, AT will be my first Warhammer related acquirement in what, 6 years?

Super excited for the book alone! Finally we will see some updated badass titan art. Knowing FW, the book alone will be worth for all the art and the fluff. The game rules are just a bonus for me.

 SickSix wrote:
Oh, will AT mean we finally get our Lucius pattern Warlord back?!

I would find a way to buy one of those! Not that Mars pattern ugly duckling.

Ha!

MARS PATTERN IS BEST PATTERN!

I really don't like the blockhead versions - and I'd bet (hope?) that since FW is starting with HH, we'll get the proper, aesthetically pleasing and clearly superior Mars Patterns to begin with.

But, since I want everyone to be happy, I hope they eventually get to producing...that other variant too!

I think Mars pattern of everything will probably happen first, seeing as those are the current big sellers, yes-yes?

But it might be interesting to see FW's take on the Lucius pattern. Just like the current Mars Warlord is an update to the original.

Lucius Pattern armoured plates for the 28mm Warlord, anyone ? It's doable, right?

Also isn't the 28mm Mars Warlord actually the smallest pattern of Warlord? I could have sworn FW said that when it was being released. I think the old Epic Lucius pattern would be much bigger if scaled to 28 mm.

Any updates on stats for the guns or pike/shields for the skitarii upgrades?

So not much of the new things were shown. I am really disappointed, I was expecting way more. And I am still waiting on my Alpharius /Omegon combo.

 Alpharius wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Oh, will AT mean we finally get our Lucius pattern Warlord back?!

I would find a way to buy one of those! Not that Mars pattern ugly duckling.

Ha!

MARS PATTERN IS BEST PATTERN!

I really don't like the blockhead versions - and I'd bet (hope?) that since FW is starting with HH, we'll get the proper, aesthetically pleasing and clearly superior Mars Patterns to begin with.

But, since I want everyone to be happy, I hope they eventually get to producing...that other variant too!

No love for the metallicus pattern?

Vorian wrote:
Warlord / Reaver isn't much difference to Leviathon / Contemptor ratio.

If I were to guess from Andy Hoare's gesture of how big a warlord was going to be - I think Leviathon pricing is the right kind of region.

Like I said, people are going to be surprised if they expect to pay Leviathan prices for an 8mm Warlord.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Again though, if we're expecting a Contemptor-sized and roughly Contemptor-priced Reaver, how can a model that should be almost twice the size and much bigger mass only cost £10 or so more?

For one, a lot of the added mass is an illusion, with much of the upper carapace of the warlord being armor plates on a framework rather than solid structures.
A lot of the price of a resin model is in the number of parts/ cast complexity, rather than the amount of resin used (look at those vent blocks on big kits- it adds up to several pounds of excess for 28mm titans) With the decrease to 8mm scale, some minor parts can be deleted, and the warlord is not many more parts than the reaver (especially when you consider the torso is a hollow box). A major point of note is the feet of the reaver vs the warlord- the Reaver has far more complex toes than the warlord, which will need to be streamlined for the epic scale one, while the warlord is simple and uses a lot of the same parts multiple times, vs unique ones.

I don't see the relevance man, if the Reaver is going to be roughly the same size as the Contemptor, it will be a similarly complex miniature with a similar price. Ergo, the Warlord will be proportionately more, regardless of how much either has to be simplified from the 28mm designs.

I don't care how much they cost. I am in. AT sounds like it will be an absolute blast.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Oh, will AT mean we finally get our Lucius pattern Warlord back?!

I would find a way to buy one of those! Not that Mars pattern ugly duckling.

Ha!

MARS PATTERN IS BEST PATTERN!

I really don't like the blockhead versions - and I'd bet (hope?) that since FW is starting with HH, we'll get the proper, aesthetically pleasing and clearly superior Mars Patterns to begin with.

But, since I want everyone to be happy, I hope they eventually get to producing...that other variant too!

No love for the metallicus pattern?

OK, I really like that Warlord Pattern - more than the soon to be released after it Battletech Pattern!

I'm excited for the AT game, but have questions for people at the Forgeworld Open Day:

Does Forgeworld plan to add cheap-ish tanks and knights, so players can build up an armored force? Or, is the game considered to be primarily about Titans? If Tanks, did they say anything about the new tanks for 30k, Fellblade, fast attack tank, etc.?

Did Forgeworld say anything about a mass Epic 40k style game for 30k battles, using the models created for AT?

I do think that the prices will be a problem, a mass battle game with a high price point may not be anywhere near as popular as Forgeworld hopes. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this.

 zedmeister wrote:
For all you CRASSUS fans, just spotted this on Heresy30k:

I just got told by an attendee who spoke with Alan that "Arkhadine" is a misnomer and "Zhao-Arkkad" is the actual, proper name of the Thousand Sons-affiliated mechanicum. Alan also confirmed that it's the same Zhao-Arkkad we know of, meaning they're the owners of the Praetor STC and eventually rejoin the Imperium.

This is very interesting...

I wrote that

I started working on the paint scheme but it's a bit of a tricky one.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
As far as AT goes, I'm just disappointed that it's going to be Heresy only, I'm far more interested in running Phantoms, Revenants, Cobras and Scorpions than Imperial units.

I believe that they've already said that IF this is a success (Ha!), then they will expand into other eras and other races...

Well aware of that, but the big question mark in there is IF.

Er, so you already knew the answer? OK!

I don't think there's any doubt that this will be a success and we'll get all the Other Stuff in there eventually.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, so you already knew the answer? OK!

I don't think there's any doubt that this will be a success and we'll get all the Other Stuff in there eventually.

Really? If the army costs are about 500, assuming a Warlord and Warlord equivalent are about 125, I can't see the game becoming so much of a success that Forgeworld expands it. That is still pretty expensive for an unproven game system from a company known to drop the games it creates.

Where are those prices coming from?

I overestimated by about 25UD. Here is the logic:

If the Warlord is about the size of a Leviathan Dreadnought, which costs 72 GBP, then that comes to around 100 USD per Warlord. (this was reported earlier from the open house)

Assume that dollar cost per gameplay point is constant and that a player requires 4 Warlord equivalents to field a full campaign force, and you reach 400 USD, before the terrain and rules.

Now, it could be the case that a resin model the size of a dreadnought costs significantly less than a dreadnought, but that is a pretty bold assumption.

 Yaraton wrote:
So not much of the new things were shown. I am really disappointed, I was expecting way more. And I am still waiting on my Alpharius /Omegon combo.

It was a FW Open Day, not a HH Weekender or similar.

The main HH line seems to have done ok - despite the (eye watering) costs

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, so you already knew the answer? OK!

I don't think there's any doubt that this will be a success and we'll get all the Other Stuff in there eventually.

Really? I have no doubt it will make FW a profit, but if the pricing is what I think it will be I have strong doubts it will be big enough to generate substantial further investment in the line. Aeronautica Imperialis was a fantastic game with lovely models, but it was expensive enough that only a subset of a niche audience bought in and it flopped, hard. AT won't flop of course; the starting niche is bigger, it has nostalgia working for it, and it will probably be better promoted thanks to the ongoing Heresy series, but I don't see how anyone can be so utterly sure it's going to be an unstoppable roaring success that will inevitably see expansions and plenty of new factions - I don't know many folk who would be willing to drop £300-ish for a standard buy-in(not including rules) on a niche specialist game when that cash could be buying stuff for games they know for a fact they'll be able to play every week.

EDIT: OK, and lets squish that one right away: the main HH line is expensive, yes. It's also entirely compatible with 40K - if you collect Space Marines you don't have to choose between 40K Marines and 30K Marines in any sense other than which aesthetic you prefer, the models are almost completely interchangable. The rules are also a branch of 40K rules and so don't have any effort-barrier. AT will be a new(to most) system with models that can be used for AT, they two are not equivalent from the logical position of someone with a limited hobby budget seeking to maximise value for money.

I guess we'll see?

Of course, the only way we'll know its a success is if it's still around, and new stuff keeps showing up, so...it may take a while before someone can claim bragging rights!

But yeah, I think it will do quite well.

It is pretty much the only thing GW/FW that I plan on purchasing for the foreseeable future.

Yodhrin wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Again though, if we're expecting a Contemptor-sized and roughly Contemptor-priced Reaver, how can a model that should be almost twice the size and much bigger mass only cost £10 or so more?

For one, a lot of the added mass is an illusion, with much of the upper carapace of the warlord being armor plates on a framework rather than solid structures.
A lot of the price of a resin model is in the number of parts/ cast complexity, rather than the amount of resin used (look at those vent blocks on big kits- it adds up to several pounds of excess for 28mm titans) With the decrease to 8mm scale, some minor parts can be deleted, and the warlord is not many more parts than the reaver (especially when you consider the torso is a hollow box). A major point of note is the feet of the reaver vs the warlord- the Reaver has far more complex toes than the warlord, which will need to be streamlined for the epic scale one, while the warlord is simple and uses a lot of the same parts multiple times, vs unique ones.

I don't see the relevance man, if the Reaver is going to be roughly the same size as the Contemptor, it will be a similarly complex miniature with a similar price. Ergo, the Warlord will be proportionately more, regardless of how much either has to be simplified from the 28mm designs.

I think FW will tend to initially sell these on the lower end of what similarly sized 40k models cost... but these models are still gonna be on a level of complexity with enough parts and volume that they're gonna cost.

With resin models there are two main factors that add to the cost, number of parts and volume of resin determine by how the model is eventually molded. These titans in the 8mm scale are similar in size to 40k scale models. A 8mm Reaver will likely cost the same as a Contemptor because even if they want to make the Reaver hollow in places it means more parts which means more molds and more work to cast.

What will be interesting to see is if they will do Titan Legion specific upgrade bits or if like they did with the Contemptors do complete faction specific versions.

DrRansom wrote:I'm excited for the AT game, but have questions for people at the Forgeworld Open Day:

Does Forgeworld plan to add cheap-ish tanks and knights, so players can build up an armored force? Or, is the game considered to be primarily about Titans? If Tanks, did they say anything about the new tanks for 30k, Fellblade, fast attack tank, etc.?

Did Forgeworld say anything about a mass Epic 40k style game for 30k battles, using the models created for AT?

I do think that the prices will be a problem, a mass battle game with a high price point may not be anywhere near as popular as Forgeworld hopes. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this.

AT is a 30k era game focused completely on Titans and Knights. They plan on expanding into infantry and tanks and then eventually expanding into 40k to cover xenos, but only if the game continues to be successful enough for long enough.

aka_mythos - thanks for the response. I hope that it is successful enough to expand into infantry and tanks, to give a large-scale combined arms 30k game.

A lot depends upon the cost per army, I think.

FW used to sell 2x Warhounds at 6mm scale for £19, is they raise that to say £25 for 8mm scale that wouldn't be too bad.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Aeronautica Imperialis was a fantastic game with lovely models, but it was expensive enough that only a subset of a niche audience bought in and it flopped, hard.

I don't think this is true at all. AI was actually pretty reasonably priced. For example, a pack of two Thunderbolts was only £12.00, or about $20. Contrast that with X-Wing ships at $15 each for models that are roughly the same scale. X-Wing is stupidly popular and gets tons of praise for how affordable it is, which doesn't fit at all with calling AI expensive.

The real problem with AI is that hardly anyone even knew it existed. GW did nothing at all to market it so unless you went poking around that corner of the FW website you'd never hear about it. And if you did try to get into it you'd have the full work of building a community, GW wasn't going to help you at all. It doesn't matter how affordable a game is if you don't have anyone to play it with. X-Wing could easily have suffered the same fate if it hadn't hit the necessary critical mass to keep drawing in new players, and we'd all be talking about how great it was when there were those old Star Wars ships selling for cheap prices and isn't it sad that nobody bothered to play.