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I have just come into a lot of imps and am interested run a swarm list i have
4 tie from the starter box
1 tie expansion
Imperial Aces
Tie Defender
Tie Phantom
2 tie advanced
2 tie interceptor expansion
tie bomber

Welcome to Imperials! You could try something like Howlrunner + 4x Academy pilots and Soontir Fell with push the limit and a shield upgrade...For a swarm you really just need Howlrunner and as many ties as you can fit. After you put in your five tie fighters, the remaining points can be spent on conforming the list to your play style. Want mobility? Interceptors or phantoms. Want durability? Defender. The bomber and advanced (without the new cards from the raider) aren't going to be optimal choices but you can make them work if you want to play them. Good luck!

Bombers do work, but they need a bit of thought. They can actually work well in a swarm - after all, they're tougher than an X-wing for significantly less points.

If you want a swarm, though, you've got 5 TIE fighters.
That's a good starting point.

The next question is if you want Howlrunner - normally an easy one, because her ability suits leading a swarm so well - and what the rest of the swarm consists of.

Academy Pilots are cheap, and good at blocking.

Obsidian Squadron Pilots cost you a point more, but shoot before most people's 'filler' ships and are less vulnerable to stuff like Predator.

Black Squadron Pilots cost you a point again, but are the cheapest 'caddy' for elite pilot talents - that's very useful for things like Wingman or Draw Their Fire

Equally, named TIE pilots other than Howlrunner are generally good value for points. Dark Curse and Backstabber, particularly, are very good indeed. You can make quite an effective squad by just taking the six named pilots (well, you can't as you'd need one more TIE fighter, but you know what I mean).



4-5 TIE fighters and an Interceptor ace is a nice list. Soontir Fel is always an option, but I'd actually consider Carnor Jax instead - he's not as good in a solo duel but his ability supports a TIE swarm much better - TIE fighters en mass have ferocious firepower but in many little chunks rather than one big one - which makes green dice your big problem and in turn means knocking out your opponent's ability to focus or evade potentially lethal.

Howlrunner with Determination
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot

Carnor Jax with Push The Limit & Shield Upgrade

You could try something like this:

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Tactician (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

"Howlrunner" (18)
Swarm Tactics (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You'll need Veteran Instincts, which I don't know if you have. Without it, Whisper is really vulnerable since she can't rely on shooting at PS 9 and cloaking.

how about this?

“Howlrunner” (22) TIE Fighter (18), Determination (1), Hull Upgrade (3)
Dark Curse (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Backstabber (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Winged Gundark (18) TIE Fighter (15), Hull Upgrade (3)
“Scourge” (22) TIE Fighter (17), Wingman (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Scourge is still a long way off, I wouldn't bet on the Gozanti being out prior to six months from now.

 th3eviltwin wrote:
how about this?

“Howlrunner” (22) TIE Fighter (18), Determination (1), Hull Upgrade (3)
Dark Curse (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Backstabber (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Winged Gundark (18) TIE Fighter (15), Hull Upgrade (3)
“Scourge” (22) TIE Fighter (17), Wingman (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Is the Hull Upgrade really worth it on TIEs? For the 15 points you spent, you could get a whole other TIE.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 th3eviltwin wrote:
how about this?

“Howlrunner” (22) TIE Fighter (18), Determination (1), Hull Upgrade (3)
Dark Curse (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Backstabber (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Winged Gundark (18) TIE Fighter (15), Hull Upgrade (3)
“Scourge” (22) TIE Fighter (17), Wingman (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Is the Hull Upgrade really worth it on TIEs? For the 15 points you spent, you could get a whole other TIE.

In my opinion, not it's not worth it. Aside from the fact that Scourge isn't released yet and therefore not tournament legal (though you could proxy him for friendly games), those 15 points are better served buying an Academy Pilot.

When it comes to fragile ships like TIEs, more is better.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 th3eviltwin wrote:
how about this?

“Howlrunner” (22) TIE Fighter (18), Determination (1), Hull Upgrade (3)
Dark Curse (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Backstabber (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Winged Gundark (18) TIE Fighter (15), Hull Upgrade (3)
“Scourge” (22) TIE Fighter (17), Wingman (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Is the Hull Upgrade really worth it on TIEs? For the 15 points you spent, you could get a whole other TIE.

In my opinion, not it's not worth it. Aside from the fact that Scourge isn't released yet and therefore not tournament legal (though you could proxy him for friendly games), those 15 points are better served buying an Academy Pilot.

When it comes to fragile ships like TIEs, more is better.

That's what I thought at first, but when it comes to "named" TIEs, I thought of it a bit differently. You get another Hull on those special abilities that you want to keep, and 15 points gets you 3 hull points of another TIE, but gets you 5 overall Hull points on other ships.

So, I dunno. I guess it's not the worst way to spend points.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 th3eviltwin wrote:
how about this?

“Howlrunner” (22) TIE Fighter (18), Determination (1), Hull Upgrade (3)
Dark Curse (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Backstabber (19) TIE Fighter (16), Hull Upgrade (3)
Winged Gundark (18) TIE Fighter (15), Hull Upgrade (3)
“Scourge” (22) TIE Fighter (17), Wingman (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

Is the Hull Upgrade really worth it on TIEs? For the 15 points you spent, you could get a whole other TIE.

In my opinion, not it's not worth it. Aside from the fact that Scourge isn't released yet and therefore not tournament legal (though you could proxy him for friendly games), those 15 points are better served buying an Academy Pilot.

When it comes to fragile ships like TIEs, more is better.

That's what I thought at first, but when it comes to "named" TIEs, I thought of it a bit differently. You get another Hull on those special abilities that you want to keep, and 15 points gets you 3 hull points of another TIE, but gets you 5 overall Hull points on other ships.

So, I dunno. I guess it's not the worst way to spend points.

It's too many named TIEs, most which are low PS, with abilities that don't synergize well with each other.

Scourge isn't tourney legal, so he's out of the question if he wants to play anything other than friendly games. Backstabber needs to be flanking, so keeping him with the swarm makes his ability useless, meaning you'll have to split a five ship swarm. Also, someone like Dash is going to punish him with a range 3 shot before he makes a difference. Winged Gundark needs to be at range 1 to use his ability, preferably from behind (with Backstabber), or otherwise his ability is useless. Getting him in range 1 and in arc of something like Corran, Fel, Vader, Whisper, or any fat turret means he's probably going to die before making a different (even with Hull Upgrade). So you're essentially paying extra points for abilities that probably won't be used and then tacking more points on them by giving them all Hull Upgrades.

Howlrunner and Dark Curse are the two most useful TIEs in the game and keeping them is a no brainer. Dropping the other sub-par named TIEs and Hull Upgrade from Dark Curse allows you to field seven TIEs, which is much better. This is a proven list that was runner-up at the 2013 World Championship:

"Howlrunner" (18)
Determination (1)
Hull Upgrade (3)

"Dark Curse" (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm not enthusiastic about all the Hull Upgrades.

Edit - whoops, had this page open for a long time it seems!

I've seen a few swarms that stick a low PS Phantom without ACD mixed in with the TIEs. Since it flew with them and stayed as part of the swarm, some folks tended to start ignoring it.
Then he started throwing 4 dice with a Howlrunner reroll...

So with what you have:
Howlrunner with Hull Upgrade
Phantom Sigma Squad
Academy Pilot x4
This leaves you 6 points. Maybe Rebel Captive and Stealth on the Phantom (5 green dice while cloaked). Or bump him up to PS 5 Shadow and give him ACD...but keep him with the swarm.

KellyJ wrote:
I've seen a few swarms that stick a low PS Phantom without ACD mixed in with the TIEs. Since it flew with them and stayed as part of the swarm, some folks tended to start ignoring it.
Then he started throwing 4 dice with a Howlrunner reroll...

So with what you have:
Howlrunner with Hull Upgrade
Phantom Sigma Squad
Academy Pilot x4
This leaves you 6 points. Maybe Rebel Captive and Stealth on the Phantom (5 green dice while cloaked). Or bump him up to PS 5 Shadow and give him ACD...but keep him with the swarm.

If you're going to add a Sigma Phantom, it should have at least a Stygium Particle Accelerator on it. It comes in handy if you need to turtle up and cloak. Fire Control System is pretty nice as well because a Phantom with a Target Lock is really dangerous. ACD is definitely nice, but it's twice as expensive than SPA so there is that to take into consideration.

If you take dark curse I'd heavily consider stealth device on him over hull upgrade. He has the best defensive ability in the game, and giving him a 4th green die and a focus token makes him maddeningly difficult to hit.

If you end up picking up a wave VII ship that has extra munitions I would try this.

Howlrunner: Push the limit, stealth

Dark curse: stealth

Academy TIE x3

Scimitar bomber: extra munitions, proximity mines

The bomber is cheap and is a highly effective counter to your biggest weakness, enemy aces. Fly him in formation with the TIEs and wait for a good time to sick him on an enemy corran horn or soontir fel. He moves at PS2, which lets you move before the ace and plop a mine he can't dodge on top of him. This makes him a fire magnet, which combined with howlrunner's PTL and stealth will make target priority harder for your opponent if you focus evade on the initial pass. Dark curse also makes a cheap closer ship for the endgame that will be hard to take out, and can be split from the swarm if need be.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Howlrunner: Push the limit, stealth

Stealth Device is okay, but Hull Upgrade is probably a little bit better. Push the Limit is not a good choice for a TIE fighter for a couple of reasons. For one, they only have three actions and PtL is much better on something with four actions. Second, they don't have nearly enough green on their dial to handle getting stressed making them even more predictable. Giving Howlrunner Swarm Tactics means one more TIE can shoot at PS 8, meaning it might get to do some damage before it gets destroyed.

The only idea behind it is to tank with howlrunner, as I've never seen someone shoot at other ships if howlrunner is out. Ptl to focus/evade with stealth is extremely tough to crack, especially if the opponent only runs two ships as people love to do these days. Then you hit back with your other TIE's. Getting one other TIE up to PS 8 with swarm tactics won't do you much good if howlrunner can't even survive the first pass. So I set up howlrunner to be defensive. Try it sometime, it works better than you'd think.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Howlrunner: Push the limit, stealth

Stealth Device is okay, but Hull Upgrade is probably a little bit better. Push the Limit is not a good choice for a TIE fighter for a couple of reasons. For one, they only have three actions and PtL is much better on something with four actions.

I'm a fan of Stealth Device on high-agility ships - it's equivalent to a hull upgrade if you only manage to avoid 1 damage, and it's twice as good if you manage to avoid 2.

The logic with PTL+Stealth Device with Howlrunner is to turtle up with focus+evade. You would then pair her with a Black Squadron pilot with wingman to pull off the stress (since there's not a lot of green on the TIE fighter dial).

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Howlrunner: Push the limit, stealth

Stealth Device is okay, but Hull Upgrade is probably a little bit better. Push the Limit is not a good choice for a TIE fighter for a couple of reasons. For one, they only have three actions and PtL is much better on something with four actions.

I'm a fan of Stealth Device on high-agility ships - it's equivalent to a hull upgrade if you only manage to avoid 1 damage, and it's twice as good if you manage to avoid 2.

The logic with PTL+Stealth Device with Howlrunner is to turtle up with focus+evade. You would then pair her with a Black Squadron pilot with wingman to pull off the stress (since there's not a lot of green on the TIE fighter dial).

I understand the your thinking, but it's not logical.

A TIE fighter with Stealth Device can killed in one shot. So you have an Evade token? That's nice, Dash is still rolling at least four dice at range 3 (and can still land crits on rerolls), a Phantom is rolling four dice (five at range 1) and probably with a Target Lock, B-wings are going to be rolling at least 3 dice (four at range 1) also probably with a Target Lock, and Corran is rolling three dice (four at range 1) and then he'll double tap you with a Target Lock.

At the end of the day you're still spending 24 points on a TIE fighter that needs another 16 point TIE fighter (Black Squadron Pilot + Wingman) to make work the way you want. So you've spent 40 points, almost half your squad points, on two ships that can be one shot off the board by any ace.

And yet people still fly fel all the time and rely on focus/evade/stealth to keep him alive in a pinch. These are TIEs, everyone knows they can be one shot, thats why theyre TIEs. The odds of a player rolling 4 hits is very low, and with the evade token he HAS to roll that to kill you on the first pass. Your suggestion leaves her practically guaranteed to die on the first pass, whereas the stealth/ptl cmbo gives her a healthy chance of surviving, or at least eating up enough shooting to buy your other ties another round or two of life to get in that oh so critical damage. For a tie swarm, that's insanely important, as the first few turns decide the game, and 6 points is entirely reasonable to more than double her survivability.Your opponent either burns up multiple shots and tokens to knock her out, leaving himself open to the return volley, or goes for an easy guaranteed kill on an academy and lets howl live another turn. It's a lose lose for the other guy and only terribly bad luck would cause howl to get oneshotted with 4 evade base and a focus/evade. I know people like to moan about fickle green dice but guess what, you're playing TIEs. If you want to avoid green dice play b wings.

Of course, it all comes down to preference, but given he only has 5 TIEs anyways, he may as well beef up howlrunner a little as its not like he can spend those points on a 6th tie anyways. Obviously a 7 TIE swarm is the most 'optimal' choice, but he doesn't have that option, so I provided him an alternative he can run right now with minimal investment. THAT is why I suggested howl with ptl/stealth. It's a proven effective combo for TIEs and pairs beautifully with howls tendency to be a fire magnet to buy your regular TIEs more time. This is different than swarm tactics on her, which makes her a massive no brainer and glaringly obvious lynchpin to your strategy. As opposed to the stealth/ptl howl where the opponent has to make a tough choice between the easy to hit scrub or the hard to hit leader, yours makes the choice asy for the opponent and does nothing to your advantage in return.

Can you understand where I'm coming from now? It's more than just "lol howlrunner lives forever this way", its to make the opponent have a hard choice and either buy your generics more passes or even make it through the first pass with all your swarm intact. It just synergizes better for a squad where there's a singular ship that is key to making the rest better and can easily be picked out.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Can you understand where I'm coming from now?

I also understood where you were coming from, I just disagree with you. One extra hull point will always be worth more to a ship than an extra green dice that can go away (unless you have Autothrusters, then you should probably use Stealth Device). It's well known that red dice are more reliable than green dice, that's why people complain about them (just look at the dice, this game is tilted towards offense). So Howlrunner is going to attempt to turtle? That's fine, kill her three wingmen. Any two ship list has enough offense to take out at least one Academy Pilot before it even gets to shoot, maybe even two. Before the game even really starts, you're down to three TIEs and you could expect the next one to get shot down soon after, leaving you with two TIEs worth forty points that can't kill anything. Add in the easy target that is the TIE Bomber and you've definitely lost the game.

Simply put, upgrading TIE fighters isn't going to make a five TIE fighter mini-swarm any more threatening. There is no decent list that would be worried about five TIEs with Howlrunner as its ace, not even fat pancakes because it isn't enough ships to make a difference. Flying a five TIE mini-swarm is not a proven list; it needs to be seven (or eight) TIEs to be effective. If he still wants to fly a swarm, he either needs more TIEs or to add different ships to it. Like this:

"Howlrunner" (18)
Swarm Tactics (2)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Swarm Tactics (2)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Darth Vader (29)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Howlrunner" (18)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder (He would need the new TIE Advanced fixes for this list)

Thank you for the all advice , also seeing how a don't want to run big ships is the swarm my only option, ?

"Howlrunner" (18)
Squad Leader (2)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Swarm Tactics (2)

"Dark Curse" (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

"Winged Gundark" (15)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 th3eviltwin wrote:
Thank you for the all advice , also seeing how a don't want to run big ships is the swarm my only option, ?

"Howlrunner" (18)
Squad Leader (2)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Swarm Tactics (2)

"Dark Curse" (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

"Winged Gundark" (15)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

No, you have lots of options.

If you are dead-set on flying a swarm and you cannot field seven or eight TIEs, the "high-damage" swarm I posted in my last response is what you want. You could drop Swarm Tactics on Mauler Milthel and Howlrunner which would free up 5 points to spend on whatever you want (Hull Upgrade on Howlrunner is a good place to start). That is list is preferable over yours because of the inclusion of second Alpha Squadron Interceptor. The Darth Vader + TIE mini-swarm I posted would work quite well, probably better than the first six ship "high-damage" list, if you have the new cards from the Raider expansion.

Really, I think the strongest list you can make is "Whisper" + Howlrunner mini-swarm. It was the runner-up at the World Championship last year and I personally have used it for some time and have had tournament success with it.

TIE INTERCEPTOR: · Turr Phennir (25)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)
TIE INTERCEPTOR: · Soontir Fel (27)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)
TIE PHANTOM: · "Whisper" (32)
Fire Control System (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 th3eviltwin wrote:
TIE INTERCEPTOR: · Turr Phennir (25)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)
TIE INTERCEPTOR: · Soontir Fel (27)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)
TIE PHANTOM: · "Whisper" (32)
Fire Control System (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Fel needs Push the Limit, it's practically mandatory on him. Also, Whisper needs Veteran Instincts because she needs to more last and shoot before everyone else in order to survive (and make use of Advanced Cloaking Device). Your best bet is to drop Turr and try something like this:

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Rebel Captive (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You could switch out Rebel Captive for Recon Specialist for the extra focus. I like Rebel Captive over Recon Specialist because it discourages people from shooting at Whisper, especially ships with Push the Limit or others that are weak to stress (like Brobots). You could also drop the Royal Guard Pilot down to a Saber Squadron Pilot to free up an extra point if you need it.

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Unnamed Squadron
Points: 98 / (2 left)
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Unnamed Squadron (98)

"Whisper" — TIE Phantom 32
Veteran Instincts 1
Fire-Control System 2
Rebel Captive 3
Advanced Cloaking Device 4
Ship Total: 42
 
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Stealth Device 3
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 35
 
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Extra Munitions 2
Proximity Mines 3
Ship Total: 21
 
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TIE Phantom

"Whisper" (32)

42
Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Remove Pilot
TIE Interceptor

Soontir Fel (27)

35
Push the Limit (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Remove Pilot
TIE Bomber

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

21
Extra Munitions (2)

No Torpedo Upgrade

No Missile Upgrade

No Missile Upgrade

Proximity Mines (3)

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Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (unreleased)
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