Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been trying to add something to my Grey Knights to make them a little more scary & durable but that's been kind of a challenge. I added Inquisition after reading up on them and deciding they would help my GK with their deep-strikes and that proved to be fairly helpful and for some reason people seemed afraid of Coteaz and my Ordo Xenos Inquisitor which made me grin. However as helpful as they are I still struggle dealing with many opponents.

I've always considered having a true Space Marine army but I was kind of bored by seeing a lot of the same factions in my FLGS and I saw/heard about a list that uses a character named Sevrin Loth. I really like the idea of this guy and being a potent psyker is something I like as well. Many of the local players love using Tigerius and that's cool and everything and he definitely is effective but after reading up on Sevrin and the fluff of the Red Scorpions I decided they are a faction I would like to go with. I haven't bought the Codex for Space Marines so I'm not sure if they benefit from Doctrines if they use Red Scorpion CT but I really like the fact that their tactical squads get an apothecary and they have options to re-roll morale/pinning.

Grey Knights
Librarian: Warding Stave, Psyker[ML3], DLD
Paladin Squad: 2 Force Sword, 2 NDH, 2 Halberd/Psycannon
Strike Squad: 5 NFS, 1 Incinerator
2 X Nemesis Dreadknights: NGS, PT, HI, HP
Kaldor Draigo
Space Marines: Red Scorpions
Magister Sevrin Loth: Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Psyker[ML3]
2 x Scout Squds: 5 Man in Land Speeder Storm DT
Inquisition
Inquisitor Coteaz

The list I saw using Sevrin Loth uses Centurions and I like those models and I might look into them in the future but for now I wanted to use the models I have and take a unit of Paladins instead and rather than pick psychic powers from Telepathy looking at Invisibility I was looking at Biomancy for Iron Arm, Endurance and the one that buffs initiative. I think this would help me contend with some of the scary abundance of St8/AP2 weapons available currently. Then I might roll my Librarian solely on Sanctic or primarily Telepathy(for invis/shrouding) All of the characters go with the Paladins to buff them and jump around - splitting off when necessary. I don't have any kind of H&R but Draigo provides a way to leave combat in a pinch.

I still feel pretty thin but I really like paladins and I want to make them viable. Any thoughts would be great!

I looked at paladins for a long time. My biggest issues with paladins is they have no storm shield. A storm shield is need when you don't have 5 toughness. That whole strength st8/ap2 weapons all over the place makes the extra wound and feel no pain worthless. Three ironclad dreads could charge you and kill 5 paladins without much trouble, the halberd guys might get a hull point if you hammerhand before. And paladins don't get to select psychic powers... they just a have hammerhand and banishment?
Now you could get paladins with the apothecary and make them hangout with kaldor draigo then try to allocate all the wounds to him with his +3 save EW with FNP.

The bottom line for me was that taking normal terminator was the best option. Terminators for the points out classed the strike squads and paladins.

And if you are looking for horde killers pick up purifiers.

I also like their buff to WS - wish for an Elite seemingly Melee centric army they would be good at Melee..

well that's not fair I guess they are supposed to be psyker centric but they do rely heavily on melee seeing as how they are limited on heavies.

Good advice though... just wish there was a way around this.

why cant paladins be viable =((((

they are the reason i bought grey knights, and i always play with them, always get insta kill and i always cry

They are elites in melee combat, they all carry s6 ap3 force or better melee weapons. No other army does that. That can wound most everything and can damage many vehicles - ignore most armor saves. The cost is a low model count and low model count/wounds get you killed by torrents of bullets or bodies. Enemy can have more wounds then your attacks can take.

I don't think paladins can be of any real use until they have EW or a 5 toughness or much lower point cost. Too many things that make them a into a 33 point terminator that cost 55 points.

I have been looking into mixing tau and grey knights. The tau for shootiness that grey knights lack...

Paladins for what you get aren't worth the cost period, last time they were rly usable was 5th when draigo was making them Troops . You just get a pure gain with just running terminators over the pallys. Awell you put way too much into a deathstar that will get very often tarpited. Dont see a point of torqemada alone where you've got no heavy hiting shooters to benefit his IBEY.
Severin loth is good but only on a cent star and now you don't even need gks for it imho awell me personally seeing loth in a non tournament scenario makes me thing rather bad about opponent and deploy the most stinky counter for gks ever whitch is cullexus. However it's you that plays and in a friendly environment paladins can just work ok and deffo our negative opinions bout pallys shouldn't put you off.

Grubass wrote:
Paladins for what you get aren't worth the cost period, last time they were rly usable was 5th when draigo was making them Troops . You just get a pure gain with just running terminators over the pallys. Awell you put way too much into a deathstar that will get very often tarpited. Dont see a point of torqemada alone where you've got no heavy hiting shooters to benefit his IBEY.
Severin loth is good but only on a cent star and now you don't even need gks for it imho awell me personally seeing loth in a non tournament scenario makes me thing rather bad about opponent and deploy the most stinky counter for gks ever whitch is cullexus. However it's you that plays and in a friendly environment paladins can just work ok and deffo our negative opinions bout pallys shouldn't put you off.

How do you deploy a counter? You make your lists after your opponent? That's fethed up.. I'd never play you

Nope but pretty much every star fielded by gk has loth or tigurius and me and people I play with tend to exchange the lists and set up how tryhard we do in advance

Hi Hi! I believe the list you're referring to is mine from earlier this week/last week!

- Not sure on Scouts as they don't benefit from your FnP granted by the chapter rule; tell me how they do :].
FnP seriously makes killing tac marines a real tedious task and allows them to hold objectives longer! Again, it's free.)

- Paladins are terrible in this edition - I love them too but we have to wipe the tear from the cheek and get past it. That's from experience and general fact. Unless you focus Loth on Invisibility they're going to get smashed - that being said Paladins are still not as good as Terminators. The reason why I use Centurions also because they can kill things via range and don't need to rely on charging. They can't be one hit by str8 either, being T5. Also Coteaz works wonders here as the ever so popular striking lists have to re-think their deep strike locations. I am a threat with them in both player turns! :]

- Libby is great providing you focus on using Santic to make good use of the 25pts relic.

I can post more but for the moment I have put a tiny bit. I hope my post helps even if it just bumps up your thread!

Yes definitely - while it pains me to say I think I will have to forego the Paladins for now. I might have to look into some centurions - I wonder if their are any models on Forgeworld that would make for good stand-ins for them? I don't mind the normal ones it just doesn't seem like they'd be able to move unless by the psychic might of GoI

Those are some very helpful tips... especially for the CT I'm going for. I might consider re-working to add in Tac Squads in stead. Do they still benefit from Tactical Doctrines/Gladius? I haven't got the Codex yet but it is in my plan.

It would also be nice to be able to focus my GK Libby on Sanctic for that potential Sanctuary/Vortex of Doom!


and as for what majortwitch said you're absolutely right I forget not everyone has force weapons stock.

I'll have to stick with regular termies it seems - they are a bit pricey for what you get (which isn't bad... just isn't quite enough)

Thank you guys this is all helpful stuff!

I have since rebuilt my list. As it is now ready for my upcoming event I didn't bother posting it. I'll pm it you some time if you'd like. Currently on the phone so please bear with any errors!

As for the gladius idea I don't see why it wouldn't work. Go for it.

I am happy you've set sights on the vortex and sanctuary spells; they're the best picks really; do remember the ndks can cast sanctuary too! As for GoI, that is the primary method of transportation with the cents. Like 100% of the time.

As for model stand-ins. Nearest I found was from puppetwars. Type in ' paladin' or 'engineer'. They're also cheap models across the whole range. I was originally going to buy from them.

Also consider how many warp charges you'll have minimum per turn!

Yeah that would be great! As simple as Marines must be I feel somewhat puzzled by the options