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Eldar are a tough army to face. We have one Eldar player in out club. He brings very toned lists but they are still very very good. I play mostly daemonkin, sometimes Daemons. They're not Ravenwing but daemonkin are also a very fast, aggressive army so I think my experience will help.

1st: Eldar are an army of specialists. Each aspect warrior is good at one thing, bad at others. Try to take them out of their comfort zone. Assault the dire avengers, guardians, fire warriors, dark reapers, and rangers. They aren't bad in CC but will die quick and can't use their amazing guns when they're stuck in CC. A full Ravenwing bike squad should be able to handle any of the above in CC.
Same goes for the CC aspect warriors, take them out of their comfort zone and shoot them to death. Not sure what you're bringing but Black Knights or a HB attack bike squad should do serious damage to a squad of the CC aspect warriors; Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, and Warp Spiders. A lot of these units can move very quickly so try to shoot them up before they charge. Only Howling Banshees have power swords so watch out for them but the rest of 'just' the eldar equivalent of assault marines, no AP but lots of attacks and moves quickly

2nd: Eldar sergeants are called Exarchs are pretty scary. They get access to unique wargear and are much better than the rest of the squad. If the eldar player is dumb enough to put them out front, shoot them to gak and kill him first. The Exarch WILL wreck your sergeants in CC. They will go first and often (In my experience) have ap2.

3rd: Onto fast units. jet bikes, Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks. You think Ravenwing are fast? You got nothing on these guys. Jet bike squads (when they have scatter lasers people call them scatter bikes) will run circles around you, lighting you up with their amazing guns. You best bet is get in into CC ASAP. A general strategy for facing jetbikes is to get to the middle of the table ASAP. From there the eldar have less room to move. Use one unit chase them and another to charge them. Hopefully your opponent won't spam them because they are pretty OP. Swooping Hawks, don't really worry about these guys. Their s3 guns won't do much to SM bikes. They get a blast when they DS, it ignores cover but is only s4 ap4. I would just ignore these guys if you oppoent brings them. Shining Spears are basically CC jet bikes, they get s6 ap3 the first round of CC. They will shred a bike squad in oen round. Shoot these guys before they start recking your bikes.

4th: Wraith units. Wraithguard/ blades, wraithlords, and wraithknights. Guard/ blades are the easiest to deal with. t6 with a 3+ will die quick to plasma guns. Blacks Knights will make short work of these guys. They can't charge out of the transport and are slow after so dance around them and plasma them to death. Lords go up to t8 and have IIRC 3 wounds. These will give you trouble. At range they have good guns are decent in CC. Watch out because they are characters and so can challenge. Lascannons are your best bet. Plasma will hurt but only en mass. TH/SS terminators should be able to handle him as long as the 3++ is enough to survive. Melta will only wound on 4s but is better than plasma. Haven't seen new Dark Angels but those are my suggestions. Sorry but I can't really help with Wraithknights. If your opponent brings one I would suggest praying to your emperor for a good death. You will get it. If the eldar player brings two, don't play the game. Seriously, you won't stand a chance, might as well not waste taking your models out.

5th: Vehicles. They dish out a lot of hurt but can't take much. most are only AV12. Eldar vehicles are fast but not as fast as jetbikes, your bikes should be able to catch them shove a melta bomb up their ass. Krak grenades should also work as they are only AV10 rear IIRC. Of course melta guns will work too but it always seems they have an annoying cover or invul save. Melee is a safer bets as it gets rid of cover and you have more attacks.

Hope this helps. Eldar are a tough army but can be beaten if you know what you're doing. Watch out for cheese lists though. Most eldar players these days only play them because they are good.

Eldar has a harder time to battle a drop podding army with full tacticals. In five turns or so, its not so easy to remove 60 Marines.
On the other hand, small Elite armies are usually not a big deal for a competitive Eldar army.

" In five turns or so, its not so easy to remove 60 Marines. "

Have you looked at their codex?

Grab some Skitarii, lumigen (-1 coversave) then omnispex (-1 coversave) -2 cover 3 arc rifles will fry 1 wave serpent a turn also icarus array because yes my 5 s6 ap 5 rockets need ignore cover XD

 Dalek Sec wrote:
1st: Eldar are an army of specialists. Each aspect warrior is good at one thing, bad at others. Try to take them out of their comfort zone. Assault the dire avengers, guardians, fire warriors, dark reapers, and rangers. They aren't bad in CC but will die quick and can't use their amazing guns when they're stuck in CC. A full Ravenwing bike squad should be able to handle any of the above in CC. Same goes for the CC aspect warriors, take them out of their comfort zone and shoot them to death. Not sure what you're bringing but Black Knights or a HB attack bike squad should do serious damage to a squad of the CC aspect warriors; Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, and Warp Spiders. A lot of these units can move very quickly so try to shoot them up before they charge. Only Howling Banshees have power swords so watch out for them but the rest of 'just' the eldar equivalent of assault marines, no AP but lots of attacks and moves quickly

This is, in my opinion, the big reason Eldar are so powerful - this is no longer true.

Warp Spiders are not specialists. They have decent RoF, high Str, pseudo-rending guns, high mobility, good armor, and h&r in case combat happens. Few and far between are the targets they won't fair well against.

Dire Avengers are a good baseline infantry unit, supposedly good at range. They now have built-in charge defense, and you get to pick one of two flavors for it.

Swooping Hawks used to be relegated to rooting out 4+ or worse saves who hide in cover. They can now haywire flyers out of the sky. Also, they move farther. Because reasons.

Dark Reapers slaughter MEQ. They now also do this to anything that relies on jink, or moved faster than cruising speed.

Scatbikes are universally good. High RoF, long-range, high Str guns on stupidly mobile 3+ Sv T4 troops.

D-Scythes turning to StrD makes them only worse against things they used to wound on 2s. So, grots. They're worse against grots.

Banshees, Scorpions, Spears, and Fire Dragons retained specialist identities (imo). They simply got better at those jobs. Yet these are rarely fielded. Wraithguard do what Fire Dragons do, but better, and vs more targets. Banshees, Scorpions, and Spears aren't needed when assaults don't happen due to volume of fire. Maybe you need to access the enemy backline - a job suitable for the Scorpion infiltrate or Spears surgical strike. Or, you flat out your jetbikes and you're there. Maybe you need to kill some 2+ or 3+ save infantry threatening to assault you, the Banshees' ideal target. Movement + Battle Focus coupled with all shuriken guns being rending deals with this, or Jetbikes move, shoot, and assault jump away.

By and large, Eldar are specialists no more.

Martel732 wrote:
" In five turns or so, its not so easy to remove 60 Marines. "

Have you looked at their codex?

I've shelved my Eldar for obvious reasons.

I was gonna say. Give me 5 turns, and my BA sometimes can kill 60 marines. 60 marines is not hard for Eldar at all.

Martel732 wrote:
I was gonna say. Give me 5 turns, and my BA sometimes can kill 60 marines. 60 marines is not hard for Eldar at all.

If the Marine player plays smart, it will be not easy.
Six Pods arriving in turn 1 can do some damage. The units can be combat squadded and now the enemy faces 12 units.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I was gonna say. Give me 5 turns, and my BA sometimes can kill 60 marines. 60 marines is not hard for Eldar at all.

If the Marine player plays smart, it will be not easy.
Six Pods arriving in turn 1 can do some damage. The units can be combat squadded and now the enemy faces 12 units.

Six pods filled with non SW are kinda meh to me. Depending on what is in them, the Eldar can use their WS and WKs to protect their bikes and then lay waste to the marines in a massive beta strike. Pods with power armor losers in them is so 5th ed. Skyhammer is a different story, of course.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
This is, in my opinion, the big reason Eldar are so powerful - this is no longer true.

Warp Spiders are not specialists. They have decent RoF, high Str, pseudo-rending guns, high mobility, good armor, and h&r in case combat happens. Few and far between are the targets they won't fair well against.

Dire Avengers are a good baseline infantry unit, supposedly good at range. They now have built-in charge defense, and you get to pick one of two flavors for it.

Swooping Hawks used to be relegated to rooting out 4+ or worse saves who hide in cover. They can now haywire flyers out of the sky. Also, they move farther. Because reasons.

Dark Reapers slaughter MEQ. They now also do this to anything that relies on jink, or moved faster than cruising speed.

Scatbikes are universally good. High RoF, long-range, high Str guns on stupidly mobile 3+ Sv T4 troops.

D-Scythes turning to StrD makes them only worse against things they used to wound on 2s. So, grots. They're worse against grots.

Banshees, Scorpions, Spears, and Fire Dragons retained specialist identities (imo). They simply got better at those jobs. Yet these are rarely fielded. Wraithguard do what Fire Dragons do, but better, and vs more targets. Banshees, Scorpions, and Spears aren't needed when assaults don't happen due to volume of fire. Maybe you need to access the enemy backline - a job suitable for the Scorpion infiltrate or Spears surgical strike. Or, you flat out your jetbikes and you're there. Maybe you need to kill some 2+ or 3+ save infantry threatening to assault you, the Banshees' ideal target. Movement + Battle Focus coupled with all shuriken guns being rending deals with this, or Jetbikes move, shoot, and assault jump away.

By and large, Eldar are specialists no more.

I agree that one of the biggest problems with Eldar is that certain units are no longer specialized against certain targets. Scatbikers, D-weapons, and Wraithknights are good against all targets, which is what makes those units too powerful (that and being ridiculously undercosted). However, apart from those three units, Eldar are still an army of specialists.

Warp Spiders are specialized at removing MCs and backfield campers, specifically ones with low Initiative. The fact that they are S6 all the time makes them much less effective against heavy armour. They are meant to be a backfield harassing unit that kills off isolated units and overconfident Riptides.

Dire Avengers are good at killing infantry at range. They do have BS2 overwatch, but if any other basic troop unit gets into CC the Dire Avengers lose due to being only S3 T3. Also, due to their 4+ save, they are very vulnerable to volume of fire.

Swooping hawks are specialized at deep-striking to kill infantry blobs. They have haywire to fill a hole in many lists lack of AA and to scratch heavy vehicles. They are still only S3 T3 with a 4+ save. If people were to complain about them, I would think they would complain more about their ability to jump back into ongoing reserves (not on the turn they come in).

Dark Reapers are good at killing MEQ and vehicles in the open. As soon as any sort of cover comes into play, their effectiveness significantly decreases.

One of the biggest problems with the Eldar codex is that, for all the incentives to take Aspect Warriors, the unholy trinity of Scatbikers and D-Weapons and the Wraithknight do everything better.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
I agree that one of the biggest problems with Eldar is that certain units are no longer specialized against certain targets. Scatbikers, D-weapons, and Wraithknights are good against all targets, which is what makes those units too powerful (that and being ridiculously undercosted). However, apart from those three units, Eldar are still an army of specialists.

Warp Spiders are specialized at removing MCs and backfield campers, specifically ones with low Initiative. The fact that they are S6 all the time makes them much less effective against heavy armour. They are meant to be a backfield harassing unit that kills off isolated units and overconfident Riptides.

Dire Avengers are good at killing infantry at range. They do have BS2 overwatch, but if any other basic troop unit gets into CC the Dire Avengers lose due to being only S3 T3. Also, due to their 4+ save, they are very vulnerable to volume of fire.

Swooping hawks are specialized at deep-striking to kill infantry blobs. They have haywire to fill a hole in many lists lack of AA and to scratch heavy vehicles. They are still only S3 T3 with a 4+ save. If people were to complain about them, I would think they would complain more about their ability to jump back into ongoing reserves (not on the turn they come in).

Dark Reapers are good at killing MEQ and vehicles in the open. As soon as any sort of cover comes into play, their effectiveness significantly decreases.

One of the biggest problems with the Eldar codex is that, for all the incentives to take Aspect Warriors, the unholy trinity of Scatbikers and D-Weapons and the Wraithknight do everything better.

If Scatter Lasers are good at S6, Death Spinners are good at S6. They aren't really any more effective against low initiative targets than they are at average initiative target. Recall, the universal Eldar I5 is high. The average is 3-4. A S6 gun vs initiative wounds on 2's more often than not, and this one rends (because reasons). I'll grant they've got lower RoF, but their platform also costs less. Scatbikes reign supreme on the benefits of range, of course.

DA's do fold in CC. But they have BS2 overwatch to make sure it doesn't happen. They have Battle Focus to make sure it doesn't happen. They have assault weapons, so absolute WORST case scenario you can charge to deny the benefits of Rage or Furious Charge.

Haywire does more than "scratch" heavy armor. A unit charging your standard 3HP tank will kill it. They counter flyers, but so do Crimson Hunters. So why does this unit counter infantry hordes (especially in cover), flyers, and potentially ground vehicles while being referred to as a "specialist?" It's simply not true.

Dark Reapers are less effective at terrain-based cover. Jink, they ignore. These are more specialist than others listed, but still stray outside enough that I question the "specialist" tag.

By and large, the Eldar book doesn't have objectively bad units. It has good units, and better units.

Wraithguard taken as part of the craftworld host thingy are extremely fast. 6" move and a guaranteed 6"run with battlefocus is basically a jump pack.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
If Scatter Lasers are good at S6, Death Spinners are good at S6. They aren't really any more effective against low initiative targets than they are at average initiative target. Recall, the universal Eldar I5 is high. The average is 3-4. A S6 gun vs initiative wounds on 2's more often than not, and this one rends (because reasons). I'll grant they've got lower RoF, but their platform also costs less. Scatbikes reign supreme on the benefits of range, of course.

DA's do fold in CC. But they have BS2 overwatch to make sure it doesn't happen. They have Battle Focus to make sure it doesn't happen. They have assault weapons, so absolute WORST case scenario you can charge to deny the benefits of Rage or Furious Charge.

Haywire does more than "scratch" heavy armor. A unit charging your standard 3HP tank will kill it. They counter flyers, but so do Crimson Hunters. So why does this unit counter infantry hordes (especially in cover), flyers, and potentially ground vehicles while being referred to as a "specialist?" It's simply not true.

Dark Reapers are less effective at terrain-based cover. Jink, they ignore. These are more specialist than others listed, but still stray outside enough that I question the "specialist" tag.

By and large, the Eldar book doesn't have objectively bad units. It has good units, and better units.

Scatter Lasers have three times the range of a Death Spinner and double the shots. And outside of a certain terribly undercosted unit, they can only be found on vehicles. Scatbkikers are a lot more survivable than Warp Spiders doe to the ability to jink and an extra point of Toughness.

Barring a terrible charge roll, BS2 overwatch will not cause that many casualties against MEQ, and is only really effective against hordes. Charging the Dire Avengers only ensures that they'll be killed a little slower in CC.

Swooping Hawks are admittedly more generalist than a lot of Eldar units due to their large variety of stock wargear. My point about their durability still stands.

Dark Reapers are long-ranged fire support that has to pay 8 points a model for the privilege of hurting vehicles, which comes out to just under a Devastator with a Lascannon or ML while only having S3 T3.

You are, admittedly, right that the Eldar codex has no real bad units (except for Shining Spears).

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Scatter Lasers have three times the range of a Death Spinner and double the shots. And outside of a certain terribly undercosted unit, they can only be found on vehicles. Scatbkikers are a lot more survivable than Warp Spiders doe to the ability to jink and an extra point of Toughness.

Barring a terrible charge roll, BS2 overwatch will not cause that many casualties against MEQ, and is only really effective against hordes. Charging the Dire Avengers only ensures that they'll be killed a little slower in CC.

Swooping Hawks are admittedly more generalist than a lot of Eldar units due to their large variety of stock wargear. My point about their durability still stands.

Dark Reapers are long-ranged fire support that has to pay 8 points a model for the privilege of hurting vehicles, which comes out to just under a Devastator with a Lascannon or ML while only having S3 T3.

You are, admittedly, right that the Eldar codex has no real bad units (except for Shining Spears).

Addressed the benefits of the Laser over the Spinner, while extra toughness and range are attributable to a higher cost on bikes (though they remain undercosted). Still, their superiority at a roll is a relative comparison point rather than a reason Warp Spiders fail at said role. I wouldn't shoot a Chimera with Spiders first, but it's an undeniable option that is denied many other armies.

Again, with Avengers, they have the options. Other armies simply don't. It's an argument I see fairly regularly for Eldar. Their options aren't great, or their D weapon ranges are short, but these are options other armies just DON'T HAVE.

Durability is a universal (nearly) weakness of the codex. It is often counteracted, but being T3 S3 isn't new to the Eldar 'dex. All their other toys and rules are. So Reapers get to come in cheaper than a Dev, with more firing modes, ignore jink, TL against things that are fast, and as a tradeoff have lower toughness. I'll take it. Same with Hawks. In an era where T4 and T3 die in equal measure, I'll take the considerable offensive boost any day.

 Dalek Sec wrote:
Eldar are a tough army to face. We have one Eldar player in out club. He brings very toned lists but they are still very very good. I play mostly daemonkin, sometimes Daemons. They're not Ravenwing but daemonkin are also a very fast, aggressive army so I think my experience will help.

1st: Eldar are an army of specialists. Each aspect warrior is good at one thing, bad at others. Try to take them out of their comfort zone. Assault the dire avengers, guardians, fire warriors, dark reapers, and rangers. They aren't bad in CC but will die quick and can't use their amazing guns when they're stuck in CC. A full Ravenwing bike squad should be able to handle any of the above in CC.
Same goes for the CC aspect warriors, take them out of their comfort zone and shoot them to death. Not sure what you're bringing but Black Knights or a HB attack bike squad should do serious damage to a squad of the CC aspect warriors; Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, and Warp Spiders. A lot of these units can move very quickly so try to shoot them up before they charge. Only Howling Banshees have power swords so watch out for them but the rest of 'just' the eldar equivalent of assault marines, no AP but lots of attacks and moves quickly

2nd: Eldar sergeants are called Exarchs are pretty scary. They get access to unique wargear and are much better than the rest of the squad. If the eldar player is dumb enough to put them out front, shoot them to gak and kill him first. The Exarch WILL wreck your sergeants in CC. They will go first and often (In my experience) have ap2.

3rd: Onto fast units. jet bikes, Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks. You think Ravenwing are fast? You got nothing on these guys. Jet bike squads (when they have scatter lasers people call them scatter bikes) will run circles around you, lighting you up with their amazing guns. You best bet is get in into CC ASAP. A general strategy for facing jetbikes is to get to the middle of the table ASAP. From there the eldar have less room to move. Use one unit chase them and another to charge them. Hopefully your opponent won't spam them because they are pretty OP. Swooping Hawks, don't really worry about these guys. Their s3 guns won't do much to SM bikes. They get a blast when they DS, it ignores cover but is only s4 ap4. I would just ignore these guys if you oppoent brings them. Shining Spears are basically CC jet bikes, they get s6 ap3 the first round of CC. They will shred a bike squad in oen round. Shoot these guys before they start recking your bikes.

4th: Wraith units. Wraithguard/ blades, wraithlords, and wraithknights. Guard/ blades are the easiest to deal with. t6 with a 3+ will die quick to plasma guns. Blacks Knights will make short work of these guys. They can't charge out of the transport and are slow after so dance around them and plasma them to death. Lords go up to t8 and have IIRC 3 wounds. These will give you trouble. At range they have good guns are decent in CC. Watch out because they are characters and so can challenge. Lascannons are your best bet. Plasma will hurt but only en mass. TH/SS terminators should be able to handle him as long as the 3++ is enough to survive. Melta will only wound on 4s but is better than plasma. Haven't seen new Dark Angels but those are my suggestions. Sorry but I can't really help with Wraithknights. If your opponent brings one I would suggest praying to your emperor for a good death. You will get it. If the eldar player brings two, don't play the game. Seriously, you won't stand a chance, might as well not waste taking your models out.

5th: Vehicles. They dish out a lot of hurt but can't take much. most are only AV12. Eldar vehicles are fast but not as fast as jetbikes, your bikes should be able to catch them shove a melta bomb up their ass. Krak grenades should also work as they are only AV10 rear IIRC. Of course melta guns will work too but it always seems they have an annoying cover or invul save. Melee is a safer bets as it gets rid of cover and you have more attacks.

Hope this helps. Eldar are a tough army but can be beaten if you know what you're doing. Watch out for cheese lists though. Most eldar players these days only play them because they are good.

OMG...if he brings 2 WK just give up he says...

peirceg wrote:
Wraithguard taken as part of the craftworld host thingy are extremely fast. 6" move and a guaranteed 6"run with battlefocus is basically a jump pack.

If you put them in a wave serpent, the scytheguard can hit a target 26" away (6" wave serpent move, 6" disembark, 6" battle focus, 8" flamer template). And 5 d-scythes will kill most things in the game, especially with a spiritseer to re-roll ones.

I'm playing my game that started this thread today. Tomorrow, I'll post lists and outcome.

So I got whooped bad. He brought a wraith knight with 2 D cannons and it really didn't do too terribly much. But I threw so much into killing it and I got it down to two wounds. He had allied in Dark Eldar and he had this unit that could deep strike without scatter (webway portal) and then had 5 D weapon flamer template weapons. He also brought 2 raiders with warriors, 2 wave serpents with something in them and 3 dark Eldar planes. No scatter bikes or psychic stuff. I haven't lost that quickly in such a short time. However I think it won't go so poorly next time, now that his stuff won't be a surprise.

That's actually a mild Eldar list, imo. Scatterbikes make everything so much worse. The Dark Eldar flyers are decent, but aren't great dakka/pt, as with most flyers.

Webway Wraithguard with D-scythes are brutal as you found out.

Well my big mistake really was thinking I HAD to kill the wraithgaurd unit. After it did its damage it really had no targets and would have done very little the rest of the game. I went for revenge kill and paid the price.

Aversion can neutralize the Wraithguards. Sure they will kill when they arrive but if you can keep them neutered after that you are good.