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I know the black Templars are officially the largest chapter, but the grey knights are also quite large, and seem pretty bad ass. In fluff, it had been stated that they CAN'T be defeated by other imperial servants in one on one combat. So, here's the two part question: in fluff, if for some reason the two had to fight each other with everyone and everything they possess, with no outside help beyond obvious supply drops, who wins? Second part, individual grey knight captain vs emperor's champion, who wins?

Depends on where you stand. Used to be there were 6000 to 10,000 black templar. Now Dan Abbernat or some author claimed GW told him there are only 1200 now.

But you'd need several chapters to stop the Grey Knights. They have been retconned to be the godly best of all time.

If you had 10,000 Black Templar and it was an all out fight? I'd take the black templar.

Grey Knights are one of the smallest chapters

 PhillyT wrote:
Depends on where you stand. Used to be there were 6000 to 10,000 black templar. Now Dan Abbernat or some author claimed GW told him there are only 1200 now.

But you'd need several chapters to stop the Grey Knights. They have been retconned to be the godly best of all time.

If you had 10,000 Black Templar and it was an all out fight? I'd take the black templar.

I don't think it was necessarily a retcon. Considering the Grey Knights were all Psykers with superior equipment (for foot soldiers anyway) they would always have had an advantage man to man.

WrentheFaceless wrote:Grey Knights are one of the smallest chapters

As far as I know they're described as having 1000 Marines, same as most Chapters.

SREG: I guess the feeling from the most recent fluff has amped up their psyker level and capabilities.

Psykers have some serious vulnerabilities that go along with their abilities. Sure, Mary Sue GK have most of it covered with their god-awful fluff, but a visit from the Culexus temple will still probably ruin their day.

Guilliman's blade wrote:
I know the black Templars are officially the largest chapter, but the grey knights are also quite large, and seem pretty bad ass. In fluff, it had been stated that they CAN'T be defeated by other imperial servants in one on one combat. So, here's the two part question: in fluff, if for some reason the two had to fight each other with everyone and everything they possess, with no outside help beyond obvious supply drops, who wins? Second part, individual grey knight captain vs emperor's champion, who wins?

Grey Knights are hideously mighty.

Depending on which version of BT fluff you go with, they either stand a chance by zerging the GK, or die horribly 1000vs1000.

If we're going by the recent retcon to BT fluff, which puts them at around 1000 marines (so they can be called codex-compliant), then the GK wins hands down.

But if we go by their codex, they are stipulated to have around 5-6k marines on active crusades that are (mostly) accounted for, with the possibility of small offshoot crusades (such as the Yarrick-led Gazkhull Crusade), and a number of marines still in training, the BT could pull sufficient forces together to win. Assuming all forces can contact eachother.

Both are at about 1000 Marines nowadays and so the Grey Knights curb-stomp.

Animus wrote:
Templars are at about 1,000,000 Marines nowadays and so the Grey Knights get curb-stomp'd.

Black Templars are known as some of the best hand to hand fighters in the Imperium. They also prefer to duel since they tend to go in small groups of anywhere's from 4-100 normally. This would mean that most likely, a Black Templar is likely to win against a Grey Knight Captain, even with the Grey Knight psyker, due to super Emperor obsession, as well as the fact that a psyker needs a few seconds to do a spell, forcing them to lower their guard. Also, they can't actually just do a burst without concentrating, so the psykick part isn't useful. So that is my first input for #2.

For force on force, I would say the Grey Knights would win due to the fact that the Grey Knights are psykicks, and they still get a space and breathing room to work their heretical magic.
The Grey Knights also have more experience with working in large groups as a force, which allows them to coordinate a little bit better than the Black Templars. Plus, one final thing is that their armoury is like fighting a legion of Terminators with Naginata's. All rights to the last sentence belongs to their respective owners, basically Guilliman's blade.

AP3 weapons come standard, bro. So does terminator armor, so unless you bring the grav you're going to have a bad time.

 greyknight12 wrote:
AP3 weapons come standard, bro. So does terminator armor, so unless you bring the grav you're going to have a bad time.

I use Drop-Pod Grav Devastators with my Black Templars

 PhillyT wrote:
They have been retconned to be the godly best of all time.

I thought that was the Custodes.

"Grey Knights > Custodes" - Matticus Wardicus

 Arktyranus wrote:
Black Templars are known as some of the best hand to hand fighters in the Imperium. They also prefer to duel since they tend to go in small groups of anywhere's from 4-100 normally. This would mean that most likely, a Black Templar is likely to win against a Grey Knight Captain, even with the Grey Knight psyker, due to super Emperor obsession, as well as the fact that a psyker needs a few seconds to do a spell, forcing them to lower their guard. Also, they can't actually just do a burst without concentrating, so the psykick part isn't useful. So that is my first input for #2.

For force on force, I would say the Grey Knights would win due to the fact that the Grey Knights are psykicks, and they still get a space and breathing room to work their heretical magic.
The Grey Knights also have more experience with working in large groups as a force, which allows them to coordinate a little bit better than the Black Templars. Plus, one final thing is that their armoury is like fighting a legion of Terminators with Naginata's. All rights to the last sentence belongs to their respective owners, basically Guilliman's blade.

The current fluff indicates that a regular grey knight is not only a super jacked up space marine, stronger and better trained than a normal marine, but that their psyker abilities are at least on par with sanctioned psykers from other armies. In a one on one fight, a "typical" grey knight captain will ruin a Black Templar captain.

As far as the custodes, we have almost no real idea of what a custodes is. From the fluff, they are stronger and faster than even grey knights, but without all that psker power, it would likely be an even fight. No clue though.