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@Swastakowey: so it is toxic to say that AoS is fun, but not toxic to say that you wish people would be put off picking up the game by the criticisms???
you have just illustrated why i keep saying that both sides have behaved poorly...
better to let people enjoy what they want, rather than actively trying to kill the game...
live and let live...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Swastakowey: so it is toxic to say that AoS is fun, but not toxic to say that you wish people would be put off picking up the game by the criticisms???
you have just illustrated why i keep saying that both sides have behaved poorly...
better to let people enjoy what they want, rather than actively trying to kill the game...
live and let live...

cheers
jah

Again, you cannot read or something. It's toxic to lie about a game yes. I never said toxic to like it.

If a movie critic says a movie sucked, would you criticize him because he "won't let people like the movie and is actively trying to kill the fan base"? Is it not the point of criticism to encourage/discourage people from wasting time on it?

i can read just fine, i simply don't accuse people of lying for expressing their feeling about AoS...
you can disagree with their opinion without making it an attack, but calling AoS fans views a lie is not the way to get anyone to open their mind to your view...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
i can read just fine, i simply don't accuse people of lying for expressing their feeling about AoS...
you can disagree with their opinion without making it an attack, but calling AoS fans views a lie is not the way to get anyone to open their mind to your view...

cheers
jah

Im not... when people say no points is revolutionary they are spreading false information. Because no points systems have been around for a long time. Im not attacking anyone, but their misleading facts about a game being amazing for X reasons when (as it's been pointed out endlessly that all games do X) they are spreading "toxic" information about a game.

See, again, you think im attacking people when not once have I attacked anyone. If someone says "I like this game, even though it's flawed etc" like bottle does then that's fine. I am not attacking anyone who likes this game.

Critiquing a game system =/= attacking its fans.

If you go looking you'll probably find most cases of people saying Anti AoS players are attacking people are in fact them attacking the game system and its fans internalizing it and taking it as if AoS is them personally and its a personal attack. Ive not seen any anti AoS players attacking pro AoS players personally, they stick to talking about the games flaws and its system. Ive never heard them target an individual and go "You are an awful player, you are a toxic player and everything wrong with this game" unlike some.

Most Anti comments ive seen have been along the lines of:

"The games super flawed and simply written" - that is not in anyway a personal attack it is about the game system.

Where as ive seen pro AoS players saying things like

"You don't like it leave, GW doesn't need your type of players anyway. This game is for those who actually like having fun and not just been one of those play to win guys nobody likes. Im glad its swept away the toxic tournament players"

Which is why pro commenters are getting more MOD edits and closed down threads. As of recent months considering how recent the closing of WHFB was i was rather saddened by the hostile "your time is over get out" attitude displayed towards fantasy players who didn't immediately pick up AoS and love it. It generated such a sudden hate wave for the old game that anyone not loving AoS was branded old hat TFG we had thread after threads laughing at 8th and saying how great AoS for washing away the toxic communities of old players, insult thread after insult thread half talking about how great AoS is and how awful fantasy and its players are. Players who were naturally sad to see their system go and didn't like the new system were basically told to GTFO of the now AoS forum, no sympathy or understanding just immediate biting of the hand that used to feed them. We're the new kids in town sort of attitude sprang up. Its not surprising people who didn't like AoS got tired of been insulted and having their system dragged through the dirt all for the sake of making AoS look better than it is and getting shouted down when they tried to bring up legitimate points and worries about the system or its structure.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
Critiquing a game system =/= attacking its fans.

If you go looking you'll probably find most cases of people saying Anti AoS players are attacking people are in fact them attacking the game system and its fans internalizing it and taking it as if AoS is them personally and its a personal attack. Ive not seen any anti AoS players attacking pro AoS players personally, they stick to talking about the games flaws and its system. Ive never heard them target an individual and go "You are an awful player, you are a toxic player and everything wrong with this game" unlike some.

Most Anti comments ive seen have been along the lines of:

"The games super flawed and simply written" - that is not in anyway a personal attack it is about the game system.

Where as ive seen pro AoS players saying things like

"You don't like it leave, GW doesn't need your type of players anyway. This game is for those who actually like having fun and not just been one of those play to win guys nobody likes. Im glad its swept away the toxic tournament players"

This is exactly what is happening.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with the fact that AOS players can't defend the game without making it entirely personal opinion. We see this with "it works for me and I have no problems so the game is fine" Or "just don't play dirtbags" and the list goes on. Obviously an argument like that runs out pretty quick so they can either concede or lash out at the people who criticize the game. I don't know though, that's just speculation on my part.

@Swastakowey: if someone has never played a game with no points before, then AoS is revolutionary to them...
they are stating their opinion, not spreading lies...
calling someone a liar for having a different opinion is an attack...
just because someone doesn't share your opinion of a games flaws is no reason to call them a liar...

if you want your opinion to be accepted as valid criticism, then you need to allow the same respect to the other side's views...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
if someone has never played a game with no points before, then AoS is revolutionary to them...
they are stating their opinion, not spreading lies...
calling someone a liar for having a different opinion is an attack...
just because someone doesn't share your opinion of a games flaws is no reason to call them a liar...

if you want your opinion to be accepted as valid critisism, then you need to allow the same respect to the other side's views...

cheers
jah

'To Them"

So in other words they are misinformed and are spreading false information because they did not do any research or to back up their claim. If this was done in a business or in school that would mean they failed.

I have endlessly said I respect peoples views if they are correct. But saying a game is revolutionary is lying, saying "I have never played a game with no points before" would be the correct way to say it. They are attempting to make AOS out to be something it is not.

I have attacked no one mate.

@Swastakowey: again, they are not spreading false information, they are opening their eyes to new possibilities, and having their own opinion...
if you are going to tell people that they should respect your critiques, and not take them personally, then you need to give them the same freedom to express their views without calling them liars...

@los pollos hermanos: please, there have been many anti-AoS comments that were rude and condescending...
neither side is innocent here...
it is very disingenuous to try and say that "the game is super flawed and simply written" has been the extent of the criticism...
some pretty horrible things have been said about anyone who is pro-AoS...

this merry-go-round isn't going to stop anytime soon, if both sides keep protesting their innocence, instead of agreeing to disagree, and leaving it at that...

how would you guys suggest we move on from here???

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Swastakowey: again, they are not spreading false information, they are opening their eyes to new possibilities, and having their own opinion...
if you are going to tell people that they should respect your critiques, and not take them personally, then you need to give them the same freedom to express their views without calling them liars...

@los pollos hermanos: please, there have been many anti-AoS comments that were rude and condescending...
neither side is innocent here...
it is very disingenuous to try and say that "the game is super flawed and simply written" has been the extent of the criticism...
some pretty horrible things have been said about anyone who is pro-AoS...

this merry-go-round isn't going to stop anytime soon, if both sides keep protesting their innocence, instead of agreeing to disagree, and leaving it at that...

how would you guys suggest we move on from here???

cheers
jah

Again, yes it is them spreading false information... because it is not true.

Please provide examples of both sides being nasty and not just one side? If you can do that like we have then maybe you will get somewhere.

@Swastakaowey: i'm not about to repeat the insults, and drag this thing even more off -topic...

since you insist that you are right, and my impression is wrong, and that people having their own opinion about AoS is spreading false information, i guess we will just have to leave it at that...
i am done going around and around...
all i can say is that i disagree with you, and leave it at that...
you are welcome to your opinion, too...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Swastakaowey: i'm not about to repeat the insults, and drag this thing even more off -topic...

since you insist that you are right, and my impression is wrong, and that people having their own opinion about AoS is spreading false information, i guess we will just have to leave it at that...
i am done going around and around...
all i can say is that i disagree with you, and leave it at that...
you are welcome to your opinion, too...

cheers
jah

I think it's because you can't actually find any, because there are none/very few.

It being an opinion does not stop it being false information. I can't say the world is flat and then get annoyed because people telling me my opinion is wrong (because it is).

But you know what is really annoying, how you are wording this. "if people are saying their opinion is spreading false information" is not at all what I am saying. I think you know this too. If someones opinion is false information then it's not rocket science that it's false yea?

Swastakowey, Los pollos hermanos, and MWHistorian you are all validating what I said in that oh so offensive post I made.

Everytime you show up in a thread it derails 50 miles off track off into either a meta discussion about what the definition of a "good" game is or a long winded appeal to emotion about how you're all being persecuted.

You don't like the game. We get it. You've told us in just about every thread. Why are you here?

Its possible to disagree and criticize while still creating productive peaceful discussion, Killkrazy is an example of someone who does that. He has multiple times brought up points of AoS he thinks could have been better, but he doesn't attack people, doesn't make veiled insults by implying the game was made for uncultured troglodytes, and even suggests his own solutions which lead to discussion. His posts don't derail the conversation, they add to it.

Now what about all of you. How are any of you facilitating discussion? Heck what's the point of this thread now? The last of any actual discussion is back on page one, on the other side of 2.5 pages of arguing.

All you ever post is rediculous hatred against a system that people are enjoying and then expect them to take it lying down. Even when people discuss modifications to make the system work with other forms of play, you attack it because "good systems shouldn't need any modification" as if thats a realistic expectation. No system possibly works right in every context of play because many of them are mutually exclusive.

But none of you will ever accept that, because you aren't here to discuss, you're here to gakpost and troll because for whatever reason it makes you feel better to think you are making us as miserable as you are. No one intentionally "discusses" a hobby they know they will never like unless they're angry and bitter.

 jah-joshua wrote:

how would you guys suggest we move on from here???

Simple really, I only came to browse as I had assumed the drama dirt throwing was over. More threads now just read like "AoS tactics" or "Do you position your terrain" and there's no conflict in those threads because its just people talking about the game but IT seems I was wrong when I spotted this thread, once again talking in a demeaning, rather insulting passive aggressive tone towards people who have really stopped caring at this point. It feels like someone trying to rake it all back up again there was no need to make a thread about having an AoS tournament and how it went about the players who dislike AoS other than to atleast attempt some resemblance or trying to 'rub their faces in how great the system is and prove them wrong'

How would I suggest moving on from here? simple people should just make threads about AoS without having to go low brow insults. Do you think there would have been any drama had the thread just been

"Heres the results of our first AoS tournament, discuss" or "First AoS mini tournament it was great!" and not dripping with insulting sarcasm
"wwwhhhaa the inturnet says Aos suckksss hoow can you have fffunnnnnn?!" *in mocking of anti AoS players tone as if we lack brain cells*

just like all the other straight forward threads about AoS without any condescending attitude I doubt it. We're not here to stop peopkle playing AoS my good friend loves the system and we still get along. Im here to say its time to stop insulting the other player base, the none AoS fans, its time threads like this leave them alone instead of making them the butt of a joke.

Just go look at the other threads about AoS that doesn't attempt to insult people, you'll see fans of AoS discussing AoS, no drama.

Jack Flask wrote:
Swastakowey, Los pollos hermanos, and MWHistorian you are all validating what I said in that oh so offensive post I made.

Everytime you show up in a thread it derails 50 miles off track off into either a meta discussion about what the definition of a "good" game is or a long winded appeal to emotion about how you're all being persecuted.

You don't like the game. We get it. You've told us in just about every thread. Why are you here?

Its possible to disagree and criticize while still creating productive peaceful discussion, Killkrazy is an example of someone who does that. He has multiple times brought up points of AoS he thinks could have been better, but he doesn't attack people, doesn't make veiled insults by implying the game was made for uncultured troglodytes, and even suggests his own solutions which lead to discussion. His posts don't derail the conversation, they add to it.

Now what about all of you. How are any of you facilitating discussion? Heck what's the point of this thread now? The last of any actual discussion is back on page one, on the other side of 2.5 pages of arguing.

All you ever post is rediculous hatred against a system that people are enjoying and then expect them to take it lying down. Even when people discuss modifications to make the system work with other forms of play, you attack it because "good systems shouldn't need any modification" as if thats a realistic expectation. No system possibly works right in every context of play because many of them are mutually exclusive.

But none of you will ever accept that, because you aren't here to discuss, you're here to gakpost and troll because for whatever reason it makes you feel better to think you are making us as miserable as you are. No one intentionally "discusses" a hobby they know they will never like unless they're angry and bitter.

I have, on multiple occasions brought up what I think would make AOS better. I have not attacked anyone. I don't feel persecuted, I stated that your end of the spectrum are the ones creating all the problems with the mods in response to some guy making crap up.

What I find most interesting about your side of the stick, is how much you like to assume things about others:

People who hate this game are TFG that we don't need

I have, on multiple occasions, been told I must be horrible to play with (because they know, somehow?)

That I don't care about fun and or don't care about the hobby?

And now, that we are miserable somehow? Come on man, you can do better than that.

I know YOU have seen my post a lot, however some kid in a few years time might not, or some browser who happens to look today might not. I would hate for them to see an echo chamber of positivity and think the game is worth starting. Especially at GW prices. Also I have to respond to the jabs at other wargames because you feel superior for playing a game.

Also Age of Sigmar is not the hobby, wargaming is the hobby and I love it. In fact I play 3 times a week with my mates. We 3d print terrain, play lots of games, have painted armies, have a large club that grows and we host events etc.

So enough of the random judgements yea? When assume you make an ass of yourself.

The point of this thread is pointing out the nasty behavior one side continually displays at the moment I think.

 Swastakowey wrote:

I know YOU have seen my post a lot, however some kid in a few years time might not, or some browser who happens to look today might not. I would hate for them to see an echo chamber of positivity and think the game is worth starting. Especially at GW prices.

So because you don't like the game, we are misleading people. So because you don't like the game, we aren't allowed to have new players. So because you don't like the game, we can't have positive productive threads or thatd be an "echo chamber of positivity right"?

Seriously mate how self centered are you?

Oh and thank god for you Swastakowey! I'm so proud that you took it upon yourself to defend the poor mentally stunted fools who might see a GW product you don't like and actually spend their money on it. Because that how GW gets you ya know. Someone expresses positivity about their games or models, and then someone sees it and immediate is robbed at gunpoint for overpriced miniatures.

Swastakowey wrote:Also I have to respond to the jabs at other wargames because you feel superior for playing a game.

Oh hey kettle, meet pot and skillet and 12 piece cast iron pan set.

Swastakowey wrote:Also Age of Sigmar is not the hobby, wargaming is the hobby and I love it. In fact I play 3 times a week with my mates. We 3d print terrain, play lots of games, have painted armies, have a large club that grows and we host events etc.

Every strawman you can get huh? Oh and thank you for explaining the hobby to me, because clearly I'm indocrinated into the HHHobby right? I couldn't possibly know about playing other games, or making my own terrain, or participating in events.

Swastakowey wrote:So enough of the random judgements yea? When assume you make an ass of yourself.

I couldn't possibly know how to make judgements or assumptions, I enjoy a game with only 4 pages of rules.

The point of this thread is pointing out the nasty behavior one side continually displays at the moment I think.

Jack Flask wrote:
So because you don't like the game, we are misleading people. So because you don't like the game, we aren't allowed to have new players. So because you don't like the game, we can't have positive productive threads or thatd be an "echo chamber of positivity right"?

You know I have not seen 1 single example of an 'anti-AoS' person on this forum suggesting a 'pro-AoS' person leave the thread, nor a thread started with 'non positivity' in the title. I have seen examples of both from the 'pro' side telling people who don't like AoS their opinions are not wanted here.

Fun fact, people on this website are entitled to their opinions.

Jack Flask wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

I know YOU have seen my post a lot, however some kid in a few years time might not, or some browser who happens to look today might not. I would hate for them to see an echo chamber of positivity and think the game is worth starting. Especially at GW prices.

So because you don't like the game, we are misleading people. So because you don't like the game, we aren't allowed to have new players. So because you don't like the game, we can't have positive productive threads or thatd be an "echo chamber of positivity right"?

Seriously mate how self centered are you?

Oh and thank god for you Swastakowey! I'm so proud that you took it upon yourself to defend the poor mentally stunted fools who might see a GW product you don't like and actually spend their money on it. Because that how GW gets you ya know. Someone expresses positivity about their games or models, and then someone sees it and immediate is robbed at gunpoint for overpriced miniatures.

No, where did I say that?

See, when people look at spending a lot of money like say a car, a hobby or a house, they normally do research first. If the world ran the way you think it should, nobody would say anything negative about anything and then nobody would know what ios and what is not worth buying. If I don't think something is good, I will say it is not good. Like wise if something is good I will also say so. I find it helpful when others do the same so I know what to and not to spend my money on. Does this make me self centered? or are you just angry your little game is not getting glowing reviews all round?

See you can exaggerate all you want and try twist what im saying, but really you are just blowing this way out of proportion.

Swastakowey wrote:Also I have to respond to the jabs at other wargames because you feel superior for playing a game.

Oh hey kettle, meet pot and skillet and 12 piece cast iron pan set.

Ummm I don't feel superior for anything? I attack the game not people. Unlike others on this forum (glares at you...)

Swastakowey wrote:Also Age of Sigmar is not the hobby, wargaming is the hobby and I love it. In fact I play 3 times a week with my mates. We 3d print terrain, play lots of games, have painted armies, have a large club that grows and we host events etc.

Every strawman you can get huh? Oh and thank you for explaining the hobby to me, because clearly I'm indocrinated into the HHHobby right? I couldn't possibly know about playing other games, or making my own terrain, or participating in events.

Straw Man? Dude, you claimed the hobby was AOS JUST THEN (claimed I attacked the hobby, when in fact I am attacking part of the hobby), if you think this means im attacking you and not your argument you are plain wrong (what a surprise) because you tried to argue AOS was the hobby mate.

Swastakowey wrote:So enough of the random judgements yea? When assume you make an ass of yourself.

I couldn't possibly know how to make judgements or assumptions, I enjoy a game with only 4 pages of rules.

The point of this thread is pointing out the nasty behavior one side continually displays at the moment I think.

The point of this thread was for Op to talk about a tournament that had recently happened. Nice to know that its ok to just willy nilly derail threads when ever you want.

Aren't people that play AoS worried that in other places where their kind of "fun" or comp or house rule is not used the game may not be seen as good, but a new player looking at the pro AoS posts may get the false idea that it actualy is. There are people having tons of fun geting whiped, but one could hardly argue that geting whiped is a good past time for most. Unhouse ruled AoS is hard to play, and in places where model cost is a realy important factor it, becomes hard to enjoy and hard to start up. It is awesome that some people play in places where, if their opponents have an army beating them every time, they can just go and ask them to buy a new one and they do. It is awesome, and has my envy, that people with huge across faction collections find new ways and new combos compering to what WFB brought. Win to them, but when I see people talking stuff about no point limits being awesome, or low cash or model entry point in to the game that gets me wondering, if am looking at the same unit stats.

Jack Flask wrote:

You don't like the game. We get it. You've told us in just about every thread. Why are you here?

You like the game. We get it. You've told us in just about every thread. Why are you here?

I play lots of games that don't need modifications. But that's not what I've been saying.
So, saying "AOS is a simple game with to little depth for me, but could work for you," is spewing out hate? Ok. How about this, "Lack of army creation structure makes it difficult for pick up games." Toxic? Venemous? Hardly. You may disagree, but that doesn't make my opinion invalid. (It's all opinion, btw. That's kinda the point of a discussion board...you know, to share opinions?)
Take a step back, calm down and stop taking criticism to AOS so personal.

Makumba wrote:
Aren't people that play AoS worried that in other places where their kind of "fun" or comp or house rule is not used the game may not be seen as good, but a new player looking at the pro AoS posts may get the false idea that it actualy is.

I think people are more worried that people looking at ant-AoS posts will never try the game for themselves. It's better to lose 2 hours and decide that the game is not for you than not trying it at all.

Makumba wrote:

Unhouse ruled AoS is hard to play...

Eyeballing works just fine for me. Well I've got only two armies so my pool is pretty small and I'm putting them against each other, so this goes against me, but nevertheless I manage. With experience people will learn to do it cross-army wide. I'm not going to touch on the sensitive topic about big model collections, advantages they give and game balance. It is being discussed virtually everywhere on the AoS forums.

 CoreCommander wrote:
I think people are more worried that people looking at ant-AoS posts will never try the game for themselves. It's better to lose 2 hours and decide that the game is not for you than not trying it at all.

If it means they try a different game instead then I don't think it's a bad thing. If someone is interested enough in wargaming that they are reading posts on the internet about AOS I'd kind of hope they are interested enough to also notice there are other games they can try.

And for an inexperienced gamer, they aren't going to find out how good or bad a game is in the space of a couple of hours, comments from the community are important in making a decision. Damned near any wargame can be fun for a couple of hours when you're new and fresh and interested, it takes some experience to know whether a wargame will continue to be fun for the hundreds of hours you end up having to invest in it, so it's not a bad thing if people read some comments on the internet to get them thinking before they go in to their first game so they know what flaws to be looking out for and whether those flaws will hamper their enjoyment over the long run.

The globe is littered with people who thought 40k was fun.... and then quit before they even got finished painting the first 1 or 2 boxed sets of models (as evidenced by ebay ). I don't think we really need more of those sorts of players in wargaming (well.... except for buying cheap stuff of ebay I guess ).

There have been some valid points on discussion made here.
But having a read through some other areas of the forum, you don't have anyone attempting to 'save' people from playing what is - in their opinion - a terrible game.
You can dress it up however you like, but you come across as jilted exes.
There are plenty who are not keen on AoS but frame their criticisms as part of a discussion, rather than thinly veiled inferences or passing off opinion or experience as empirical.

RoperPG wrote:
You can dress it up however you like, but you come across as jilted exes.

And it's silly comments like these that keep people coming back to argue about it.

Seriously, if you want to stop people being negative about AoS, stop baiting people who don't like it with thinly veiled insults.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
You can dress it up however you like, but you come across as jilted exes.

And it's silly comments like these that keep people coming back to argue about it.

Seriously, if you want to stop people being negative about AoS, stop baiting people who don't like it with thinly veiled insults.

Wasn't an insult, it was an objective statement.
As has been pointed out, there are those who - whilst negative overall about AoS - are still able to engage in positive discussion in an AoS forum.
..and there are those who love to tell people that they don't care about AoS, how bad it is, that they have no intention of playing it ever, etc. etc. -and feel the need to spend the time and energy to drop in to explain that repeatedly - but don't do so with other game systems. That's not freedom of speech, that's full-blown stage 2 on display, and there is no rational explanation for it other than this.

(Give it a few months, and GWHQ will be inundated with people standing outside with boomboxes playing "In Your Eyes")

RoperPG wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
You can dress it up however you like, but you come across as jilted exes.

And it's silly comments like these that keep people coming back to argue about it.

Seriously, if you want to stop people being negative about AoS, stop baiting people who don't like it with thinly veiled insults.

Wasn't an insult, it was an objective statement.
As has been pointed out, there are those who - whilst negative overall about AoS - are still able to engage in positive discussion in an AoS forum.
..and there are those who love to tell people that they don't care about AoS, how bad it is, that they have no intention of playing it ever, etc. etc. -and feel the need to spend the time and energy to drop in to explain that repeatedly - but don't do so with other game systems. That's not freedom of speech, that's full-blown stage 2 on display, and there is no rational explanation for it other than this.

(Give it a few months, and GWHQ will be inundated with people standing outside with boomboxes playing "In Your Eyes")

Maybe thats because this is one of the worst games to come out in a while... I mean, you can't point at other games and ask "why is nobody criticising that game but they are criticising this game?" and THEN come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the people and not the game...

Are you sure the rational reason isn't "this game is controversial and sucks" maybe? Because that sounds like the real reason for the discussions we see here. Not just a bunch of crazies who happen to not like what some like.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Maybe thats because this is one of the worst games to come out in a while... I mean, you can't point at other games and ask "why is nobody criticising that game but they are criticising this game?" and THEN come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the people and not the game...

Are you sure the rational reason isn't "this game is controversial and sucks" maybe? Because that sounds like the real reason for the discussions we see here. Not just a bunch of crazies who happen to not like what some like.

I made no such statement about people vs. game. I was talking about people.
As you are trying to pass off your opinion as objective assessment and then using that as evidence for your astonishing cognitive dissonance, you've just successfully proven my point.

RoperPG wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Maybe thats because this is one of the worst games to come out in a while... I mean, you can't point at other games and ask "why is nobody criticising that game but they are criticising this game?" and THEN come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the people and not the game...

Are you sure the rational reason isn't "this game is controversial and sucks" maybe? Because that sounds like the real reason for the discussions we see here. Not just a bunch of crazies who happen to not like what some like.

I made no such statement about people vs. game. I was talking about people.
As you are trying to pass off your opinion as objective assessment and then using that as evidence for your astonishing cognitive dissonance, you've just successfully proven my point.

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioural decisions and attitude change.

Have I been inconsistent? It's pretty clear I have not changed my attitude at all... In fact I don't see how that relates to anything at all...

Also I was not passing it off as fact, just pointing out that likely the reason all these people (and me I guess) are behaving this way is because the game has flaws and many people are being vocal about those flaws. There is no problem with this is there? I mean there are people who get paid a lot to do this (and normally their comments sections are full of arguments like this too). Its not some "stage 2" or other crap. The game is new, people hate it or like it, there is gonna be people "who love to tell people how bad it is" etc. It's not rocket science.

Please point out where I passed my opinion off as fact? Because I have not told anyone they are wrong for their opinion whilst my opinion is correct. Especially not in the comment you are replying to.

"Maybe because it's on of the worst games to come out in a while"

That is a statement of opinion being put for as factual. You did not say "in my opinion" " feel that" or any number of other ways to ensure peope reading the statement aren't under the impression that you have some insurmountable evidence that validates the statement itself.

You feel the need to 'save' people from AoS, by ensuring this forum is some kind of time capsule.
Yet you say you do not try to pass your opinion off as 'correct'?You ensure that the negatives must be highlighted again and again, as you have claimed that it is not possible to defend the game without resorting to personal opinion. Do you not see the irony there?
You also noticeably do not do the same for other systems.
So that's either cognitive dissonance or hypocrisy.
It is *definitely* anger in either case, whether you realise it or not.