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 Kanluwen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are we'll see a sheet or two of decals to turn them into the proper legions.

Either that or they will sell them separately, I could see that sadly.

for $12 buy your own legion transfers!

Don't be stupid, their kits always come with decals, whether or not they're useful however..

Interestingly enough, the Shadow Force Solaq box did not include decals.

I'm okay with that since Raven Guard decals are only from FW(and I'm doing Raptors not Raven Guard), but yeah. Was kind of surprised that there was not even a small transfer sheet ala Stormclaw.

If anything I would just buy the legion shoulders from FW. Hell, I probably have some left over.

 warboss wrote:
A few years ago, I would have jumped all over a mainstream HH release just like I did with Space Hulk. Now, after all the apocalypsification of 40k and gaking on the rules for the sake of sales, nah.

Actually, 30k restricts Lords of War to a max of 25% of your total points, can only be bought when playing games of 2000 points or more and they have a much toned down Str : D rules...

NoggintheNog wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Cutting back? How so? There's not been many new ones, but then every Legion other than the Ultramarines that's been covered in a book has one of their own, so there's not really much more to come at the moment.

Several legion specific contemptors have been discontinued.

They are all still available. A few were unavailable a few weeks back for changes to the packaging but are available again.

It will be interesting to see what sort of rules changes we might see with 30k.

I may have missed it, but any word on how this will affect FW's HH offerings?

 Vaktathi wrote:
It will be interesting to see what sort of rules changes we might see with 30k.

I may have missed it, but any word on how this will affect FW's HH offerings?

Nothing that indicates any major changes. However, their new instruction sheets give a clue that they may be planning limited resin offering's for the GW stores:

 zedmeister wrote:

 warboss wrote:
A few years ago, I would have jumped all over a mainstream HH release just like I did with Space Hulk. Now, after all the apocalypsification of 40k and gaking on the rules for the sake of sales, nah.

Actually, 30k restricts Lords of War to a max of 25% of your total points, can only be bought when playing games of 2000 points or more and they have a much toned down Str : D rules...

Oh, I know ironically 30k is more akin to the 40k I used to play before GW cranked the stupid up to 11 in "normal" 40k. I used to buy/read every HH book, I jumped all over the Visions art book, and practically pee'd my pants when FW started making older vehicle styles (I bought a contemptor right away)... but the last two years worth of decisions by both GW and BL have soured me on both "normal" 40k as well as HH. I always wanted a HH style army but the FW prices stopped me from doing so back in the day. Now that their might be affordable HH era plastics, GW and BL's greed have soured me both on the fluff and the crunch, leaving me with no inclination to do so even if cost isn't an issue any more. YMMV and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who will go gaga over this release since I would have been right there with them ooo'ing and ahhh'ing... prior to 2012.

 warboss wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 warboss wrote:
A few years ago, I would have jumped all over a mainstream HH release just like I did with Space Hulk. Now, after all the apocalypsification of 40k and gaking on the rules for the sake of sales, nah.

Actually, 30k restricts Lords of War to a max of 25% of your total points, can only be bought when playing games of 2000 points or more and they have a much toned down Str : D rules...

Oh, I know ironically 30k is more akin to the 40k I used to play before GW cranked the stupid up to 11 in "normal" 40k. I used to buy/read every HH book, I jumped all over the Visions art book, and practically pee'd my pants when FW started making older vehicle styles (I bought a contemptor right away)... but the last two years worth of decisions by both GW and BL have soured me on both "normal" 40k as well as HH. I always wanted a HH style army but the FW prices stopped me from doing so back in the day. Now that their might be affordable HH era plastics, GW and BL's greed have soured me both on the fluff and the crunch, leaving me with no inclination to do so even if cost isn't an issue any more. YMMV and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who will go gaga over this release since I would have been right there with them ooo'ing and ahhh'ing... prior to 2012.

Don't get me wrong, GW has a terrible track record, but it sounds like you're more letting their other decisions color your judgement of the HH plastic series than the product itself.

Well it's not like GW has told us anything about this product. So going by one's opinion of how they have been doing things over the last several years is not only eminently rational but also kind of one's only option at the moment. For my part, I am just hoping this does not end up being some kind of Execution Force-like botch. And of course, I also hope the figs are completely legion-agnostic/that the leaked pics are real.

Which ones? There's twelve Legion-specific ones, plus the standard and Relic versions, and all of those currently show as "Availability: Usually ships within 3 days ".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It will be interesting to see what sort of rules changes we might see with 30k.

I may have missed it, but any word on how this will affect FW's HH offerings?

Nothing that indicates any major changes. However, their new instruction sheets give a clue that they may be planning limited resin offering's for the GW stores:

Spoiler:

Thanks again m_r_Parker from B&C

What's the clue? All that says to me is that model has been CAD-designed and now Forge World as well as the main Citadel studio are taking advantage of that to do their assembly diagrams.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, GW has a terrible track record, but it sounds like you're more letting their other decisions color your judgement of the HH plastic series than the product itself.

You're not wrong... but you can't separate the company from the IP. They're one and the same. The company decides how the IP is developed, marketed, and costed and I have no faith they'll do it or their customers right at this point.

warboss wrote:

Oh, I know ironically 30k is more akin to the 40k I used to play before GW cranked the stupid up to 11 in "normal" 40k. I used to buy/read every HH book, I jumped all over the Visions art book, and practically pee'd my pants when FW started making older vehicle styles (I bought a contemptor right away)... but the last two years worth of decisions by both GW and BL have soured me on both "normal" 40k as well as HH. I always wanted a HH style army but the FW prices stopped me from doing so back in the day. Now that their might be affordable HH era plastics, GW and BL's greed have soured me both on the fluff and the crunch, leaving me with no inclination to do so even if cost isn't an issue any more. YMMV and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who will go gaga over this release since I would have been right there with them ooo'ing and ahhh'ing... prior to 2012.

Explains my own source of nerves. Forgeworld having been getting 30k "right" (along with most of the 40k releases they do). If GW is seeing dollarsigns and decides to take it over thinking it can do a better job, then to me its knackered.

AndrewGPaul wrote:
What's the clue? All that says to me is that model has been CAD-designed and now Forge World as well as the main Citadel studio are taking advantage of that to do their assembly diagrams.

Just the thought that the instructions are a lot more professional than the standard photocopied A4 sheets you usually get from Forgeworld. Maybe they're sharpening up the presentation and are putting together some shelf suitable packaging? Who knows, just a random thought from myself.

 warboss wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, GW has a terrible track record, but it sounds like you're more letting their other decisions color your judgement of the HH plastic series than the product itself.

You're not wrong... but you can't separate the company from the IP. They're one and the same. The company decides how the IP is developed, marketed, and costed and I have no faith they'll do it or their customers right at this point.

Fair enough. I guess my point was just to sit back and watch it, don't write it off yet

So what are we guessing for price? I'm betting something like $150US.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
So what are we guessing for price? I'm betting something like $150US.

Yeah, I reckon, about £90. My guess on the contents would be:

20-40 Legionaires (Enough to make 2-4 Veteran Squads with Heavy and Special Weapons)
2 Contemptors
10 Cataphract Terminators
2 Praetors
2 Transfer Sheets
Quickstart or variant Rulebook
Background Book
Templates
Dice
Box
Shrink Wrap

There'll be some limited edition moneyraker edition, but this being GW, expect a variant box. If they put in a limited mini with the release, this'll be off the hook!

 zedmeister wrote:

warboss wrote:

Oh, I know ironically 30k is more akin to the 40k I used to play before GW cranked the stupid up to 11 in "normal" 40k. I used to buy/read every HH book, I jumped all over the Visions art book, and practically pee'd my pants when FW started making older vehicle styles (I bought a contemptor right away)... but the last two years worth of decisions by both GW and BL have soured me on both "normal" 40k as well as HH. I always wanted a HH style army but the FW prices stopped me from doing so back in the day. Now that their might be affordable HH era plastics, GW and BL's greed have soured me both on the fluff and the crunch, leaving me with no inclination to do so even if cost isn't an issue any more. YMMV and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who will go gaga over this release since I would have been right there with them ooo'ing and ahhh'ing... prior to 2012.

Explains my own source of nerves. Forgeworld having been getting 30k "right" (along with most of the 40k releases they do). If GW is seeing dollarsigns and decides to take it over thinking it can do a better job, then to me its knackered.

Dureing a open day Q&A they made it clear that "IF" gw did any sort of game involveing the HH, it would not effect their release scheduled. Bassicly that forgeworld will keep makeing their own books even if GW made their own HH game.

When the preview pics of sprues were leaked, wasnt there a price attached like 150 GBP or $200?

 zedmeister wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
So what are we guessing for price? I'm betting something like $150US.

Yeah, I reckon, about £90. My guess on the contents would be:

20-40 Legionaires (Enough to make 2-4 Veteran Squads with Heavy and Special Weapons)
2 Contemptors
10 Cataphract Terminators
2 Praetors
2 Transfer Sheets
Quickstart or variant Rulebook
Background Book
Templates
Dice
Box
Shrink Wrap

There'll be some limited edition moneyraker edition, but this being GW, expect a variant box. If they put in a limited mini with the release, this'll be off the hook!

Half the numbers, add thirty quid and I reckon you may be right.

 zedmeister wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
So what are we guessing for price? I'm betting something like $150US.

Yeah, I reckon, about £90. My guess on the contents would be:

20-40 Legionaires (Enough to make 2-4 Veteran Squads with Heavy and Special Weapons)
2 Contemptors
10 Cataphract Terminators
2 Praetors
2 Transfer Sheets
Quickstart or variant Rulebook
Background Book
Templates
Dice
Box
Shrink Wrap

There'll be some limited edition moneyraker edition, but this being GW, expect a variant box. If they put in a limited mini with the release, this'll be off the hook!

Just the miniatures from FW, Horus Heresy, 20 Legionaires, 2 Contemptors, 10 Cataphract Terminators, & 2 Praetors is $498 USD.... And I understand that it's FW resin minis vs GW plastics, but still, they wont undercut themselves that bad!

I'd reckon 10 loyal & 10 traitor legionaires, 1 contemptor, 5 termies, and maybe 2 special characters in the box, then boxes of 30k at 25% less then the FW resin version....

IMHO

 jreilly89 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, GW has a terrible track record, but it sounds like you're more letting their other decisions color your judgement of the HH plastic series than the product itself.

You're not wrong... but you can't separate the company from the IP. They're one and the same. The company decides how the IP is developed, marketed, and costed and I have no faith they'll do it or their customers right at this point.

Fair enough. I guess my point was just to sit back and watch it, don't write it off yet

You know what the definition of insanity is right?

Warboss has already voiced my own feelings, I've lost all enthusiasm for playing the game because it's got so daft I just don't enjoy it, and without the enthusiasm to play, there's no drive to buy models, if I'm painting then there's things I'd rather paint just for fun than 20 more Space Marines.

Add that to a massive gap in releases to accommodate Ago Of Space Marines and my enthusiasm for anything 40K or 40K related is at an all time low.

Even I'm surprised at my apathy towards this.

And I forgot I pre ordered Legacies Of Betrayal in MMPB, and it got dispatched yesterday and took me over my overdraft.

Well look at that. This is actually happening.

I wonder how this changes things for FW.

Ooooooooh BLEEP BLEEP MOTHABLEEEPING BLEEP, son!
This launches on my birthday. Happy HH birthday to me.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, GW has a terrible track record, but it sounds like you're more letting their other decisions color your judgement of the HH plastic series than the product itself.

You're not wrong... but you can't separate the company from the IP. They're one and the same. The company decides how the IP is developed, marketed, and costed and I have no faith they'll do it or their customers right at this point.

Fair enough. I guess my point was just to sit back and watch it, don't write it off yet

I haven't written it off. I'm not so full of myself to think that (the lack of) my little drop in the bucket expenditures for a $100 million + company will make a difference. I fully expect it to be very popular just because it is HH. I just personally can't ignore the company for the IP anymore. I don't, however, begrudge anyone their own excitement as I would have been right there with them a few years ago.

Zero interest. No longer play 40k due to Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n of rules, won't be playing 30k for same reasons. If GW did a re-release of Epic, BloodBowl, Mordheim or Necromunda I'd be all over them like a tramp on chips, but that's the only way GW is ever going to see any of my money again.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Warboss has already voiced my own feelings, I've lost all enthusiasm for playing the game because it's got so daft I just don't enjoy it, and without the enthusiasm to play, there's no drive to buy models, if I'm painting then there's things I'd rather paint just for fun than 20 more Space Marines.

Yeah, agreed and thanks. I'm currently more excited to be possibly getting some boutique resin minis from an indy company to use possibly with a long dead minis game ruleset along with other misfit minis than HH, which I would have previously killed for at reasonable plastic prices. Of course, we have yet to see if they'll be reasonable but I was basing that off of previous starter sets.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
And I understand that it's FW resin minis vs GW plastics, but still, they wont undercut themselves that bad! // then boxes of 30k at 25% less then the FW resin version....

The old Forge World all-resin Baneblade was £140, when it was initially released (before they decided to combine it with the Shadowsword) the plastic Baneblade was £65. The Tau Piranha had a similar reduction: Forge World was £28, GW plastic initially released at £13.33 each (£40 for a box of three).

Even with those prices they are still making money hand over fist, the exorbitant price of FW is mostly the cost of labour, material and having to constantly replace the moulds rather than profit.

Initially when the news came out for this I was excited for plastic Heresy miniatures. As the rumours came out and there was discussion about it being a bored game and also a new miniatures game it made me interested as to where this is going. The video trailer says it's a miniatures game in the 31st millennium. I am guessing this means it is not an isolated bored game. At this point I am most interested to see if this is a new rule set or FW rules? This was kept almost as quite as AOS IMO despite the sprue leak.

Also on an unrelated note it drives me nuts every time someone says they don't like heresy era because there are no xenos races. There are tons of xenos races in the fluff

PalmerC wrote:
Initially when the news came out for this I was excited for plastic Heresy miniatures. As the rumours came out and there was discussion about it being a bored game and also a new miniatures game it made me interested as to where this is going. The video trailer says it's a miniatures game in the 31st millennium. I am guessing this means it is not an isolated bored game. At this point I am most interested to see if this is a new rule set or FW rules? This was kept almost as quite as AOS IMO despite the sprue leak.

Also on an unrelated note it drives me nuts every time someone says they don't like heresy era because there are no xenos races. There are tons of xenos races in the fluff

It's not so much that they don't like it because there are no xenos races, it's that they don't like Space Marines, and for some, that THEIR xenos race didn't exist at that point, or wasn't active.

It's not so much that they don't like it because there are no xenos races, it's that they don't like Space Marines, and for some, that THEIR xenos race didn't exist at that point, or wasn't active.

Thats a fair point although I have seen many posts that stated Heresy has no Xenos in various places over the last six months.

PalmerC wrote:

It's not so much that they don't like it because there are no xenos races, it's that they don't like Space Marines, and for some, that THEIR xenos race didn't exist at that point, or wasn't active.

Thats a fair point although I have seen many posts that stated Heresy has no Xenos in various places over the last six months.

They can state that, but saying something doesn't make it so, at least not if you view the Horus Heresy as both the BL books and the FW game and minis. Xenos pop up in the books at those points where they are involved, which isn't all that often, but does happen. But it's hardly surprising that xenos take so little role in a conflict that is, by definition, Imperial forces vs. turncoat Imperial forces.

Now, I sympathize with the notion that it would be neat to have some tweaked lists for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, maybe some Megarachnid type xenos that Tyranid players could proxy, and we could have an offshoot supplement for Great Crusade, but apart from that notion, the name of the game is "Horus Heresy", so that's going to be the focus.

It really depends on how they envision the game. The Nephilim, Davinites, mega Arachnids, orks, eldar all were in a series with Horus Heresy on the cover but from a timeline perspective I agree fit more with a great crusade theme. Sure space marines and spikey space marines have a central role. But if its a new rule set as some have speculated there is room for human race off shoots and xenos to round out a new game system. Perhaps I am too optimistic