Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was thinking about how to make CC on the same level as Shooting (despite that being an impossible task these days) and came up with several rules changes. These are open to C+C as always.

1) When a unit is firing Overwatch, the charging unit may performing a Charging Jink on the way into combat. This gives the charging unit a 4+ cover save but reduces their total charge distance by 2". A Charging Jink is in effect until the end of the turn (free 4+ cover shouldn't be allowed on the next turn simply for charging the previous turn).
2) If a unit elects to Overwatch, they suffer a -1 modifier to their WS and BS until the next turn (not too sure about this, I want there to be a disadvantage to Overwatch but don't know how best to implement it without nerfing shooting/Tau to the ground. Open to suggestions the most on this one).
3) Charge distance is 6" + D6.
4) WS uses the same chart as the BS when rolling to hit.
5) You can, instead of attacking, make an Initiative test (this represents dodging/parrying the blows that come your way). If the test is successful, then the unit gains a 3+ invulnerable save until the next combat round. This is decreased to a 4+ against autohits (such as Hammer of Wrath and Stomp), decreased further to a 5+ if a six is rolled for Stomp. Hit and Run may not be used when attempting to dodge (don't want tarpits, flee, shoot the unit being tarpitted then tarpit again).
6) ATSKNF allows a unit to re-roll failed Morale and Fear tests. If a unit with ATSKNF successfully regroups, they may fire their weapons at full BS, but may not charge.

I would make charge ranges movement+d6, or 6+d6" for normal troops, but 6+2d6" for fast movers.

 Frozocrone wrote:
4) WS uses the same chart as the BS when rolling to hit.

I like this, make the BT's WS10 actually mean something. Missing on 2s on something WS3 is ridiculous.

6+D6" charge range would be a massive help.

what about

Units that choose to overwatch become Init 1 in CC. Makes sense, they are to busy trying to shoot to fix bayonets or pull a knife.

That initiative thing you suggested is horrible though. It makes Eldar even more amazing then they already are. Few armies have High initiative. hell my best character has like Initiative 4 .

Making "Run" moves a flat 6 would be helpful to, guaranteed 7in movement every turn means I can get my Footsloggers across the board quicker.

Keep in mind it isn't so much that CC itself is broken, its that it is EXTREMELY hard to get CC units to where they need to be. Loading your CC units into transports is nice and all but those transports usually explode, or in the case of Orks, theres not enough Room inside Trukks to take a good sized boyz squad to bring into CC. So what your left with is a bunch of points invested in getting a squad of CC guys close to the enemy lines and all the opponent has to do is put a few Anti-tank rounds into that transport and poof there goes your hopes and dreams.

I did think about having a flat Run move. I think 6" is a bit too much though, maybe 3". Eldar might be allowed 6" for their Warhost.

To be honest I feel that the Initative dodge is balanced. Against Eldar, they want to be kept mobile so by not attacking, they risk being overrun in combat, or staying put and letting the rest of the opposing army get to them and neuter one of their specialities. They also can't strike so the attacking army doesn't risk being wiped out.

That said, I understand your reasoning behind the Initative thing, especially behind armies with high Initiative. Intresting thought about being I1, although that won't really matter for low Initiative armies. (2) and (5) were the ones I was most unsure about if I am honest, (2) in particular.

Also Vehicles HP system has it's own flaws. Most people agree 5th edition was the best for vehicles.

I think making what rust stalkers do with the 3 extra inches work for more melee units on the charge. But it could make some units broken.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
4) WS uses the same chart as the BS when rolling to hit.

I like this, make the BT's WS10 actually mean something. Missing on 2s on something WS3 is ridiculous.

I too like it, and was just having a simmilar discussion last night. I think actually all you need is to adjust the WS table, by making high WS targets harder to hit you grant some additional survive-ability in combat. I was thinking of something between the Wound table and the BS table. Here is what I came up with, but by all means as you like it...

Target (Majority or Challenge)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
1 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 - -
2 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 -
3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6
4 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6
5 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5
6 2/6 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5
7 2/5 2/6 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5
8 2/4 2/5 2/6 2 3 3 3 4 4 4
9 2/3 2/4 2/5 2/6 2 3 3 3 4 4
10 2/2 2/3 2/4 2/5 2/6 2 3 3 3 4




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah yes well, the striker's WS is on the side and the target unit's is on the top, so go down till you hit your WS then over till you reach who you are fighting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the slash indicates a re-roll, although I was thinking extra hits might be appropriate as well?