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Hey dakka, I have yet another question!
I was checking out the Heavy Bolter next to the Twin-linked Heavy Stubber for the Death Korps heavy weapon teams. At first I was like "lolz... Why would you ever take a heavy stubber?!" But then I noticed the "Twin-linked" bit, and it made me think - being only 1 S lower than a H/Bolter, I almost think the Twin-linked Heavy stubber might be a viable option. Lower AP is a bummer but the H/Bolter only being AP5 and almost everyone going marines almost doesn't seem worth it, over the twin-linkedness of the H/Stubber.

What do you guys think?
Cheers!

P.S. I know the Autocannon is the same price and arguably better, but I want to compare the H/Bolter and H/Stubber

H/Bolter and H/Stubber with TL: Neither. Honestly, just use the Autocannon.

Yeah, I know the Autocannon is arguably better, but I wanted to compare the H/Bolter and TL H/Stubber

The heavy bolter is AP 4, not AP 5 as you list in your original post, does that make a difference in your decision? Personally, I'd go with the bolter, but my common enemies are necrons, eldar, and AM...YMMV

Oh, I feel like an idiot haha. That does change my opinion a little, but my common enemy is pretty much all marines or chaos marines haha

If you run the numbers, against T4 the TL-stubber puts slightly more wounds out than the heavy bolter (12.5% more). Against T3 its 20% more efficient in forcing saves.

That's a modest increase in performance, but that gives up the AP4 (which can be huge in the right situation) and also loses the very mild ability the heavy bolter has to threaten light vehicles.

It's fluffy as hell, and not a big enough different to matter most of the time, but the Heavy Bolter is simply better at mulching light infantry in even 5+, much less the open.

To really put this in perspective: the heavy stubber is 20% better than the heavy bolter against T3, while the heavy bolter itself is 50% better against T3 than the Autocannon, and 20% better against T4.

So, if you decide that laying wounds on infantry , regardless of AP, is the goal, the heavy stubber is better. In an arena where it's an option, the Heavy Bolter really falls off, with the AC and Stubber exceling in the two different roles.

When it comes to heavy weapons, GW oddly under values Strength, and over values rate of fire.

In a meta with a lot of 4+ saves the Heavy Bolter is worth it. Otherwise you would want to go with the TL Stubber.

Well, I'm going to have 2 heavy weapons teams in my army - as they are both good for different things, I might take a team of both. They are awesome figs too. I already have plenty of anti-tank, so autocannons aren't really on my list of things to get.

As a side note, what about mortars? Is a team of 3 mortars gunna be worthless? They have the same strength as the H/Stubber and has AP6 and 48", with a blast, meaning they could catch maybe 4 or 5 models with each blast. Almost seems good. I've heard a lot of hate on them, is it their lack of accuracy due to scatter dice? Would it just be better to have teams of stubbers and heavy bolters?

4 or 5 models under a blast? No way in hell is that going to happen to anyone who is half way competent. 2 models will be average, 3 if your lucky, 1 more likely. That is why small blasts are usually considered so useless, anyone who makes use of unit coherence can shrug them off like less accurate single shot weapons.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
4 or 5 models under a blast? No way in hell is that going to happen to anyone who is half way competent. 2 models will be average, 3 if your lucky, 1 more likely. That is why small blasts are usually considered so useless, anyone who makes use of unit coherence can shrug them off like less accurate single shot weapons.

So would that mean that the Thudd guns aren't very pokey? I have 3 in my list, making that 12 blasts. Even if I get 2-3 under my templates, that's roughly 24-36 wounds (if they all hit) then if I added the 3 additional templates from the mortars, that's 30-45 hits (if they all hit) granted 6-9 of those are only S4.

If what you say is true, and I hit with my templates and get 2-3 hits a template, that'll still be the same amount I'd be getting with something like a Heavy Stubber or Heavy Bolter, with the possibility of even more. If my opponent forgets to spread out his/her units (they'd have to be dumb as I have a lot of ordinance) and I threw all 15 templates down on their units, I could potentially get 2-5 hits. That'd be 30-75 hits (6-15 of those due to my mortars) or I could choose to do a flat 1-3 hits with my stubbers and heavy bolters.

I apologise in advance if I'm being a complete idiot haha. I've never been good at math hammer or anything cool like that, but this is how I see it. Let me know if I'm wrong, and I'm not trying to undermine your opinions

A blast has a good chance of hitting one model, and an acceptable chance of hitting two. Which is about the same as a Heavy 3 weapon or a TL Heavy 2 weapon.

Not Death Korps but if I could take mortars in my renegade platoons I most certainly would over other options (most of the time)