Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

-

I agree. I like the books, but they are far too frequent for their expense.

My guess is that they aren't going to keep up the pace, and instead release only during AoS release blocks. With any luck, this upcoming third book will be the conclusion to this first story arc and we won't see another one until 2016, when they release the fyreslayers or whatever the next faction is. I'm also hoping that with the fluff more established, they'll be more campaign orientated. At least I hope so, because even the richest kid on the playground isn't going to fill up a new shelf of 12 giant hardback books every year.

If could speculate that we won't see anymore books atleast untill february-march 2016. A long 40k release is coming and it should give some breathing room. These books are just the initial push. They are very expensive, but they are there and to tell you the truth the Search for Ghal Maraz is more meatier than the first one. By that I mean it has more text because that is pretty much the main concern here. D&D books are chokefull of material, but it is poured in the same framework that has been established through the years - throw some info on race, then on classes, then on skills, then on items, then on spells. The DM guide is the thing that changes as it essentially describes the mechanisms behind building an encounter. It is much easier pouring conent into an already established network. Where would you begin with a game that has neither a setting, nor an extensive rule system? Also, you can't just use old world illustrations - you need new ones. I think they are still establishing the grounds of what AoS books should look like. Looking at the differences between AoS and Ghal Maraz I have the grounds to hope that next year's releases will be closer to what you and I look in a book.

I really liked the first book. They are too expensive, but I think it did a great job at what I think is its true purpose: stoking your imagination. The pretty pictures work towards that as much as the text, if not more. I just hope they don't end up repeating the same artwork over and over.

I am interested to see how Ghal Maraz is.

Maybe Age of Sigmar is just a blip. By that I mean GW wants to release everything for AoS and then that will be it of it, and back to regular Fantasy. Just like how we had End Times, it can be

End Times
Age of Sigmar
Something else or back to Fantasy.

So I guess next year we will see if AoS is a blip just like End Times was or if it will replace Fantasy permanently.

Davor wrote:
Maybe Age of Sigmar is just a blip. By that I mean GW wants to release everything for AoS and then that will be it of it, and back to regular Fantasy.

That is a thought that's run through my head a few times... It seems like loads of time and effort were put into Stormcast and Bloodbound Khorne types. But, everything else appears to just be repacks. I find myself wondering, when the Stormcast and Bloodbound are completely done and released, will GW throw AoS on the back burner indefinitely?

I could see this series of quick release books and kits beings a one-shot attempt to setup a game line that doesn't require much other maintenance, beyond kicking another reboxed kit out every month or two, alongside 40k and 30k releases.

Otherwise, I completely agree with Bottle - you can't sustain sales of this many $75 hardback books, and you can't build up narrative tension with plots like "At long last, it is time to find the long lost hammer of Sigmar! Oh, there it is." no matter how great the books are once you pay for them and take them home.

As much as I actually like the idea of AoS and the minimalist rules, and even with nothing personally invested in older versions of Fantasy, I can see clearly that Fantasy fans have already been through the wringer in terms of investment in the End Times books - books that collectors would be proud to display on their shelves year after year, as the long battles of the End Times played out, had they not all been flooded out in a year, and then instantly rendered obsolete in the minds of players who will only play the latest edition of a game.

To drop two rule-book sized campaign books when even avid fans have barely begun painting their Stormcast, is a decision I can only explain if GW doesn't plan on coming back to this for awhile.

I think they are throwing everything out ASAP as to have enough content and ideas for players and then just take it reaaaal slow... Once they get most of it out they will release units here and there just too boost sales when needed... Everyone is just waiting for the new races to be released or new race units at least.

Ghal Maraz book is much beefier on written content than the first book. That said, I actually really enjoyed the first book. The artwork was fantastic.

I do agree on them coming out fast, but I think the content is fine. I mean ill put it this way: What if instead of the pictures, there was writing. But no pictures. There would be complaints there too right? I think that there's only so many ways a battle scene can be written, so pictures in between are a nice change of pace.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree on them coming out fast, but I think the content is fine. I mean ill put it this way: What if instead of the pictures, there was writing. But no pictures. There would be complaints there too right? I think that there's only so many ways a battle scene can be written, so pictures in between are a nice change of pace.

Maybe they plan to splurg a few books fast for the two new factions, and then check how well AoS sells. If it sells well enough, they may start to expend in to the non elf , non orcs , non dwarfs with new models and books. If it doesn't sell well enough, then it ends the way mordheim did.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I do agree on them coming out fast, but I think the content is fine. I mean ill put it this way: What if instead of the pictures, there was writing. But no pictures. There would be complaints there too right? I think that there's only so many ways a battle scene can be written, so pictures in between are a nice change of pace.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree on them coming out fast, but I think the content is fine. I mean ill put it this way: What if instead of the pictures, there was writing. But no pictures. There would be complaints there too right? I think that there's only so many ways a battle scene can be written, so pictures in between are a nice change of pace.

There's an infinite way to play games. With the freedom AoS offers, there is so much more in terms of content they could of included. Pick up any RPG sourcebook and you'll see, heck even something like the "Arbitrator Campaign" section from the Necromunda: Outlanders source book shows what sort of content GW has been able to offer in the past.

I haven't had a chance to look through the second AoS book yet. If it's an improvement over the first than a small shred of hope remains. Let's hope GW can actually put together something worth the £45 price tag in the future.

I think they should have stretched out the end times a lot longer to give the people who invested in it a greater sense that they hadn't wasted their money.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I think they should have stretched out the end times a lot longer to give the people who invested in it a greater sense that they hadn't wasted their money.

Agreed. Honestly, the End Times should've run at least a year or a year and a half.

 tydrace wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I think they should have stretched out the end times a lot longer to give the people who invested in it a greater sense that they hadn't wasted their money.

Agreed. Honestly, the End Times should've run at least a year or a year and a half.

End of times was just to milk the last remaining dollars out of their fans. I'm so glad I didn't buy into it

 Chute82 wrote:

 tydrace wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I think they should have stretched out the end times a lot longer to give the people who invested in it a greater sense that they hadn't wasted their money.

Agreed. Honestly, the End Times should've run at least a year or a year and a half.

End of times was just to milk the last remaining dollars out of their fans. I'm so glad I didn't buy into it

Same. At Australian prices I'd have been pissed if I bought them only to have the game killed at the end.

The thing that annoyed me was having the new stuff as one book rather than Fluff and Rules in a 2 book set :(

 Chute82 wrote:

 tydrace wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I think they should have stretched out the end times a lot longer to give the people who invested in it a greater sense that they hadn't wasted their money.

Agreed. Honestly, the End Times should've run at least a year or a year and a half.

End of times was just to milk the last remaining dollars out of their fans. I'm so glad I didn't buy into it

Yep. And while I'm sure undead fans who bought Nagash probably got their money's worth, I doubt anyone else does. The fast pace could only be supported because each book was aimed at the players of the army it covered like a new Army Book. The big AoS books do not have that same pull in my opinion.

I agree with you, they're not good books.
There's more content, story ideas, scenario ideas, and custom missions in any codex or warhammer:armies book.

Even as a standard to themselves, the very first release should have been something akin to the "General's Compendium."

That had artwork, custom model ideas, rues for boats and sieges, terrain ideas, thematic armies, campaign rules, special terrain rules, and tons of fun scenario ideas. (along with harsh tournament rules.)

It was done fully in the theme and idea of breaking the mold for playing bog-standard games. I get what they're trying to do, but so far all the momentum has been left up to the players.

The books have been alright. Though it covers what I collect so its more useful to me too.

AoS certainly won't be a stop gap like end times. GW have put serious time and money into it. Its laughable to think otherwise no offence

When other armies get updated, books will follow. The aelfs will i imagine be a bunch of cool books with slaanesh stuff also. Dwarfs will get a series and i see undead with a series as well

The reason the books came out in such quick succession was to help build a background to the new world of AOS. They needed some material out their to give people an idea of how things were going in the realms. I wouldn't expect to see a new campaign book for awhile now.

Personally I think charging people as much as GW do for a supplement to get at that fluff was a massive mistake. As well I don't know how much of the fluff in there is related to say, the Vampires or Dark Elves whom I played in the Old World, it all looks like Sigmarines and Chaos stuff from what I have heard. Either we are missing out on fluff for a lot of other factions or GW dropped the ball on marketing it's all round fluff guide.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Personally I think charging people as much as GW do for a supplement to get at that fluff was a massive mistake. As well I don't know how much of the fluff in there is related to say, the Vampires or Dark Elves whom I played in the Old World, it all looks like Sigmarines and Chaos stuff from what I have heard. Either we are missing out on fluff for a lot of other factions or GW dropped the ball on marketing it's all round fluff guide.

From what I've seen and heard the first book was Stormcast vs Khorne WoC, which was basically an expansion to the starter box. The second book is Stormcast and Treants against Nurgle WoC and Clan Pestilens. As far as other factions go there are only small background noises which probably hints at, if not model changes, GW taking some extra time to repaint the old models in new non-Old World colors.

I agree in general with this thread that the books are disappointing however. GW has so much room for adding value, flavor, and creativity which would benefit everyone buying the books from the new players to the old. Stop filling pages with unnecessary stuff and add cool lore elements like small excerpts from the Black Library authors writing the tie-in novels which detail things the stories don't cover, such as after action reports from Stormcast commanders or outlines of battle plans. Also, make the damn books softcover and drop the price if they want to keep putting them out.

The problem i see is that not many folk are buying the books. So what little story is in the books isn't getting read by many people.

The worlds feel very generic, light on detail, big on sweeping statements. What is in the worlds except battlefields and things to fight over? Any towns? Bits of Civilization?

I suspect someong at GW decided that lack of detail was the way to go. Like lack of points. Just easier for them. And I suspect it's going to bite them in the ass pretty hard at some point.

 mikhaila wrote:
The problem i see is that not many folk are buying the books. So what little story is in the books isn't getting read by many people.

The worlds feel very generic, light on detail, big on sweeping statements. What is in the worlds except battlefields and things to fight over? Any towns? Bits of Civilization?

I suspect someong at GW decided that lack of detail was the way to go. Like lack of points. Just easier for them. And I suspect it's going to bite them in the ass pretty hard at some point.

They're actually selling pretty well in my neck of the woods (at least, the first 2, so far). IMO they would be better off printing $20 AD&D style modules, thin, softcover B&W with a story + mini campaign, minimal art. Low production cost, high volume. They can even do it the same way TSR numbered them, H1, H2, H3, etc.

But to answer your question the whole world is described as battlefields and things to fight over The only purpose for a town is... an urban map to fight over

Yeah, it's one of my biggest beefs with the new fluff (which I am open to). We had this tiny world replaced with 8 dimensions of infinite size... and yet it's all empty. Not one town or village outside of Azyrheim... All those towns and villages had lots of character in the Old World. Let's hope GW can put some character into the mortal realms as they are retaken, because at the moment there is nothing compelling to fight for.

GW have it 'right' with the big AoS books, like they had it 'right' with End Times books.

They should spam them out on limited print runs, forget about them and then print more and more, gradually increasing the price as far as the market will bear. The content is irrelevant so long as you have someone to write text and the in house artists can spam out more pictures. The finished books are emailed to China, and given a single print run.

As GW continue they will be able to better gauge exactly how many suckers will buy their latest splatbook, and thus know how many to print.

Now its started it will not stop. Many will just be half pieced together stories, some with miniatures support others just as story. Its cheap to produce, with negligible outlay of resources and will therefore maximise return which in turn means shareholders are happy and executives get a bigger bonus.

There are no other considerations, short or long term. Please do not delude yourself into thinking there needs to be any better pacing, or focus on different factions or provide any actual game framework whatsoever. The singe sole and overriding consideration is to spam out as many books as possiblefor a long as possible.

 Orlanth wrote:
GW have it 'right' with the big AoS books, like they had it 'right' with End Times books.

They should spam them out on limited print runs, forget about them and then print more and more, gradually increasing the price as far as the market will bear. The content is irrelevant so long as you have someone to write text and the in house artists can spam out more pictures. The finished books are emailed to China, and given a single print run.

As GW continue they will be able to better gauge exactly how many suckers will buy their latest splatbook, and thus know how many to print.

Now its started it will not stop. Many will just be half pieced together stories, some with miniatures support others just as story. Its cheap to produce, with negligible outlay of resources and will therefore maximise return which in turn means shareholders are happy and executives get a bigger bonus.

There are no other considerations, short or long term. Please do not delude yourself into thinking there needs to be any better pacing, or focus on different factions or provide any actual game framework whatsoever. The singe sole and overriding consideration is to spam out as many books as possiblefor a long as possible.

This thread isn't about market strategy (I'm sure they make lots of money from this model). It's about customer enjoyment. Our experiences with the books, and how they could be better for us.

We are about to have our first 'army book' so I think the pattern of book support for the game is clear. There will campaign books which will advance the storyline and provide scenarios, the army books will provide the warscrolls and the terrain books will provide terrain rules and scenarios involving the terrain. The 'free' rules provide the framework of the game and they are free and won't be updated in the near future.

This model means there is a continuing release of books to generate income most of which contain digital artwork in the case of the campaign book and not much substance by the sounds of things although Ghal Maraz seems to be an improvement.

If they aren't selling well there is one obvious explanation. No one buys into the sigmarines, sorry, sigmarites. They made a mistake in not creating a unique identity for them and they have ended up coming across as a space marine copy that many fantasy players don't want. And they aren't that interesting. They are featureless automatons in cumbersome armour and they all look samey. Compare them to the dwarfs, orcs or skaven for example.

I think the true value of the game will be realised when they update the established races like the dwarfs and elves. Thats when you know whether people have bought into the new game and setting.

I like AoS but haven't purchased a book after the first novel.

I don't want for money but I'm not paying £45 for those pretty sparse books. That's FW money, I expect FW level of detail/content.

Might be different if it contained Dwarf/Undead forces.

Hopefully they improve for those releases.

 notprop wrote:
I like AoS but haven't purchased a book after the first novel.

I don't want for money but I'm not paying £45 for those pretty sparse books. That's FW money, I expect FW level of detail/content.

Might be different if it contained Dwarf/Undead forces.

Hopefully they improve for those releases.

I would totally agree - the 40k Campaign books like Shield of Baal were want I was hoping for and the AOS version is just not very good in comparison.