Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, I'm quite excited about AoS, as I think it has a buttload of opportunities, and was wondering if it would be possible to balance purely from the "formations" for lack of a better term that are detailed in the warscrolls. I think limiting a games based on how many formations you bring would work quite well, except one issue. Some don't seem to be balanced to the others. EXAMPLE TIME!

I play Beastmen (yes, Beastmen players exist) so I'm using them for examples.

The Ungor ambush seems to be much less powerful than, say, the Bullgor stampede, but the Bullgor stampede seems to be able to fight the Ogre Beastclaw Avalanche relatively well. Here's what I propose: Giving each formation a sort of FOC. They could be labelled main (Furious Brayherd), Heavy (Bullgor Stampede) and Support (Ungor Raiders). Now, not every army has three formations, but that may change. So for instance a game could be based off of Formation count by type, so something like 1 main and 1 heavy could work, methinks. Do you guys think this could work, or am I an idiot? Also, I won't put up with mindless AoS rage, so don't pull that bs.

"Warscroll Battalions" is the official term for them. (You can find the name in the Primer along with the unique deployment options they have available).

Yeah I think it could make for a fun way to play games. You're right though that they vary in power though, and some armies don't have 3 Warscroll Battalions or ones that fall into the neat categories you made, so in the end you'll probably still need to eyeball how strong the two forces are and tweak the balance.

I don't think you can balance using battalion warscrolls. Rather than being limitations, they exist more to provide external, thematic synergies for specific collections of models. They can also be set up as one piece when placing armies on the board. There's just too much variation in the number, power, and ability of battalions for them to work as a balancing mechanism. Instead, treat them as rewards for picking thematic armies.

There's a bit of a difference between those basic battalions and those specialized ones, though. :-)

Ungor ambush is supposed to be an auxiliary battalion much more like 40k's Formations. Those base warscroll battalions that also state required heroes are fairly balanced, though. Ogres have one base battalion, Dark Elves, I think, have two or three, Beastmen have two (the bray and bullgore ones) and greenskins have about four (orcs, black orcs, goblins, forest goblins, am I missing anything?). The other ones, without heroes, seem to be more of an expansion battalion for your main force, so when you want balance, just go with the base battalions that require a hero. :-)

 Klerych wrote:
There's a bit of a difference between those basic battalions and those specialized ones, though. :-)

Ungor ambush is supposed to be an auxiliary battalion much more like 40k's Formations. Those base warscroll battalions that also state required heroes are fairly balanced, though. Ogres have one base battalion, Dark Elves, I think, have two or three, Beastmen have two (the bray and bullgore ones) and greenskins have about four (orcs, black orcs, goblins, forest goblins, am I missing anything?). The other ones, without heroes, seem to be more of an expansion battalion for your main force, so when you want balance, just go with the base battalions that require a hero. :-)

Beastmen actually have three: Bray, Bullgor, and Ungor

 LeCacty wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
There's a bit of a difference between those basic battalions and those specialized ones, though. :-)

Ungor ambush is supposed to be an auxiliary battalion much more like 40k's Formations. Those base warscroll battalions that also state required heroes are fairly balanced, though. Ogres have one base battalion, Dark Elves, I think, have two or three, Beastmen have two (the bray and bullgore ones) and greenskins have about four (orcs, black orcs, goblins, forest goblins, am I missing anything?). The other ones, without heroes, seem to be more of an expansion battalion for your main force, so when you want balance, just go with the base battalions that require a hero. :-)

Beastmen actually have three: Bray, Bullgor, and Ungor

No, no, you didn't understand my post, mate. :-) Yes, beastmen do have three Warscroll Battalions but while the Furious Brayherd and Bullgor Stampede have a balanced force and state a hero required for them, the Ungor Ambush has no Hero model in it and it looks totally different - it's not a balanced force, it's much more like the formations in 40k. Ogres are a good example too - they have one battalion with a hero and a balanced force and one with just a bunch of monsters and no heroes and that second one is meant as an expansion for a force rather than serve as a base for one. Conversely, The Empire has one "base" battalion with a General, State Troops and Greatswords and one "expansion" battalion in form of the Brotherhood of Knights which only has units and not heroes.

It's easy to understand because those "expansion" battalions don't have heroes in them and if you want to play them that way, you can't - you need a general for your army. So you can use those secondary battalions (mind - not everyone has them, orcs and dark elves only have the base ones with balanced forces) just to expand your base force with a module like that.

If you want to play with battalions (both base and the additional ones) I'd say something along these lines:
Up to two battalions per army, 100 wounds allowed, units no bigger than 50 models.

This way you need to have at least one of those regular battalions with the equivalent of 8th ed hero-core-special composition and then you can decide to either flesh it out or go for the secondary battalions like brotherhood of knights, beastclaw avalanche or ungor raider ambush. :=]

 Klerych wrote:

It's easy to understand because those "expansion" battalions don't have heroes in them and if you want to play them that way, you can't - you need a general for your army. So you can use those secondary battalions (mind - not everyone has them, orcs and dark elves only have the base ones with balanced forces) just to expand your base force with a module like that.

Actually if you are talking core rules as written you don't need a hero anywhere in your army. The general can be any model in your army, even a single skink. The only advantage to taking a hero is that it'll usually have a command ability in addition to "Inspiring Presence".

 Klerych wrote:

 LeCacty wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
There's a bit of a difference between those basic battalions and those specialized ones, though. :-)

Ungor ambush is supposed to be an auxiliary battalion much more like 40k's Formations. Those base warscroll battalions that also state required heroes are fairly balanced, though. Ogres have one base battalion, Dark Elves, I think, have two or three, Beastmen have two (the bray and bullgore ones) and greenskins have about four (orcs, black orcs, goblins, forest goblins, am I missing anything?). The other ones, without heroes, seem to be more of an expansion battalion for your main force, so when you want balance, just go with the base battalions that require a hero. :-)

Beastmen actually have three: Bray, Bullgor, and Ungor

No, no, you didn't understand my post, mate. :-) Yes, beastmen do have three Warscroll Battalions but while the Furious Brayherd and Bullgor Stampede have a balanced force and state a hero required for them, the Ungor Ambush has no Hero model in it and it looks totally different - it's not a balanced force, it's much more like the formations in 40k. Ogres are a good example too - they have one battalion with a hero and a balanced force and one with just a bunch of monsters and no heroes and that second one is meant as an expansion for a force rather than serve as a base for one. Conversely, The Empire has one "base" battalion with a General, State Troops and Greatswords and one "expansion" battalion in form of the Brotherhood of Knights which only has units and not heroes.

It's easy to understand because those "expansion" battalions don't have heroes in them and if you want to play them that way, you can't - you need a general for your army. So you can use those secondary battalions (mind - not everyone has them, orcs and dark elves only have the base ones with balanced forces) just to expand your base force with a module like that.

If you want to play with battalions (both base and the additional ones) I'd say something along these lines:
Up to two battalions per army, 100 wounds allowed, units no bigger than 50 models.

This way you need to have at least one of those regular battalions with the equivalent of 8th ed hero-core-special composition and then you can decide to either flesh it out or go for the secondary battalions like brotherhood of knights, beastclaw avalanche or ungor raider ambush. :=]

Ah, I get it. Yea that may work pretty well!