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Hello
So I now have 15 Possessed after researching just how potent these guys can be. First of all I must suggest using Mark of Khorne for a simple reason, 4 ATTACK ON THE CHARGE, 5 even if you roll for one extra attack and 1 initiative however AP3 attack isn't bad to roll either.

Picture the scene; you are going against an army, let's say Tau for instance, you have a unit of 10 Possessed with Huron, you infiltrate them near the enemies Hammerhead or Xv104, you charge and hope to roll for the AP3, you then get 40 AP3 attacks and statistically you will take out a heap of Hull Points if not completely destroy the tank or Walker. Or if you don't fancy the tanks drop them near the fire warriors, any d3 extra will do fine, charge them for 40-50 attacks and take out a unit of 20 and a few markerlights which is good for everyone

Yes they are expensive, the same as a Terminator who gets 2+ save (Invul save is not bad for the Daemon rule) and are tough as...well a Terminator but played right they can undoubtedly wreck anything they set their minds to

400+ points is the same as a deep strike Terminator Melta squad which is much tastier on the table but the greater number of attacks from the possessed on the charge is just 10/10

What do you think, do you have a secret crush on Possessed?

I picture Hurons group getting shot the FETH up for two turns because you cant charge off infiltrate.

and being next to a riptide with IA means that unit is probably dead. giving a quick FB.

(BUT i do think they are cool )

I don't know why you hope for ap 3 ahainst a riptide seeing as they have a 2+ armor...

Possessed can be decent assault units; they have durability and plenty of killing potential. The only problem is that they are overcosted and the CSM codex lacks effective delivery systems for assault units.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I don't know why you hope for ap 3 ahainst a riptide seeing as they have a 2+ armor...

Haha oh yeah I forgot about that, EXTRA ATTACK AND INITIATIVE THEN!

I want to believe.

Possessed are like all of the meq units in the csm book. Overcosted, slow and not tough enough. Being a daemon don't mean diddly when you get shot by bolters because you have no way to move them from a to b, besides from a land raider, or a land raider that falls from the sky.

Plus the "you get a random chance to be awesome" really doesn't help them out. I'd rather pay, and know exactly what I am going to get.

We can all believe.
Like Thousand Sons, I want to see so much more from them for their price and maybe just maybe the 7th Edition Codex will change these niggles


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hate how such good units became so obsolete, against Eldar or Tau though, no Chaos Space Marine list outside of a Nurgle cheese list can even hope to win

So it is what it is and I just hope that my 15 Possessed will do me proud if not now then in the near updated future

If you're going Mark of khorne, take daemonkin possessed then you get furious charge as well.
Stick em in an allied dreadclaw. Buddy them with warlord Kharn or a Herald to get hatred. Maybe a sorcerer to stop them getting eaten.
Now you have a unit that can punch out anything.

They are pretty steep, even playing a slaughter cult you have to pay the 150 point tax to bring a squad of them..i've had random luck with them tearing units up but for the most part they are just a 150 point tax to bring a cult..then they roam the back field getting objectives

Yeah they are expensive I guess. But I think worth it. A change I would like to see is rather than having d3 random boost to have a list of purchasable extras that allow things like Shred or Fleshbane and other special rules

hell if they could belch a template flamer time assult weapon, might get them in the right direction even..the whole bs skill with no weapon makes zero sense

Why doesn't it make sense?

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Possessed can be decent assault units; they have durability

They gain a 5++ over CSM, for twice the cost.

They are extremely fragile.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Possessed can be decent assault units; they have durability

They gain a 5++ over CSM, for twice the cost.

They are extremely fragile.

4++ with Tzeentch but nothing else other than

I'm a firm believer that the possessed change from coming standard with power weapons, to a D3 table of garbage was one of if not the singular defining moment within most people's CSM history which made us hate them as an army.

We have chart after chart after bloody mini chart within the Chaos faction, which by pure luck can make expensive units amazing, or simply fething terrible. I know of no other dex that is so heavily taxed by the stars and alignment of the planets and possible presidential candidates than Chaos as a faction.

You get armies like Tau, Eldar, they function by vastly ignoring entire portions of the game and gaining rules that literally help them TO ignore them (Stuck in combat? No problem! HITANDRUN MOTHER fethers!) and lets not forget about how brutally over costed most of the dex is. Right now everything in the dex can be reduced. Forgefiends, can be reduced to 140 points and the Ectoplasma Cannons should only be 10 points for their gakky ass range. Wtf kind if garbage is a 24" plasma cannon? Thanks GW!

Ashiraya wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Possessed can be decent assault units; they have durability

They gain a 5++ over CSM, for twice the cost.

They are extremely fragile.

A 5++ is a lot better than nothing against AP3 out in the open or in CC. The reason Possessed aren't really effective is because they are overcosted for what they bring to the table.

GoliothOnline wrote:I'm a firm believer that the possessed change from coming standard with power weapons, to a D3 table of garbage was one of if not the singular defining moment within most people's CSM history which made us hate them as an army.

We have chart after chart after bloody mini chart within the Chaos faction, which by pure luck can make expensive units amazing, or simply fething terrible. I know of no other dex that is so heavily taxed by the stars and alignment of the planets and possible presidential candidates than Chaos as a faction.

You get armies like Tau, Eldar, they function by vastly ignoring entire portions of the game and gaining rules that literally help them TO ignore them (Stuck in combat? No problem! HITANDRUN MOTHER fethers!) and lets not forget about how brutally over costed most of the dex is. Right now everything in the dex can be reduced. Forgefiends, can be reduced to 140 points and the Ectoplasma Cannons should only be 10 points for their gakky ass range. Wtf kind if garbage is a 24" plasma cannon? Thanks GW!

I dunno. A S8 plasma cannon may not be worth 25 points, but it does mean that nothing wants to get within 24" of that model.

Ideally, what Possessed need are a price drop. I'd also ditch the chart, and just give them Fleet and let them re-roll to wound in CC, but that's more subjective.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

A 5++ is a lot better than nothing against AP3 out in the open or in CC. The reason Possessed aren't really effective is because they are overcosted for what they bring to the table.

And yet CSM are still better there, because 2 wounds is better than 1.

nareik wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?

they don't require it, it would be like giving a leman russ weapon skill..they have no guns, no options to have guns..and please don't bring up the quad gun thing, cause if your bringing possessed to man guns, then you my as well run cultists as AA

Crimson Heretic wrote:

nareik wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?

they don't require it, it would be like giving a leman russ weapon skill..they have no guns, no options to have guns..and please don't bring up the quad gun thing, cause if your bringing possessed to man guns, then you my as well run cultists as AA

Having a BS has plenty of uses on a model with no weapons. For one they are a good counter assault unit and so its worth sitting them back and manning a gun emplacement or emplaced gun (which they are better at doing then cultists at because they are BS4). Also having BS4 meaning that they can shot an opponent's gun emplacement or emplaced gun when they get their to assault their unit in their back field. Also Possessed are still a CSM and thus still have ballistic training. Fluff wise just because they dropped their bolter doesn't mean they completely forgot how to shoot a gun at all.

Also giving a Leman Russ a WS stat would totally be useful. In 7ed vehicles are treated as having WS1 when units roll close combat attacks against them. So if you gave a Leman Russ WS3 means that units that are WS3 or less would be hitting it on a 4+ instead of 3+ like a normal vehicle.

Crimson Heretic wrote:

nareik wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?

they don't require it, it would be like giving a leman russ weapon skill..they have no guns, no options to have guns..and please don't bring up the quad gun thing, cause if your bringing possessed to man guns, then you my as well run cultists as AA

Just because they 'don't require' BS doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for them to have it. They are still chaos space marines, so still good shots! I doubt they pay any premium for having a BS.

What happens when if GW add a 'Magic Jordan' psychic power to 40k where a mini warp rift opens up and a vortex grenade lands in the hand of the target model? The unit would have to take a BS test to slam dunk the vortex grenade back through the mini warp rift before it goes off and creates a much bigger disturbance!

Possessed should be able to have a chance at passing BS tests!

But seriously, they obviously have skill with ballistic weapons, even if they generally don't use them, so why not give them a BS when there is pretty much no opportunity cost to it? GW have always stated out ranged weapon skills to units regardless of equipment.

I think it would make less sense for possessed NOT to have a BS!

Indeed. They're still marines (ish) so could - for example - man a quad-gun in an emergency if so inclined.

Possessed as they stand aren't fantastic because you pay so damn much for them. They do have their uses, but in three specific cases:

1) Daemonkin practically require possessed. As a reward, Daemon becomes Daemon Of Khorne, throwing in Furious Charge as a free bonus, and granting Blood For The Blood God, meaning even getting the unit killed isn't necessarily a bad thing. Stacked up right, Blood For The Blood God, Daemon Of Khorne and The Mark Of Khorne means a daemonkin possessed slams into an enemy squad with 5 strength 6 attacks each....

2) In a Crimson Slaughter force, Possessed alter dramatically - firstly, they're troops, meaning Objective Secured in a Combined Arms Detachment or Allied Detachment. Secondly, Slaves To The Voices strips away a lot of their fighting power but makes it a lot easier to get them to the enemy (beasts/shrouded/3++ save), even if they achieve less once they arrive. Finally, Prophet Of The Voices means you can make one character in your army possessed, which allows for a terminator-armoured lord leading a possessed squad and/or a chaos sorceror with the daemon rule, allowing (more or less) safe use of malefic daemonology.

3) Gal Vorbak. The Heresy-era version of possessed which are just better in every concievable way.Sadly there is (as yet) no way to make them troops - although we may yet get Argel Tal for the Word Bearers, who will probably do just that.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:

nareik wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?

they don't require it, it would be like giving a leman russ weapon skill..they have no guns, no options to have guns..and please don't bring up the quad gun thing, cause if your bringing possessed to man guns, then you my as well run cultists as AA

Having a BS has plenty of uses on a model with no weapons. For one they are a good counter assault unit and so its worth sitting them back and manning a gun emplacement or emplaced gun (which they are better at doing then cultists at because they are BS4). Also having BS4 meaning that they can shot an opponent's gun emplacement or emplaced gun when they get their to assault their unit in their back field. Also Possessed are still a CSM and thus still have ballistic training. Fluff wise just because they dropped their bolter doesn't mean they completely forgot how to shoot a gun at all.

Also giving a Leman Russ a WS stat would totally be useful. In 7ed vehicles are treated as having WS1 when units roll close combat attacks against them. So if you gave a Leman Russ WS3 means that units that are WS3 or less would be hitting it on a 4+ instead of 3+ like a normal vehicle.

Remember that Possessed are, well, Possessed. The Marine is not in control, the Daemon is. And as we see from the Daemon codex, Daemons are generally BS3. Hell, even the Heresy-era Gal Vorbak (who are what Possessed should have been, in models and rules) are BS3, even though they co-exist with the Daemon instead of being replaced.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:

nareik wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?

they don't require it, it would be like giving a leman russ weapon skill..they have no guns, no options to have guns..and please don't bring up the quad gun thing, cause if your bringing possessed to man guns, then you my as well run cultists as AA

Having a BS has plenty of uses on a model with no weapons. For one they are a good counter assault unit and so its worth sitting them back and manning a gun emplacement or emplaced gun (which they are better at doing then cultists at because they are BS4). Also having BS4 meaning that they can shot an opponent's gun emplacement or emplaced gun when they get their to assault their unit in their back field. Also Possessed are still a CSM and thus still have ballistic training. Fluff wise just because they dropped their bolter doesn't mean they completely forgot how to shoot a gun at all.

Also giving a Leman Russ a WS stat would totally be useful. In 7ed vehicles are treated as having WS1 when units roll close combat attacks against them. So if you gave a Leman Russ WS3 means that units that are WS3 or less would be hitting it on a 4+ instead of 3+ like a normal vehicle.

my point was that, more then likely players are paying a premium for bs4 for nothing...my group dosen't use quad guns so i really don't have a sense of your strategy idea. I'm trying to see ways to trim the cost down..as posted its a possessed, if the marine was 100% in control then why abandon your bolter? a point reduction or some sort of gimmick would make the possessed a little more appeaing..i run them because i generally run a slaughter cult...i don't hate them, i just have a hard time getting them to find their role on the field. You pretty much play them like ork boyz if your going for a combat role..which is like taking your brand new lambo to a demolition derby(point wise)..and its a waste of 150 points to have them humping objectives when i can field cultists for pennys on the dollar to do that.

Why do you think players are paying a premium for bs4?

@Ashiraya oh good point on daemon bs. I suppose there is further support for the bs3 argument that vehicles with the DP upgrade in the CSM codex are also BS3. In the case of the upgrade the daemon has completely replaced the crew, but for the heldrake the pilot isn't replaced, he is simply subsumed by the daemon, which essentially makes him a possessed in a plane, so I think the bs3 heldrake is a good argument for bs3 possessed.

Fluffwise I see no reason for BS0 possessed, neither gameplay wise. Balance wise, I don't think their BS is even taken into account since they rarely shoot (big opportunity cost) and there are no BS tests in game, as far as I know (yet!).

I really don't think Bs4 is the reason for possessed's 'overpricing'.

nareik wrote:
Why do you think players are paying a premium for bs4?

@Ashiraya oh good point on daemon bs. I suppose there is further support for the bs3 argument that vehicles with the DP upgrade in the CSM codex are also BS3. In the case of the upgrade the daemon has completely replaced the crew, but for the heldrake the pilot isn't replaced, he is simply subsumed by the daemon, which essentially makes him a possessed in a plane, so I think the bs3 heldrake is a good argument for bs3 possessed.

Fluffwise I see no reason for BS0 possessed, neither gameplay wise. Balance wise, I don't think their BS is even taken into account since they rarely shoot (big opportunity cost) and there are no BS tests in game, as far as I know (yet!).

I really don't think Bs4 is the reason for possessed's 'overpricing'.

The stat line has to factor into the cost of a unit or fig, thats like saying the size of your engine has little to do with the value of your vehicle..thus players are paying for a useless stat line

Crimson Heretic wrote:

nareik wrote:
Why do you think players are paying a premium for bs4?

@Ashiraya oh good point on daemon bs. I suppose there is further support for the bs3 argument that vehicles with the DP upgrade in the CSM codex are also BS3. In the case of the upgrade the daemon has completely replaced the crew, but for the heldrake the pilot isn't replaced, he is simply subsumed by the daemon, which essentially makes him a possessed in a plane, so I think the bs3 heldrake is a good argument for bs3 possessed.

Fluffwise I see no reason for BS0 possessed, neither gameplay wise. Balance wise, I don't think their BS is even taken into account since they rarely shoot (big opportunity cost) and there are no BS tests in game, as far as I know (yet!).

I really don't think Bs4 is the reason for possessed's 'overpricing'.

The stat line has to factor into the cost of a unit or fig, thats like saying the size of your engine has little to do with the value of your vehicle..thus players are paying for a useless stat line

You're right, it factored into the cost be increasing it by 0 pts.