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Relapse wrote: Just out of curiosity, you have alluded to yourself going through gas mask training. Is this true, and if so, what was it? Without a doubt Sikhs are some serious badasses who anyone would do well to have on their side, but I am going to agree with Ghaz and Jihadin that beards are going to mess up a seal eventually. I won't say it'll be 100%, but I wouldn't bet my life on it not making a difference.
Like others in this thread, I have trained with gas masks while clean shaven, which is part of my point. Everyone I have ever heard claim that you can't achieve a good seal with a gas mask has only ever trained while clean shaven. Then we have three Sikh's currently serving in the military who have actually trained with beards and say they can achieve a good seal, combined with literally thousands of Sikh soldiers in the Indian and British armies from WWI until the present day who have trained with gas masks. It's not like the British and Indian armies are just a bunch of scrubs who are unaware or don't care about chemical threats. I find it hard to believe that they would employ thousands of Sikh soldiers with beards with the attitude of "Well, you can't get a good seal on your gas mask with a beard but, whatever! Best of luck to you!"
motyak wrote: You guys better start emailing the British, Indian and all other armies with Sikh members, they dont know they danger they've put those soldiers, and the soldiers around them, in by allowing these bearded menaces into the field!
motyak wrote: You guys better start emailing the British, Indian and all other armies with Sikh members, they dont know they danger they've put those soldiers, and the soldiers around them, in by allowing these bearded menaces into the field!
Not to mention the danger the OpFor is put in...
Haha no one gives a gak about opfor, they get to cruise on ex something fierce
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 20:55:55
BrotherGecko wrote: Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
1: Spec Ops don't all grow beards in country. Just some do and only for specific reasons such as blending in with local populace. Their is always the "cool guy" who thinks he can get away with it but usually he gets his head bashed in a few times and stops mucking about.
2: Sikh's are fine to keep beards and Turbans as "Non-Deployables" thats fine, except in the USMC if you are not deployable you will be separated.
3: Your idea of Promasks and making them pay for it is actually a really great Idea, I have never had to work with that gas mask so i can't tell you anything about it, but if it works with beards all for it. Maybe make them only pay for a small portion of it. Military members are paid WELL below the poverty line.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
CALGARY, Alberta, September 2, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) -- A Calgary bus driver who is a faithful Christian says he will refuse to drive a city bus decked out by his employer to promote the September 6 Gay Pride Parade, even if it means losing his job.
“I can’t be a part of promoting something that I believe strongly does not represent my beliefs. So, I would ultimately get fired,” said Jesse Rau, a Calgary Transit Authority employee, to NewsTalk 770.
Last week Calgary Transit unveiled a “Pride Bus” it had specially decorated with a rainbow paint job to promote the city’s annual Calgary Pride Festival. A large banner on the side of the bus states: “Ride with Pride” and provides the dates for the celebration of homosexuality, something that Christians believe is a deviation from God’s plan for human sexuality.
"As a Christian I believe in the Bible as being the Word of God, and it teaches that sexual immorality is sin. I don't want to have any part in promoting behaviors and lifestyles that put people in more trouble with God than they already are, and that create more brokenness and despair in their lives," Rau said.
Rau, who is married with a family, said that as a Christian he cannot support a lifestyle that God does not condone. He said that Calgary Transit is promoting a “very radical sexual movement” with the ‘Pride bus’ and is now pushing these values on its employees by asking them to drive the bus.
“Calgary transit tells us to focus on our jobs and not to put [forward] our own agenda, and now this belief system is being pushed on me,” he said.
Rau, who has been on the job for less than a year and is still in a period of probation, fears that staying true to his Christian beliefs will ultimately cost him his job.
“Unfortunately, we live in a culture where if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, the accusation is that you hate the person. I have a family to support and I am very concerned about losing the job. [Being a city bus driver is] something I’m very proud to be a part of, but when it goes against the most important things I stand for, or if I’m asked to compromise in such a big way for what I believe to be right, then I have to lose my job,” he said.
The ‘Pride bus’ will be sent on every route in the city during the 10-day Gay Pride event that began Friday, and also in the parade through downtown Calgary.
“We're hoping to celebrate the diversity that is Calgary,” Doug Morgan, director of Calgary Transit, told reporters. “We want to celebrate our customers . . . and that our doors are open to everyone . . . recognizing Calgary is changing and we want to be part of that.”
So far, Calgary Transit has decided to remain silent on what will become of Rau, with City Manager Feff Fielding going as far as calling the story a "non-issue."
But earlier this week Rau accused the transit service of attempting to silence him by bringing up what he said were false accusations about his driving record.
"I totally feel absolutely threatened, but I'm sick of dodging and ducking this issue," he said standing in front of Calgary City Hall on Monday along with his wife.
Rau said that his employer notified him that over the weekend a complaint about him texting while driving had been filed against him. If true, he would be immediately fired.
"It's an absolutely false accusation," he told reporters, adding that video surveillance would prove his innocence. "My suspicion would be that someone who is a part of Calgary Transit, [someone there] in power, that is upset about [me] raining on this parade, would like to sabotage me.”
Despite being mocked by the city’s radio show hosts for standing by his Christian principles, Rau is finding support from Christian groups around the country.
Concerned Christians of Canada say Calgary transit is using what it calls “questionable tactics” against a Christian employee.
“After a year of working for Calgary Transit, Jesse Rau, a City Transit employee with a previously spotless employment record, has suddenly faced pressure and false accusations after speaking out against the new sacred cow, the ‘pride bus.’ Within the last month Rau has suddenly had a warning from the powers that be at the City Transit indicating that he'd better be silent about his beliefs and make no more trouble in the media if he wanted to keep his job,” the group stated on its website.
As for Rau, he is putting his trust in God. “We don't kill for our faith, we die for it. Proverbs 29:25 - The fear of man brings a snare, But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe,” he posted on Facebook yesterday.
This is incredibly stupid. Why not just get a willing driver to do it?
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
BrotherGecko wrote: Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
1: Spec Ops don't all grow beards in country. Just some do and only for specific reasons such as blending in with local populace. Their is always the "cool guy" who thinks he can get away with it but usually he gets his head bashed in a few times and stops mucking about.
2: Sikh's are fine to keep beards and Turbans as "Non-Deployables" thats fine, except in the USMC if you are not deployable you will be separated.
3: Your idea of Promasks and making them pay for it is actually a really great Idea, I have never had to work with that gas mask so i can't tell you anything about it, but if it works with beards all for it. Maybe make them only pay for a small portion of it. Military members are paid WELL below the poverty line.
Military members aren't paid below the poverty line. A brand new E-1 grosses 18,550 just in base pay with no BAH, no special pay, or anything. They also get free housing (barracks), free food (DFAC), and free healthcare (Tricare). That doesn't include the tons of other benefits like the GI bill, VA benefits, PX access, etc. The current poverty line is 23,282 for a family of four. The poverty threshold for a single individual is 11,720 dollars.
You can make an argument that military members should be paid more, but they aren't paid below the poverty line.
BrotherGecko wrote: Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
1: Spec Ops don't all grow beards in country. Just some do and only for specific reasons such as blending in with local populace. Their is always the "cool guy" who thinks he can get away with it but usually he gets his head bashed in a few times and stops mucking about.
2: Sikh's are fine to keep beards and Turbans as "Non-Deployables" thats fine, except in the USMC if you are not deployable you will be separated.
3: Your idea of Promasks and making them pay for it is actually a really great Idea, I have never had to work with that gas mask so i can't tell you anything about it, but if it works with beards all for it. Maybe make them only pay for a small portion of it. Military members are paid WELL below the poverty line.
Military members aren't paid below the poverty line. A brand new E-1 grosses 18,550 just in base pay with no BAH, no special pay, or anything. They also get free housing (barracks), free food (DFAC), and free healthcare (Tricare). That doesn't include the tons of other benefits like the GI bill, VA benefits, PX access, etc. The current poverty line is 23,282 for a family of four. The poverty threshold for a single individual is 11,720 dollars.
You can make an argument that military members should be paid more, but they aren't paid below the poverty line.
The free healthcare is pretty important, from what I understand as a foreigner.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
Nah, that article kind of glossed over it. I read about this somewhere else a few days ago where it was much more clear that he was playing pretend, because of course making up a fun story in your head about how brave and principled you are in the face of hypothetical oppression makes you feel good.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
BrotherGecko wrote: Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
1: Spec Ops don't all grow beards in country. Just some do and only for specific reasons such as blending in with local populace. Their is always the "cool guy" who thinks he can get away with it but usually he gets his head bashed in a few times and stops mucking about.
2: Sikh's are fine to keep beards and Turbans as "Non-Deployables" thats fine, except in the USMC if you are not deployable you will be separated.
3: Your idea of Promasks and making them pay for it is actually a really great Idea, I have never had to work with that gas mask so i can't tell you anything about it, but if it works with beards all for it. Maybe make them only pay for a small portion of it. Military members are paid WELL below the poverty line.
Military members aren't paid below the poverty line. A brand new E-1 grosses 18,550 just in base pay with no BAH, no special pay, or anything. They also get free housing (barracks), free food (DFAC), and free healthcare (Tricare). That doesn't include the tons of other benefits like the GI bill, VA benefits, PX access, etc. The current poverty line is 23,282 for a family of four. The poverty threshold for a single individual is 11,720 dollars.
You can make an argument that military members should be paid more, but they aren't paid below the poverty line.
Your right I apologize, What I should have said was that they qualify for food stamps, As an E-4 and my Wife as an E-4 we qualified for food stamps. The DFAC is not free, it is deducted from your paycheck, so its free in the sense that you never have to give money to them directly, but your still paying for it.
And Tricare apparently is no longer free either. I have about 4-5 medical bills for my wife (She is still active Duty) that would disagree with that statement. Also when it was free it was so sub par that it bordered on the insulting. I had a broken ankle that got misdiagnosed as a sprained ankle and didn't get it correctly diagnosed for 3 years. After that I had to have surgery where the naval surgeon Fethed up and now I have a limp for the rest of my life. AND Ironically, I just got back from the Miami VA today where the podiatrist informed me that the naval surgeons didn't even do the job they were supposed to do so I have to go get more MRI's and probably another round of Surgery. So yeah feth that nonsense.
GI Bill is wonderful though so there is that.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
BrotherGecko wrote: Reality is for at least the US military, if having a beard was such a huge threat to the personnel's life SpecOps wouldn't be allowed to grow them.
Also I know of at least 1 Sikh (not personally) in the Army and he gets by fine as a non deployable. If I remember right he is a surgeon, which is something that doesn't need to be front line.
Or you know issue them ProMasks that can be used with beards. Make it available only with religious exemption to keep logistics down. Or require the individual to pay for the equipment out of their pay, like what you do with uniforms.
1: Spec Ops don't all grow beards in country. Just some do and only for specific reasons such as blending in with local populace. Their is always the "cool guy" who thinks he can get away with it but usually he gets his head bashed in a few times and stops mucking about.
2: Sikh's are fine to keep beards and Turbans as "Non-Deployables" thats fine, except in the USMC if you are not deployable you will be separated.
3: Your idea of Promasks and making them pay for it is actually a really great Idea, I have never had to work with that gas mask so i can't tell you anything about it, but if it works with beards all for it. Maybe make them only pay for a small portion of it. Military members are paid WELL below the poverty line.
Military members aren't paid below the poverty line. A brand new E-1 grosses 18,550 just in base pay with no BAH, no special pay, or anything. They also get free housing (barracks), free food (DFAC), and free healthcare (Tricare). That doesn't include the tons of other benefits like the GI bill, VA benefits, PX access, etc. The current poverty line is 23,282 for a family of four. The poverty threshold for a single individual is 11,720 dollars.
You can make an argument that military members should be paid more, but they aren't paid below the poverty line.
Your right I apologize, What I should have said was that they qualify for food stamps, As an E-4 and my Wife as an E-4 we qualified for food stamps. The DFAC is not free, it is deducted from your paycheck, so its free in the sense that you never have to give money to them directly, but your still paying for it.
And Tricare apparently is no longer free either. I have about 4-5 medical bills for my wife (She is still active Duty) that would disagree with that statement. Also when it was free it was so sub par that it bordered on the insulting. I had a broken ankle that got misdiagnosed as a sprained ankle and didn't get it correctly diagnosed for 3 years. After that I had to have surgery where the naval surgeon Fethed up and now I have a limp for the rest of my life. AND Ironically, I just got back from the Miami VA today where the podiatrist informed me that the naval surgeons didn't even do the job they were supposed to do so I have to go get more MRI's and probably another round of Surgery. So yeah feth that nonsense.
GI Bill is wonderful though so there is that.
If you are required to eat at the DFAC, your BAS is deducted from your paycheck, yes. If you are/were being deducted more than your BAS, you should go to your finance or S1 section and talk to them. I didn't include BAS in my initial post because it's free food. They pay your more if you don't have to or can't eat at the chow hall. You get this handy-dandy meal card and can eat there all the time instead. Tricare Prime covers all "medically necessary and considered proven" care. I don't know the nature of your medical bills so I won't comment on whether or not they should be covered.
I just get tired of people (espeically vets) crying about how little they are compensated when the average military member makes as much or more than the average American when you consider total compensation. The fact that you qualify for food stamps because of how much you "make" is a cop-out because I know how much an E1-E5 makes because I was one before I went warrant officer. Nowhere else in America will you be provided with housing, work clothes, healthcare, mental health services, religious counseling, tax free shopping, free fitness facilities, dental care, and 30 days of paid vacation a year as an 18 year old kid with nothing but a high school diploma and 6 months experience at Arby's. The fact that you AND your wife were both E-4s (I'm assuming with at least 2 years in service each) would mean you'd be pushing close to 50,000k a year base pay between the two of you without considering BAH or anything else.
Ghaazkuul, maybe you got screwed. It happens. Far more often, I find vets complaining about their pay because they bought a BMW at 23% interest straight out of boot and they have no idea how to manage their money. Seriously, if there is one thing I would incorporate into boot camp, it's a 12 hour block on how to not waste your paycheck. Trust me, I've been there and I did that.
If you are required to eat at the DFAC, your BAS is deducted from your paycheck, yes. If you are/were being deducted more than your BAS, you should go to your finance or S1 section and talk to them. I didn't include BAS in my initial post because it's free food. They pay your more if you don't have to or can't eat at the chow hall. You get this handy-dandy meal card and can eat there all the time instead. Tricare Prime covers all "medically necessary and considered proven" care. I don't know the nature of your medical bills so I won't comment on whether or not they should be covered.
I just get tired of people (espeically vets) crying about how little they are compensated when the average military member makes as much or more than the average American when you consider total compensation. The fact that you qualify for food stamps because of how much you "make" is a cop-out because I know how much an E1-E5 makes because I was one before I went warrant officer. Nowhere else in America will you be provided with housing, work clothes, healthcare, mental health services, religious counseling, tax free shopping, free fitness facilities, dental care, and 30 days of paid vacation a year as an 18 year old kid with nothing but a high school diploma and 6 months experience at Arby's. The fact that you AND your wife were both E-4s (I'm assuming with at least 2 years in service each) would mean you'd be pushing close to 50,000k a year base pay between the two of you without considering BAH or anything else.
Ghaazkuul, maybe you got screwed. It happens. Far more often, I find vets complaining about their pay because they bought a BMW at 23% interest straight out of boot and they have no idea how to manage their money. Seriously, if there is one thing I would incorporate into boot camp, it's a 12 hour block on how to not waste your paycheck. Trust me, I've been there and I did that.
I had a LCpl who had to work a 12 hour shift where he was not allowed to leave his post even for meals. It took 4 months for us to get his BAS to him and he did not get reimbursed for the hundreds of meals he had to pay for that he never ate because of his work.
The things my wife is being charged for is the birth of our son and regular medicine/blood testing that allows my wife to live. While the baby might not be necessary I thin the life sustaining medicine/blood tests would qualify but according to TRICARE nope.
Also, the Military does not provide you with work clothes, what they do give you is $400 a year to replace your damaged uniforms. And unless your a NHL level Skater you generally go through 2-4 pairs of cammies a year, 1 pair of boots, usually 1-4 Covers depending on use/luck. And thats not even getting into the more expensive things like Dress uniforms. Very few people are the same size as they were in boot camp which usually means you will be forced to buy at least one new dress blue uniform which costs around $350 for the average quality stuff and A LOT MORE for good quality such as the Vinyl Covers which are $70-110 depending on Brand and Quality of the Vinyl. So those "Free Work Clothes" usually cost me about 200-400 a year. And jesus I forgot, I had to have my medals mounted for my last ball...that was another $100+ because they decided to spring a surprise inspection on us and we had to have them done ASAP. Ohh and lets not forget that all Dress uniforms HAVE to be Dry cleaned or they are ruined so you spend a fair amount of money each year getting uniforms ready for inspection, and of course the random alterations because you put on some muscle mass. And lastly on the subject of clothing allowance, if you so much as looked at anything dirty you had to replace your blouse because nothing ever comes out of that fabric......ever.
Last thing I will harp on is the Free Health Care. You get what you pay for. Simple as that, and since you don't pay for it, you don't get it. Just in the battalion I was in we had a marine with steel rods in his collar bone from breaking it, these were supposed to be removed after the bone had time to knit....and they never were because medical lost his records and refused to believe him he had a rod in his collar bone. We had a Marine with a broken foot and TRICARE literally gave him Motrin and told him to suck it up (didn't do XRays because that would have been smart) eventually that marine was MEDSEPPEd because his foot became a ruinous mess of bone/scar tissue. Lets see, we had another guy get injected with the Yellow fever vaccine 4 times in the space of 3 weeks because they kept losing his shot paper work. We had the incident I mentioned about my ankle. We had several dozen marines deploy to afghanistan without Glasses of all things because the TRICARE/Navy medicine couldn't be bothered to get them glasses. We had some pretty horrific things happen beyond that which I wont get into but the point is that Free healthcare isn't a selling point for the military, its one horror story after another.
Ohh and I enlisted at 24, I was smart enough not to buy a new car/house with ridiculously high interest rates. (I eventually had to buy a used Van for my growing family, but i got it at 3.8% through Navy federal)
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
Dude, sounds like your on base health care is horrible then. 14 years in the Army and I've never had to pay for vital medicine to keep me or my loved ones alive. I've also never had a soldier that I know of break a foot and told to "suck it up."
I've had broken bones, an ex-wife that needed extensive psychiatric counseling, dudes with shrapnel in them from Iraq etc etc. Never had a problem with Tricare prime. You're experience is certainly different than mine. Maybe you should come over to the Army where the health care specialists can actual spell the word doctor. I'm not joking, that sounds like a) dereliction of duty, b) fraud waste and abuse, and c) malpractice. Seriously, call your IG with that gak because malpractice is still malpractice, even in the Marine Corps.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote: Dude, sounds like your on base health care is horrible then. 14 years in the Army and I've never had to pay for vital medicine to keep me or my loved ones alive. I've also never had a soldier that I know of break a foot and told to "suck it up."
I've had broken bones, an ex-wife that needed extensive psychiatric counseling, dudes with shrapnel in them from Iraq etc etc. Never had a problem with Tricare prime. You're experience is certainly different than mine. Maybe you should come over to the Army where the health care specialists can actual spell the word doctor. I'm not joking, that sounds like a) dereliction of duty, b) fraud waste and abuse, and c) malpractice. Seriously, call your IG with that gak because malpractice is still malpractice, even in the Marine Corps.
Well #1 im out of the Marines now so its a moot point. However, I did find out that the only thing I can do is file a complaint with the IG about the doctors in question, which I did. You are not allowed to sue for Malpractice in the military, probably because they have a hard enough time trying to recruit doctors as is.
Also, my personal favorite with military medicine is the "Doctor" referring to himself as "Doctor" even though he is usually at most a physicians assistant or sometimes just a nurse.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders